Is 3770K's core #3 on a caffeine rush?

HondaCop

Member
Aug 4, 2012
42
0
0
Is it normal for core #3 to always be the one with the highest temps on full load? On average, core #3 is about 5C higher than the rest of the cores. Just wondering if it's normal or my 3770K is just acting weird... You know, I'm still have 3 weeks left on my Amazon 30 day return warranty, so I want to make sure it doesn't go south on me before then.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Its normal. Specially core 2 and 3. Since they have other cores as neighbours.

 

HondaCop

Member
Aug 4, 2012
42
0
0
Oh wow, that makes sense... Coincidently, I was looking at AIDA64's statistics and the two lowest average temps belong to cores 1 and 4. hahaha

Looking at that pic of the cpu, I really wished Intel would make a NON-iGPU version of the i7-3770K. Reminds me of Microsoft trying to shove IE down our throats... If you are releasing a cpu with a K designation for overclockers, I would believe the great majority of overclockers use discrete videocards anyway.
 
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HondaCop

Member
Aug 4, 2012
42
0
0
Very interesting, IDC... So it's because it's jammed between two-three other cores or for some other reason? Give it to me in laymen's terms. haha
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,815
2
81
The die is non-symmetric which makes the cooling of the cores non-symmetric.

Very interesting, IDC... So it's because it's jammed between two-three other cores or for some other reason? Give it to me in laymen's terms. haha

Excuse me for nicking your diagram IDC.

What it is calling "Dark" silicon are the area that do less work (especially since if you are running discrete graphics and the iGPU is off), these areas are cooler than the active cores. For data to get across the chip there have to be traces between the various parts, and these are capable of carrying heat as well as data. As a result cores 1 and 4 (or 0 and 3 if you prefer), are capable of dissipating heat to the cooler silicon to their left/right respectively. Core 3 doesn't really have this option, so almost all the heat has to go straight up through the IHS.

(cache would be slightly cooler wouldn't it IDC? Some heat will also be dissipated out the back of the socket)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
Very interesting, IDC... So it's because it's jammed between two-three other cores or for some other reason? Give it to me in laymen's terms. haha

Yep, the dude sitting in the middle seat on the airplane is going to be hotter and less comfortable than the guys who get the window seat, but the guy with the aisle seat gets the coolest and most comfortable seat.
 

HondaCop

Member
Aug 4, 2012
42
0
0
Yep, the dude sitting in the middle seat on the airplane is going to be hotter and less comfortable than the guys who get the window seat, but the guy with the aisle seat gets the coolest and most comfortable seat.

LMAO Great analogy... Thanks for explaining.
 

maniac5999

Senior member
Dec 30, 2009
498
2
81
I've got a question, why would core 3 be noticably warmer than core 2? They both have cores on either side of them
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
I've got a question, why would core 3 be noticably warmer than core 2? They both have cores on either side of them

The cores on either side of them are not the same temp themselves because on either side of those cores are different non-core stuff.

One side has the iGPU while the other has the system agent and other I/O circuits.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
I've got a question, why would core 3 be noticably warmer than core 2? They both have cores on either side of them

In my case they aren't significantly different. 1&2 are close to equal and 0&3 are close to equal.

Interestingly, plugging a monitor into the onboard graphics causes the idle temperature of core0 to go up by around 2c.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
From IDCs pic, 12 degrees difference is too much for heat transfer through dark silicon. I could see a couple of degrees difference due to that, but 12 degrees is simple too much. Either the middle two cores doing more work (at the time the pic was taken) or there is a mess of copper interconnects directly bellow the two cores that elevates the temperature in that region more.

5 degrees difference between cores is normal.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
From IDCs pic, 12 degrees difference is too much for heat transfer through dark silicon. I could see a couple of degrees difference due to that, but 12 degrees is simple too much. Either the middle two cores doing more work (at the time the pic was taken) or there is a mess of copper interconnects directly bellow the two cores that elevates the temperature in that region more.

5 degrees difference between cores is normal.

That was under LinX, my usual test regiment, albeit at 5GHz with lapped H100 and all that, so the cooling on Core0 was definitely maximized. The thermal gradient is real.

If I back off the clocks, go down to stock 3.4GHz, and slap on the stock Intel HSF then I get the same trend but the delta between coolest and warmest core is markedly lessened: (87, 91, 93, and 89°C)

 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Yep, the dude sitting in the middle seat on the airplane is going to be hotter and less comfortable than the guys who get the window seat, but the guy with the aisle seat gets the coolest and most comfortable seat.


Errr, I've taken many flights where the window seat is frigid, so no
 

graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
Very interesting hypothesis. It is consistent with my load temp readings as well.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
Excuse me for nicking your diagram IDC.

What it is calling "Dark" silicon are the area that do less work (especially since if you are running discrete graphics and the iGPU is off), these areas are cooler than the active cores. For data to get across the chip there have to be traces between the various parts, and these are capable of carrying heat as well as data. As a result cores 1 and 4 (or 0 and 3 if you prefer), are capable of dissipating heat to the cooler silicon to their left/right respectively. Core 3 doesn't really have this option, so almost all the heat has to go straight up through the IHS.

(cache would be slightly cooler wouldn't it IDC? Some heat will also be dissipated out the back of the socket)

I don't understand, which part of your post is the nitpick? Sounds like you are further explaining one of the mechanisms by which those areas are "effectively' dark silicon, an explanation which I happen to agree with. :thumbsup:

The allure of dark silicon is that it helps with the lateral heat transfer through the silicon, remember the heatsink is attached to the backside of the CPU, not the topside.

So while some amount of heat is actively conducted through the BEOL wires forming the circuits themselves, in practice we are relying on the thermal diffusion that occurs within the silicon and that is a three dimensional situation.

The relevance of having darker areas of silicon is that it gives the heat more room to spread out, literally, which lowers the local temperature since temperature is literally heat density.

The definition of dark silicon is "under-utilized transistors". I refer to the non-core areas of the CPU as "effectively dark silicon" by way of comparison to their utilization (and resulting power density) in comparison to the utilization of the circuits located in the CPU cores.



I think we are both saying the same thing here, just talking past one another? Or am I missing your point entirely?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Btw, for those interested. The iGPU is rated for a maximum 8W TDP. Asuming its active. And it accounts roughly for 1/3rd of the die with a total 77W TDP. Thats why its a nice neighbour for a core.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
Btw, for those interested. The iGPU is rated for a maximum 8W TDP. Asuming its active. And it accounts roughly for 1/3rd of the die with a total 77W TDP. Thats why its a nice neighbour for a core.

I did not know that, I assumed it was low but did not realize it was that low. 8W max!?

Not to create a volatile situation, but now my curiosity is peaked so I will ask the question perchance someone knows and can provide the answer without touching off a flame war...what does the power-usage look like for the iGPU on AMD's APU's?
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
Is that 8w on the desktop versions??

I actually have my iGPU enabled so my dark silicon isn't as dark as others, though I didn't really notice an appreciable increase in temps on the first core.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,342
2,960
126
I've had one core report temps below ambient on my 3960X a few times before. Not sure how that's possible with air cooling. It's always reporting temps lower than the other 5.
 
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