Is Apple about to lose its dominance in the smartphone/tablet market?

Aug 23, 2000
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It really depends on how you define dominance.
I think idividual Apple products, IE iPhone 4s or iPhone 5, iPad2, iPad 3 outsell any single Android device by a pretty large amount, and Apple is definatley making more money on the ecosystem (iTunes).
Android has a bigger marketshare, but at the cost of it's vendors fighting each other. This is a +/- for Android. It gives options, but it also creates differences that some people hate. Take HTC Sense. It sucks. I won't buy another HTC phone as long as they keep using it.
 

cl-scott

ASUS Support
Jul 5, 2012
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I would say it won't necessarily be the number of Android devices coming out so much as the missteps Apple has been making of late.

* Siri was having issues figuring out the differences between say NY, NY and NY, TX
* Apple Maps (covered extensively)
* iOS 6 causing significant battery drain for some iPhone 4/4S owners
* Cosmetic blemishes from the factory on the iPhone 5
* No third party cables for the iPhone 5 that aren't "blessed" by Apple
* A pretty steady undercurrent of discontent on the part of app developers at the arbitrary, often heavy handed, and always opaque treatment Apple doles out
* Small, but growing, dissatisfaction with every iPhone/iPad/iTouch release being essentially a warmed over version of the previous one
* The heavy handed treatment AT&T seems to be giving to iPhone users a la face time

Those are just a couple of reasons. I'm probably forgetting a few, but basically I see some large storm clouds off in the distance that are on their way to settle over a certain address in Cupertino which will see them sharing the fate of RIM and Nokia.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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For the most part historically open platforms have beat out controlled propriety ones. Controlled platforms often do well in the beginning, but eventually the collective force of a larger development base and sharing of profit combined with competition drive innovation faster than the controlled platforms team could ever achieve.

Android devices have been outselling Apple iPhones ones for over 18 months. In the end the iPhone will likely be an irrelevant blip because Apple squandered market position for short term gains.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Apple will need to sell X amount of iOS devices to keep their mobile ecosystem healthy.

Install base drives developers to make content for your ecosystem. Content is why iOS devices are a huge cash cow for Apple. It's a feedback loop:

More devices sold --> developers produce more content --> consumers wanting the best content buy more devices --> developers wanting the largest audience produce more content.

Apple is undoubtedly going to produce beautiful hardware. But their smartphone market share worldwide is under 20% and shrinking every quarter. Developers are going to look to Android and their 65% install base first.
 

golem

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
838
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Apple will need to sell X amount of iOS devices to keep their mobile ecosystem healthy.

Install base drives developers to make content for your ecosystem. Content is why iOS devices are a huge cash cow for Apple. It's a feedback loop:

More devices sold --> developers produce more content --> consumers wanting the best content buy more devices --> developers wanting the largest audience produce more content.

Apple is undoubtedly going to produce beautiful hardware. But their smartphone market share worldwide is under 20% and shrinking every quarter. Developers are going to look to Android and their 65% install base first.

You have to look at the market share numbers a little deeper. Android leads IOS, no doubt, but a lot of the 65% market share comes from an Android surge in China.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/aug/16/android-winning-apps-china-smartphone

If you're a US or maybe even European developer, developing first for Android is not as a slam dunk decision as the world wide market share numbers would indicate.
 

OBLAMA2009

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2008
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apple is going to be fine for a long time to come. they can always start releasing more than one phone to compete more effectively--four and five inch screens to offer something for everyone
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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If you're a US or maybe even European developer, developing first for Android is not as a slam dunk decision as the world wide market share numbers would indicate.
But if you're a Chinese or Indian developer, it's a slam dunk. And there are some really talented developers outside of North America and Europe.

Actually, it's interesting you bring up Europe because Apple is getting shellacked in most EU nations.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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You have to look at the market share numbers a little deeper. Android leads IOS, no doubt, but a lot of the 65% market share comes from an Android surge in China.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/aug/16/android-winning-apps-china-smartphone

If you're a US or maybe even European developer, developing first for Android is not as a slam dunk decision as the world wide market share numbers would indicate.


I think its only NA that has had really high iOS market share until recently.

Europe has been majority Android for a while.
 

golem

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
838
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But if you're a Chinese or Indian developer, it's a slam dunk. And there are some really talented developers outside of North America and Europe.

Actually, it's interesting you bring up Europe because Apple is getting shellacked in most EU nations.

I guess it really depends on what you want. If it's by market share, I don't think there's any way Android can lose. A more or less free operating system supported by many manufactures vs an OS supported by one company.

