Is Apple about to lose its dominance in the smartphone/tablet market?

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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
And while consumers don't read tech blogs, they do read Consumer Reports:

http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2012/10/apple-iphone-5-test-results.html



The whole maps thing is overblown, I've had Google Maps route me in circles many times, a year from now, I suspect Apple's maps/navigation will be nearly equal to Google's

No, it will not be equal. It takes numerous years/manpower to make google maps what it was, you can't just throw money at it. And it kinda sucks for ios users to not have street view, which is a VERY useful feature.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Yeah but all iPhones use that and, apparently, all iPhones don't lag.

So how can people tell newer iPhones are faster?

Less input lag.

As Jpeyton said, iOS trades input lag for pretty transition animations, so there are times when your input suddenly does not register.

So basically, Apple's does this:

1) Expecting user input: responsiveness > smoothness (low input lag, dropped animation frames)
2) Doing transition animation: responsiveness < smoothness (high input lag, no animation frame drop)

It's adaptive, and Apple is very good at knowing when to do what... though sometimes it still shows through and iOS brings the device to a crawl, but that happens pretty rarely.

On the other hand, Android does pretty much something in between... but since some devices have bad touch panels, they "seem" to lag more than they should. It's both a hardware and a software problem on Android.

No, it will not be equal. It takes numerous years/manpower to make google maps what it was, you can't just throw money at it. And it kinda sucks for ios users to not have street view, which is a VERY useful feature.

Streetview was added to the web interface for Google Maps, so now iOS users can just go on there to look for houses if nowhere else.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,019
6,471
136
Yeah but all iPhones use that and, apparently, all iPhones don't lag.

So how can people tell newer iPhones are faster?

First it's a question of what people and exactly what are they saying?

I have a feeling that when people say the new iPhone is faster, they mean in terms of app launch speed, etc. Maybe it really is smoother, and perhaps it's even possible for the average human to detect, but I'd rather see actual numbers to back it up. Otherwise it's probably just some overblown claim made by an idiot tech pundit.

If someone really wants to test smoothness, just get a high speed camera and video some simple drag gestures and other animations. At that point it's just a matter of analyzing the video to see how smoothly something animates.

I don't think any of us are so stupid as to say Apple will rule tech forever, and I suspect the logarithmic growth we've seen won't continue.

Wouldn't that be exponential growth? Logarithmic growth would be the inverse of exponential growth.

And it kinda sucks for ios users to not have street view, which is a VERY useful feature.

I'd have to check on my iPad, but couldn't iOS users just use the web-based version of Google Maps for this? I haven't tried it, so perhaps it doesn't work all that well.

Edit: After trying it out, it would appear as though it doesn't include street view. If it does I couldn't find it.

Edit: Apparently I'm just blind and it actually does have street view.
 
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ThermalShark

Member
Apr 2, 2012
27
0
0
First it's a question of what people and exactly what are they saying?

I have a feeling that when people say the new iPhone is faster, they mean in terms of app launch speed, etc. Maybe it really is smoother, and perhaps it's even possible for the average human to detect, but I'd rather see actual numbers to back it up. Otherwise it's probably just some overblown claim made by an idiot tech pundit.

If someone really wants to test smoothness, just get a high speed camera and video some simple drag gestures and other animations. At that point it's just a matter of analyzing the video to see how smoothly something animates.



Wouldn't that be exponential growth? Logarithmic growth would be the inverse of exponential growth.



I'd have to check on my iPad, but couldn't iOS users just use the web-based version of Google Maps for this? I haven't tried it, so perhaps it doesn't work all that well.

Edit: after trying it out, it would appear as though it doesn't include street view. If it does I couldn't find it.

Yes, meant exponential, and Google just added street view to the iOS web app.
 

ThermalShark

Member
Apr 2, 2012
27
0
0
No, it will not be equal. It takes numerous years/manpower to make google maps what it was, you can't just throw money at it. And it kinda sucks for ios users to not have street view, which is a VERY useful feature.

So despite having virtually unlimited resources, Apple will never be able to equal Google Maps?
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,019
6,471
136
So despite having virtually unlimited resources, Apple will never be able to equal Google Maps?

The probably will eventually, if only because there's a point where the ability to improve hits diminishing returns, but Google can always think of new features to add.

I think it's more of a question of how long it takes Apple to get good enough that most people don't care.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
The probably will eventually, if only because there's a point where the ability to improve hits diminishing returns, but Google can always think of new features to add.

