Is Amazon the new Walmart?

11thHour

Senior member
Feb 20, 2004
796
1
0
Is Amazon the new Walmart?

Walmart has had some difficult times expanding into many areas in the last few years. They are known as anti-employee, anti-union, and generally considered predatory and a huge thread to local economies that they have moved into or plan to move into.

On the other hand, there is Amazon. While they have a great reputation and remarkable technology and a huge technology work force, they are also sustained (from what I've read) by their warehouse workers throughout the country, often low paid agency temp/contract workers who might get little if any benefits, working very long hours in tough conditions. Why agency workers? One has to believe agencies help Amazon obtain enough workers, but also helps Amazon keep from paying benefits such as vacation time, health insurance, (workers comp?) raises, and all the things that would be associated with having the workers on Amazon's payroll, including tempering the ability for these workers to unionize because they aren't Amazon employees.

So much has been made about Walmart moving into new communities. They have been known to affect so many local businesses, driving many of them out of business. Is Amazon any better? Could they be worse, perhaps much worse? Amazon affects not just local businesses, but all businesses. Ever considered buying something and thought, 'I'll look them up online first and then decide.' [Reads: I'll check amazon's reviews and their price first, then use Prime to get it cheaper in a couple days.]

While Amazon hurts traditional retailers, they also can hurt the health of manufacturers. It's almost a requirement to have one's products sold on Amazon these days, but while selling wholesale to Amazon can bring a lot of sales, it also can destroy a manufacturers other sales distribution channels that can't compete with Amazon's very low sales margins. And if 'reviews' aren't good and as a result sales aren't brisk on Amazon, they probably aren't going to be brisk elsewhere either. Also this means manufacturers have to concede to Amazon's wholesale rates and policies, or face the implications of not being on Amazon if they don't.

Jeff Bezos said recently (on that pre-Christmas 60 Minutes fluff piece on Amazon) that his goal is for Amazon to sell "everything." While selling "everything" sounds great for a consumer that just wants to purchase something at the best price and receive it as soon as possible, what will this do to local economies and local retailers that already have difficulty competing with Amazon? Local jobs? While not many have empathy or concern for the health of a retailer like Walmart, how concerned is everyone about other local markets, particularly ones that aren't highly leveraged national chains or franchises, if Amazon continues to take a greater bite out of local economies?

Bezos also wants "same day" shipping to all major markets, which some Amazon customers already experience. This also could have a huge impact on local economies, and for some businesses, a catostrophic effect.

While Tesla is getting iced out of being able to sell it's cars online, the clear threat to an online new car sales economy would clearly be Amazon, and I'm sure that's a door the industry doesn't want to open.

So at what point do things like 'monopoly' and 'predatory pricing' and 'predatory practices' get bounced around for Amazon?

I'm not sold either way - I love Amazon as much as the next person, but I believe at some point people have to take it upon themselves to ask, 'How big is too big' for Amazon, and think about the pros and cons about Amazon seeking to have as much influence in as many marketplaces as they would really like to have, because where they are right now is far from where they want to be.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,828
37
91
Walmart is full of pajama pants people, so I don't go there.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
One has to believe agencies help Amazon obtain enough workers, but also helps Amazon keep from paying benefits such as vacation time, health insurance, (workers comp?) raises, and all the things that would be associated with having the workers on Amazon's payroll,
um, most reputable agencies provide these to their temporary employees. It's part of the bill rate to Amazon.

While Amazon hurts traditional retailers, they also can hurt the health of manufacturers. It's almost a requirement to have one's products sold on Amazon these days, but while selling wholesale to Amazon can bring a lot of sales, it also can destroy a manufacturers other sales distribution channels that can't compete with Amazon's very low sales margins. And if 'reviews' aren't good and as a result sales aren't brisk on Amazon, they probably aren't going to be brisk elsewhere either. Also this means manufacturers have to concede to Amazon's wholesale rates and policies, or face the implications of not being on Amazon if they don't.

There's no evidence that this happens. And there is no "requirement" to sell on Amazon or sell to Amazon at reduced pricing. In fact, it's well known that Amazon's growth right now is not earnings related but future potential. That means they are losing money or not making enough to make a difference. That has less to do with the manufacturer's cost to Amazon than Amazon's costs of selling (which includes the wholesale costs). There are many, many items that sell at Amazon at the same price as any other place (grocery and health products are good examples).
 
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KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,402
386
126
I think amazon does use temps to limit unionization and because of high turnover. It's not a glamorous job for sure. Worse than Walmart is debatable, but it certainly is similar in its behavior.

Long term may not be an issue. Amazon online store Is in trouble when all states finally get their internet sales tax and when amazon shareholders finally start demanding profits equal to its share price. The company can currently undercut everyone because they can keep selling new stock at outrageous prices to keep the business running. Their web services and other services seem to be more profitable.
 