If by profit, that would be different. It would be hard for any company to match the profit that Apple makes because they control their own chain. As long as they stay number 2, even a distant number 2, I don't think this will change.

Is there a lot of money to be made in the Chinese or Indian App market? I tried to do a search on it, but didn't find anything. I didn't look very hard though.
 

golem

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
838
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I think its only NA that has had really high iOS market share until recently.

Europe has been majority Android for a while.

If that's the case, then unless they start losing massive market share in NA, they'll probably dominate profits for a while longer unless the App markets outside the NA become more profitable or the carriers start pushing back on the subsidies Apple gets (more the 2nd than the first).
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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If that's the case, then unless they start losing massive market share in NA, they'll probably dominate profits for a while longer unless the App markets outside the NA become more profitable or the carriers start pushing back on the subsidies Apple gets (more the 2nd than the first).

Pulling numbers from memory (which is a little scatty so give me some wiggleroom) the UK has the lowest Android market share (I think it was about 50/50) going all the way to Spain where it is Android with about 85% of the market.

*pre iPhone5 numbers*

Edit: ooops wildly optimistic with those UK iOS numbers. LINK :$
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
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It really depends on how you define dominance.
I think idividual Apple products, IE iPhone 4s or iPhone 5, iPad2, iPad 3 outsell any single Android device by a pretty large amount, and Apple is definatley making more money on the ecosystem (iTunes).
Android has a bigger marketshare, but at the cost of it's vendors fighting each other. This is a +/- for Android. It gives options, but it also creates differences that some people hate. Take HTC Sense. It sucks. I won't buy another HTC phone as long as they keep using it.

Then root and unlock and flash a AOKP rom. No sense bloat. If you need warranty flash to stock. So simple.
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
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Even if the market share were to stop growing, Apple has the best profit margins and current app store traffic alone could last them a decade.

As population grows, their market share may look like it's dropping and I'm positive we'll see more pie charts pointing to loss of market share. Definition of domination in smartphone market varies widely, personally I think they will carry on. Doubt that they will lose many of those that have been inside the ecosystem but more and more of the newcomers may/will look elsewhere due to price, looks or features. Yet I think that even if Apple were to somehow lose all newcomers to alternatives, inertia could sustain them for a while.

I expect Android OEM''s to reduce the model count and focus more on high end, at least that's what I'm waiting for.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
0
It really depends on how you define dominance.
I think idividual Apple products, IE iPhone 4s or iPhone 5, iPad2, iPad 3 outsell any single Android device by a pretty large amount, and Apple is definatley making more money on the ecosystem (iTunes).
Android has a bigger marketshare, but at the cost of it's vendors fighting each other. This is a +/- for Android. It gives options, but it also creates differences that some people hate. Take HTC Sense. It sucks. I won't buy another HTC phone as long as they keep using it.
Nokia and RIM once had control over the market, and now they are gone because they bank on closed source that hampered innovation. IMHO, Apple is in the same boat and is about to be push out of the phone market once Android take off.

A 4 month old Samsung Galaxy S3 gave the iPhone5 a jab, and in a month the newer/faster Note 2 speed and larger size will dole out a left hook, and then the S3 mini will send iPhone5 staggering back into the corner with an upper cut. And, there are other Android phones as well as MS are waiting in line to jump into the ring with the Apple champ.

IMHO, Apple days of glory is about to become history.
 
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jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Yowza, didn't even know they were making one, thanks for pointing that out.

That's going to be my GF's new phone. She wants to stay Android but wanted something smaller than my GS3.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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apple is going to be fine for a long time to come. they can always start releasing more than one phone to compete more effectively--four and five inch screens to offer something for everyone
They already have, ie: iPhone 5, 4S, and 4. And, it would surely cut into their profit margin if they make more phone for the same amount of market share...perhaps even less market share in the near future.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
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Pulling numbers from memory (which is a little scatty so give me some wiggleroom) the UK has the lowest Android market share (I think it was about 50/50) going all the way to Spain where it is Android with about 85% of the market.

*pre iPhone5 numbers*

Edit: ooops wildly optimistic with those UK iOS numbers. LINK :$

Nice analysis link. I had totally forgotten about Bada, lol.

I'm surprised they didn't list China, Japan, and Korea on the other key markets. Oh well.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
2,249
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Nokia and RIM once had control over the market, and now they are gone because they bank on closed source that hampered innovation. IMHO, Apple is in the same boat and is about to be push out of the phone market once Android take off.

