Is AT&T BS-ing me? Can GSM connect to tower 30mi away?

[Ichinisan]

Cliffs: AT&T says my phone gets the wrong time occasionally because it's connecting to a tower about 30 miles away. I don't buy it.

If any of you work for a mobile phone carrier or in engineering wireless networks, maybe you can give me some more info on this...

I've always had a problem with AT&T / Cingular for many years now. I occasionally find that the time on my phone is incorrect. Whenever this happens, it's ALWAYS 1hr earlier than the correct time. I've had the problem with multiple different phones and my co-workers have confirmed that they occasionally notice the same thing. When I got my first "smartphone" (iPhone 3G) back in 2008, I would start to depend on the alarm and calendar features, so it was especially frustrating when the time would be incorrect. I tried disabling the feature to set the time automatically, but it didn't take long before the iPhone had completely the wrong time (not just the hour, the MINUTES too). --ADD moment: What kind of so-called gadget these days can't even keep time?!?-- So I've always just accepted that the time on my phone might be wrong, and I can never depend on it. I now have an iPhone 4 and I have noticed at least once that the time was an hour off again.

I suspect that it's connecting to a tower on AT&T's network that is misconfigured in AT&T's system. AT&T's system thinks this tower is in the next time-zone (going west, Central Time starts at the Alabama border) almost 30 miles away. There are AT&T towers all over my town...so I don't think it's even possible that my phone would connect to a tower in Alabama when there are other towers much closer. This isn't what I would describe as "flat terrain" either. There are forests and hills...typical topography.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that my phone is connecting to a tower in AL. Even in town, there are dead spots all over the place that really shouldn't be (AT&T's crappy coverage). If my phone had the ability to connect to a tower so far away, then why are there dead spots in a town with lots of AT&T towers?

Even if the land was perfectly flat and there were no trees, would it be possible for my phone to connect to a tower that is at least 28.25 miles away?

 

[Proprioceptive]

Obligatory Apple is trying to control every aspect of your life and they're using AT&T as their medium this time....

 

[MJinZ]

No, cell towers max out between 3 and 5 mile radiuses.

 

[Key West]

I used to work for a leading cell phone tower company that lease out towers spaces to the big 4 (at&t, vzw, sprint, tmobi).

Your typical monopole tower is the most common type that doesn't exceed 200'. The equipments on that tower are meant to handshake no further than several miles.

The 3g, 4g frequencies are in the 2ghz range. They lack penetrating power (going through walls), but these short waves reach very far.

There are also guyed towers (supported by high tension cables) that exceed 400-500'. They include drum dish equipments that expand broadcast OTA TV signals that extend 80-100 miles.

It is likely that you can get signal from 30 miles away thanks to these Guyed towers.

 

[Minerva]

This is highly dependent on terrain. I've gotten a 3G (Verizon CDMA) signal good enough to send email (about 26.4k DUN speed) and the GPS said we were about 30 (nautical miles) off Cape Hatteras! I could not believe it. That was using a Kyocera KPC-650 card. Never tried the range now that we have a repeater but the coverage in the coves is a lot better. This is on a Morgan Ketch (sailboat) btw.

 

[syee]

I'm not sure about the iPhone since I've never owned one, but on my Blackberry, there's the option to use network time vs keeping time on the handset. Maybe check to see if there's a similar feature to that on the iPhone? You could probably use that too to see if the network time is actually off or if it's the phone that's acting strange.

 

[dmcowen674]

Cliffs: AT&T says my phone gets the wrong time occasionally because it's connecting to a tower about 30 miles away. I don't buy it.

If any of you work for a mobile phone carrier or in engineering wireless networks, maybe you can give me some more info on this...

I've always had a problem with AT&T / Cingular for many years now. I occasionally find that the time on my phone is incorrect. Whenever this happens, it's ALWAYS 1hr earlier than the correct time. I've had the problem with multiple different phones and my co-workers have confirmed that they occasionally notice the same thing. When I got my first "smartphone" (iPhone 3G) back in 2008, I would start to depend on the alarm and calendar features, so it was especially frustrating when the time would be incorrect. I tried disabling the feature to set the time automatically, but it didn't take long before the iPhone had completely the wrong time (not just the hour, the MINUTES too). --ADD moment: What kind of so-called gadget these days can't even keep time?!?-- So I've always just accepted that the time on my phone might be wrong, and I can never depend on it. I now have an iPhone 4 and I have noticed at least once that the time was an hour off again.

I suspect that it's connecting to a tower on AT&T's network that is misconfigured in AT&T's system. AT&T's system thinks this tower is in the next time-zone (going west, Central Time starts at the Alabama border) almost 30 miles away. There are AT&T towers all over my town...so I don't think it's even possible that my phone would connect to a tower in Alabama when there are other towers much closer. This isn't what I would describe as "flat terrain" either. There are forests and hills...typical topography.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that my phone is connecting to a tower in AL. Even in town, there are dead spots all over the place that really shouldn't be (AT&T's crappy coverage). If my phone had the ability to connect to a tower so far away, then why are there dead spots in a town with lots of AT&T towers?

Even if the land was perfectly flat and there were no trees, would it be possible for my phone to connect to a tower that is at least 28.25 miles away?

Yes, it's called Ping-Pong

For crying out loud it's wireless not a landline so it's a fancy walkie talkie

"misconfigured"

You're funny








NOT

 

[Ichinisan]

I'm not sure about the iPhone since I've never owned one, but on my Blackberry, there's the option to use network time vs keeping time on the handset. Maybe check to see if there's a similar feature to that on the iPhone? You could probably use that too to see if the network time is actually off or if it's the phone that's acting strange.