I think it's more of a question of how long it takes Apple to get good enough that most people don't care.

It really depends on how long it takes for Apple to get to the point that they are no longer relying on 3rd parties to collect data and instead do it themselves. And that almost invariably means mounting equipment to a car and driving it around on roads to collect data about streets, highways, signs, etc... which is time consuming (and there's a rapidly diminishing point of return to spending money to make that process go faster).
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
First it's a question of what people and exactly what are they saying?

I have a feeling that when people say the new iPhone is faster, they mean in terms of app launch speed, etc. Maybe it really is smoother, and perhaps it's even possible for the average human to detect, but I'd rather see actual numbers to back it up. Otherwise it's probably just some overblown claim made by an idiot tech pundit.

If someone really wants to test smoothness, just get a high speed camera and video some simple drag gestures and other animations. At that point it's just a matter of analyzing the video to see how smoothly something animates.



Wouldn't that be exponential growth? Logarithmic growth would be the inverse of exponential growth.



I'd have to check on my iPad, but couldn't iOS users just use the web-based version of Google Maps for this? I haven't tried it, so perhaps it doesn't work all that well.

Edit: After trying it out, it would appear as though it doesn't include street view. If it does I couldn't find it.

Edit: Apparently I'm just blind and it actually does have street view.

Speed improvements on the iPhone 5 are easily seen with web browsing, which is and always has been CPU limited.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,019
6,471
136
It really depends on how long it takes for Apple to get to the point that they are no longer relying on 3rd parties to collect data and instead do it themselves. And that almost invariably means mounting equipment to a car and driving it around on roads to collect data about streets, highways, signs, etc... which is time consuming (and there's a rapidly diminishing point of return to spending money to make that process go faster).

That can also be outsourced. It's not as though there aren't several other companies already doing similar things.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,019
6,471
136
Speed improvements on the iPhone 5 are easily seen with web browsing, which is and always has been CPU limited.

I was responding to a post related to smoothness in the use of the OS. I don't know if many reviewers have been claiming that newer iPhones offer a smoother experience. I'm pretty sure that when most people say faster, they're referring to exactly what you say, browser performance, app launch speed, etc. and not how smooth/laggy the OS feels.
 

poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
81
For the most part historically open platforms have beat out controlled propriety ones. Controlled platforms often do well in the beginning, but eventually the collective force of a larger development base and sharing of profit combined with competition drive innovation faster than the controlled platforms team could ever achieve.

Android devices have been outselling Apple iPhones ones for over 18 months. In the end the iPhone will likely be an irrelevant blip because Apple squandered market position for short term gains.

QFT. Just look @ IBM & the pc, same thing was happening back in the 80s with desktops, Apple lost big time. Its like history is literally repeating itself, & Apple just didnt seem to learn. Atleast get 2-3 partners instead of being the only one. If Samsung was making iphone variants along with Apple they'd be even richer.

Let them relive history then. And its no secret they have already lost marketshare to Android, so thread title should be changed.
 

ThermalShark

Member
Apr 2, 2012
27
0
0
I don't think history is repeating itself, what seems to be happening is companies that can are following Apple's lead, MS is considering making it's own phone, has already committed to making it's own tablet, HP is throwing resources at Web OS again and talking about developing a phone, Google flipping owns Moto, and Samsung has Bada in the wings...

I think a future of Android phones for everyone is far from locked in, and goddamn boring if it happens.

Apple made more from iPhones than Microsoft made last year.

Apple can't build iPhone 5's fast enough.

The same argument keeps going on year after year.

Apple is doomed, LOL
 
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akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,837
2,101
136
Yet we don't see iPhone overtaking Android on those same carriers that have had an iPhone for the while.

Depends on the metrics you're using to measure with. As a whole, Android is significantly ahead of iOS in practically any sales category you wish to name. If we break it down and look only at premium priced phones, Apple is actually doing very very well.

My problem is that the "doom and gloom" predictions are mostly based out of people pulling opinions out of their rear ends. Barring a catastrophe for Android, iOS isn't going to overtake it any time soon. That doesn't mean Apple isn't doing extremely well. Every ECO of every company selling an Android device (excepting Samsung) would sell their mother's soul for Apple's sales and profits.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
I don't think history is repeating itself, what seems to be happening is companies that can are following Apple's lead, MS is considering making it's own phone, has already committed to making it's own tablet, HP is throwing resources at Web OS again and talking about developing a phone, Google flipping owns Moto, and Samsung has Bada in the wings...