A 4 month old Samsung Galaxy S3 gave the iPhone5 a jab, and in a month the newer/faster Note 2 speed and larger size will dole out a left hook, and then the S3 mini will send iPhone5 staggering back into the corner with an upper cut. And, there are other Android phones as well as MS are waiting in line to jump into the ring with the Apple champ.

IMHO, Apple days of glory is about to become history.

That's funny!

The loyal will keep buying iPhones. Slowly others will sway away from the herd. It's up to Apple to innovate not litigate to keep the herd a respectable size!
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Apple's problem is they they can't appeal to as many segments of the market as android can. Even something like the size of the phone, they JUST introduced a larger phone and it's only 4 inches.

I wish Jobs were still alive today to see his company's market share dwindling every year. Now they're going to pin this all on Tim (even though some of the recent mistakes are Steve's fault).
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,837
2,101
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Nokia and RIM once had control over the market, and now they are gone because they bank on closed source that hampered innovation. IMHO, Apple is in the same boat and is about to be push out of the phone market once Android take off.

A 4 month old Samsung Galaxy S3 gave the iPhone5 a jab, and in a month the newer/faster Note 2 speed and larger size will dole out a left hook, and then the S3 mini will send iPhone5 staggering back into the corner with an upper cut. And, there are other Android phones as well as MS are waiting in line to jump into the ring with the Apple champ.

IMHO, Apple days of glory is about to become history.

Seriously?!? Dumb phones are fewer and fewer. Low end Android phones are taking over the traditional dumb phone market. The size of the smart phone market is growing every year. Sell through numbers of Apple's iPhone have increased year over year. Apple's iOS ecosystem is also incredibly strong which will help sustain them.

I'm not saying Apple shouldn't be concerned about Android but you seem to think it is a foregone conclusion that Apple will become irrelevant. That is absolutely ludicrous.

That's funny!

The loyal will keep buying iPhones. Slowly others will sway away from the herd. It's up to Apple to innovate not litigate to keep the herd a respectable size!

If anyone is "following the herd" it would be those buying Android. This term would be more appropriately applied to Android considering the market share size and how there is a very large contingent of blindly devoted Android proponents...at least as much as on the iOS side of things.

Apple's problem is they they can't appeal to as many segments of the market as android can. Even something like the size of the phone, they JUST introduced a larger phone and it's only 4 inches.

I wish Jobs were still alive today to see his company's market share dwindling every year. Now they're going to pin this all on Tim (even though some of the recent mistakes are Steve's fault).

Yeah. Apple is doomed I tell you. Their market share keeps dwindling every single year.

I mean, take a look at the chart below. It clearly shows how the shrinking market share is affecting Apple.



Apple is doomed I tell you! Doomed!
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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Seriously?!? Dumb phones are fewer and fewer. Low end Android phones are taking over the traditional dumb phone market. The size of the smart phone market is growing every year. Sell through numbers of Apple's iPhone have increased year over year. Apple's iOS ecosystem is also incredibly strong which will help sustain them.

I'm not saying Apple shouldn't be concerned about Android but you seem to think it is a foregone conclusion that Apple will become irrelevant. That is absolutely ludicrous.



If anyone is "following the herd" it would be those buying Android. This term would be more appropriately applied to Android considering the market share size and how there is a very large contingent of blindly devoted Android proponents...at least as much as on the iOS side of things.



Yeah. Apple is doomed I tell you. Their market share keeps dwindling every single year.

I mean, take a look at the chart below. It clearly shows how the shrinking market share is affecting Apple.



Apple is doomed I tell you! Doomed!
Old data that only show sales up to the second quarter of 2012, that doesn't show the iPhone sales after the Galaxy S3 came out into the market, and certainly doesn't have the iPhone 5 sales.

Please come back in a year or 2 with a musical and tell us how much you love iPhone developers as well as Steve Jobs.
 
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Mopetar

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Jan 31, 2011
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Old data that only show sales up to the second quarter of 2012, that doesn't show the iPhone sales after the Galaxy S3 came out into the market, and certainly doesn't have the iPhone 5 sales.

Data for the most recent quarter (which ended less than a week ago) hasn't been released yet. Also we know that iPhone 5 sales were at leas 5 million as that's the only information Apple has released so far.

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make though.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
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Data for the most recent quarter (which ended less than a week ago) hasn't been released yet. Also we know that iPhone 5 sales were at leas 5 million as that's the only information Apple has released so far.

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make though.
I'm saying that Apple may not do as well as it has in the past, starting with September of 2012, because the iPhone 5 upgrade is a small incremental over that of the 4S and isn't that much better than competitor Androids.

5 million units is well short of the 6.5 million units that was expected by analysts hence the drop in stock price.
 
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