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KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,661
199
106
Walmart has had some difficult times expanding into many areas in the last few years. They are known as anti-employee, anti-union, and generally considered predatory and a huge thread to local economies that they have moved into or plan to move into.

I see you have bought into the full repertoire of anti-Walmart Union manure. Do you have a newsletter available?

-KeithP
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
The more people shop at amazon, the less "people of walmart" there will be

I don't see that as a bad thing at all
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
um, most reputable agencies provide these to their temporary employees. It's part of the bill rate to Amazon.



There's no evidence that this happens. And there is no "requirement" to sell on Amazon or sell to Amazon at reduced pricing. In fact, it's well known that Amazon's growth right now is not earnings related but future potential. That means they are losing money or not making enough to make a difference. That has less to do with the manufacturer's cost to Amazon than Amazon's costs of selling (which includes the wholesale costs). There are many, many items that sell at Amazon at the same price as any other place (grocery and health products are good examples).
Doesn't what you say support his point? Amazon is a powerhouse; everybody shops there and if your prices are higher than amazon (hell, maybe they are lower but nobody bothers going to it), you don't get a sale.

I like Amazon as a consumer but there are some concerns to it and I am worried it is getting too big. I don't like seeing tons of power rest with any company.
 

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,958
154
106
Yes but Amazon is the only company that will refund your original shipping and handling fee when you return a item.

Plus they refunded my shipping and handling fee because they weren't able to get a order out in time.
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
If local businesses can't compete and they go out of business then so be it. I never shop at expensive local stores and haven't in years. The only exception may be Frys electronics and if they can't adjust to compete then too bad.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,483
12,622
126
www.anyf.ca
Walmart is much more enjoyable to go to during the week (before 5), of course I'm lucky enough to work shift work so I can do that.

When it was open till midnight it was nice too, I'd go at like 11ish. Not a single soul there.

I find their grocery section is actually pretty good, even their produce. If I need something at Walmart I'll usually do groceries too while I'm there.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
I think amazon does use temps to limit unionization and because of high turnover. It's not a glamorous job for sure. Worse than Walmart is debatable, but it certainly is similar in its behavior.

Haven't worked at Amazon, duh, but I'm guessing that the typical Wal-Mart employee has it slightly better working in a fully climate controlled retail store -- one fit for customers. The Amazon fulfillment centers (or any warehouses for that matter) don't sound as "glamorous", and the Wal-Mart people probably don't have quotas. They probably don't have performance bonuses though...
 

Synomenon

Lifer
Dec 25, 2004
10,547
6
81
Amazon charges sales tax in my state now, so might as well buy it at Wal-Mart (or some other local store if Wal-Mart doesn't have it).
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
amazon is the first of its kind, walmart the last of its.

IF the warehouse jobs suck, they still surely must be better than the alternative employment options.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Doesn't what you say support his point? Amazon is a powerhouse; everybody shops there and if your prices are higher than amazon (hell, maybe they are lower but nobody bothers going to it), you don't get a sale.

I like Amazon as a consumer but there are some concerns to it and I am worried it is getting too big. I don't like seeing tons of power rest with any company.

He said that Amazon is setting the wholesale rate, similar to what Walmart does. There is no evidence of that. If there was, earnings, or lack of, would certainly not be such an issue (Amazon reported less than expected EPS last quarter). As someone else said above, their earnings do not support the share price.

I would also add that, unlike Walmart, there are thousands of sellers using Amazon's portal/website. For almost every item, there are alternative sellers you can choose from. Amazon doesn't force you to purchase from them.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Yes but Amazon is the only company that will refund your original shipping and handling fee when you return a item.

Plus they refunded my shipping and handling fee because they weren't able to get a order out in time.

Hell, if you have Prime, some items they'll refund you for and tell you to keep the item. Name one mom and pop shop, or any other company (other than Logitech) that does that.
 

Aroundthebend

Member
Feb 12, 2014
25
0
0
It's the really good returns policy that keeps making/helping me buy from there, but yea i imagine working there to be quite strenuous.
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
I like Walmart...but you know, I go there to shop, not to judge how everyone looks.

I spent $200 last night and got a ton of food.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Amazon = higher end options I actually want (Panasonic TVs, Organic free-trade coffee k-cups, organic coconut palm sugar, etc.)

Wal-Mart = Lower-end options that I don't want (Sanyo TVs, huge jars of pickles, pounds of white processed sugar, etc.)

Amazon is much closer to Costco/Natural Grocer/Whole Foods in my purchase categories.

If I am wanting to shop at a value store for goods I simply don't need quality versions of (sandals, shaving equipment, paper goods, cleaners, etc.) then I prefer Family Dollar/Dollar General as they give me more for the money with less shopping time which matters when the experience is poor.
 
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