I think a future of Android phones for everyone is far from locked in, and goddamn boring if it happens.

Apple made more from iPhones than Microsoft made last year.

Apple can't build iPhone 5's fast enough.

The same argument keeps going on year after year.

Apple is doomed, LOL

No Doubt. Which phone are you rocking now?
 
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ThermalShark

Member
Apr 2, 2012
27
0
0
I have an S3 I bought off a crack addict on Craigslist for $300 and a Note on Straight Talk.

Just rooted the S3, have to love tethering 4G on an unlimited Verizon plan.

Am tired of the Note, it actually makes my hand hurt. I don't buy into the small screen argument by Apple, but 5+ inches really is too big, at least for me.

Looking forward to scoring an iP5 used (on Straight Talk) when the prices take a bit of a dip.
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
Yeah but all iPhones use that and, apparently, all iPhones don't lag.

So how can people tell newer iPhones are faster?

Every phone exhibits lag of some sort but its much less on iOS. With every new iPhone it is faster and smoother. The iPhone 5 is on another level in this regard.

You don't notice the lag until something faster comes out. For example when the iPhone gen 1 came out, it was unreal. Also looking back at the G1, people may have thought that was fast, but it was pure shit.

Android can get you from point A to B faster but that speed would take a big hit if it tried to mimic iOS animations. Which may have been why project butter took so long to come around.

In my usage, I feel that iOS is more pleasant to use when it comes to responsiveness.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Don't know who you speak of kemosabe, but I have an S3 I bought off a crack addict on Craigslist for $300 and a Note on Straight Talk.

Just rooted the S3, have to love tethering 4G on an unlimited Verizon plan.

Am tired of the Note, it actually makes my hand hurt. I don't buy into the small screen argument by Apple, but 5+ inches really is too big, at least for me.

Looking forward to scoring an iP5 used (on Straight Talk) when the prices take a bit of a dip.

Note is too big. I can't carry the Note in my work pocket and if I can't do that, I might as well carry something bigger than the Note.

iP5 just doesn't do it for me. I hate the long screen and think it's retarded. I much prefer the 4:3 vs 16:9. Everything about iP5 bored me when I played with it, from the physical design to the OS. I think 4S is better phone in every aspect of the physical design.
 

ThermalShark

Member
Apr 2, 2012
27
0
0
Note is too big. I can't carry the Note in my work pocket and if I can't do that, I might as well carry something bigger than the Note.

iP5 just doesn't do it for me. I hate the long screen and think it's retarded. I much prefer the 4:3 vs 16:9. Everything about iP5 bored me when I played with it, from the physical design to the OS. I think 4S is better phone in every aspect of the physical design.

The iP5 does look odd, haven't used one much yet, just held them for a few seconds.

I wish Google/Apple would do something crazy like make the Nexus 7/iPad Mini a cell phone
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
Every phone exhibits lag of some sort but its much less on iOS. With every new iPhone it is faster and smoother. The iPhone 5 is on another level in this regard.

You don't notice the lag until something faster comes out. For example when the iPhone gen 1 came out, it was unreal. Also looking back at the G1, people may have thought that was fast, but it was pure shit.

Android can get you from point A to B faster but that speed would take a big hit if it tried to mimic iOS animations. Which may have been why project butter took so long to come around.

In my usage, I feel that iOS is more pleasant to use when it comes to responsiveness.

Lot of iOS perceived smoothness is just excessive animation. I can make my Galaxy Nexus mimic iOS animation and smoothness by using 3rd party launcher like Nova Launcher and setting the Scroll Speed and Animation Speed to "Relaxed" which mimics the slow "beautiful" animations of iOS. Likewise I can set it to "Faster than light" which forgets all animation so it feels lightning fast. There's fine balance and one I feel Google has got it right with JellyBean. Not too slow, not too fast.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,940
838
126
I don't understand the people who bitch about the screen being too big yet buy phones with big screens anyway only to bitch about the screen being big.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I don't understand the people who bitch about the screen being too big yet buy phones with big screens anyway only to bitch about the screen being big.

Not everyone does it.

Plenty of people buy EA games and plenty of people complain about EA games.
They are not necessarily the same people.
 
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