It's the network that's acting strange. It does it with all phones. I've had Motorola RAZR, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, and iPhone 4...they all did it.

As I mentioned in the OP, I tried disabling the automatic time option...but my old 3G iPhone couldn't keep time by itself and it wasn't long at all before both the hours and the MINUTES were *way* off.

 

[dmcowen674]

No, cell towers max out between 3 and 5 mile radiuses.

Jeesh I hope you don't work in RF

 

[Ichinisan]

Cliffs: AT&T says my phone gets the wrong time occasionally because it's connecting to a tower about 30 miles away. I don't buy it.

If any of you work for a mobile phone carrier or in engineering wireless networks, maybe you can give me some more info on this...

I've always had a problem with AT&T / Cingular for many years now. I occasionally find that the time on my phone is incorrect. Whenever this happens, it's ALWAYS 1hr earlier than the correct time. I've had the problem with multiple different phones and my co-workers have confirmed that they occasionally notice the same thing. When I got my first "smartphone" (iPhone 3G) back in 2008, I would start to depend on the alarm and calendar features, so it was especially frustrating when the time would be incorrect. I tried disabling the feature to set the time automatically, but it didn't take long before the iPhone had completely the wrong time (not just the hour, the MINUTES too). --ADD moment: What kind of so-called gadget these days can't even keep time?!?-- So I've always just accepted that the time on my phone might be wrong, and I can never depend on it. I now have an iPhone 4 and I have noticed at least once that the time was an hour off again.

I suspect that it's connecting to a tower on AT&T's network that is misconfigured in AT&T's system. AT&T's system thinks this tower is in the next time-zone (going west, Central Time starts at the Alabama border) almost 30 miles away. There are AT&T towers all over my town...so I don't think it's even possible that my phone would connect to a tower in Alabama when there are other towers much closer. This isn't what I would describe as "flat terrain" either. There are forests and hills...typical topography.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that my phone is connecting to a tower in AL. Even in town, there are dead spots all over the place that really shouldn't be (AT&T's crappy coverage). If my phone had the ability to connect to a tower so far away, then why are there dead spots in a town with lots of AT&T towers?

Even if the land was perfectly flat and there were no trees, would it be possible for my phone to connect to a tower that is at least 28.25 miles away?

Yes, it's called Ping-Pong

For crying out loud it's wireless not a landline so it's a fancy walkie talkie

"misconfigured"

You're funny








NOT

Could you try that again, speaking a lauguage I can understand?

Yes,

Are you answering the question of "can a phone connect to a tower 30mi away?" I guess I should ask, WOULD it connect to a tower 30mi away if I'm right in the middle of a city that AT&T claims to cover?

... it's called Ping-Pong

What is called "Ping-Pong?" Connecting to a tower 30mi away is called "ping-pong?" I don't think that explains anything.

For crying out loud it's wireless not a landline so it's a fancy walkie talkie

I understand that. I'm just saying that it seems like something needs to be tweaked somewhere. Do you disagree? Maybe you work for AT&T and you're being defensive? Please elaborate.

"misconfigured"

You're funny








NOT

I wasn't trying to be funny. Sorry if it seemed that way. I wasn't saying necessarily that a tower has a particular "configuration," but AT&T's network should certainly have lots of properties associated with every tower that participates in their network: Coordinates, strength, capabilities (3G, etc), TIME ZONE, AT&T owned or licensed, etc...

You probably have a lot of knowledge on the subject and I would value any contribution you might make in this discussion.

 

[vshah]

I'm not sure about the iPhone since I've never owned one, but on my Blackberry, there's the option to use network time vs keeping time on the handset. Maybe check to see if there's a similar feature to that on the iPhone? You could probably use that too to see if the network time is actually off or if it's the phone that's acting strange.

read oP? he tried that already

 

[DrPizza]

No, cell towers max out between 3 and 5 mile radiuses.

It's gotta be more than that. I live in a pretty rural area and don't have a cell tower within 5 miles of my location.

And to the OP - your phone is one hour off, you're 30 miles away from a time zone change. Can you think of any other alternate explanation other than the one you've been given?

 

[bobdole369]

This is pretty much the upper limit for VHF/UHF/MW comms. The curvature of the earth limits you beyond that (which is about 30 miles). Minerva echoes what I typically see on yachts out on sea trial. With nothing but the sea betwixt you and land, and nary a soul out there, Cell signals (and radio waves) travel purty far.

In the city, I doubt it. I lose signal all the time (and so does everyone else) near my work, which happens to be close to directly on the final approach/takeoff path for a major international airport. i.e. no cell towers in a certain swath. The swath is roughly a mile wide. The north end of the swath is demarced by a major Interstate with cell towers all along its perimeter. Based on assisted GPS locs and http://www.antennasearch.com/ I've been able to ID the towers my iPhone typically talk to. One is at 140 ft (a monopole), and perhaps 1.5 miles SE. Another is 80ft and directly north 0.75 miles. The nearest big-daddy is at 350 feet and guyed and quite visible, 4 miles NW. I've never connected to that one except driving within 2 miles of it.

Urban environments make RF quite difficult. Rural environments make it easier, but add terrain.

For the OP - I think AT&T is pulling your leg. While quite possible, it is very improbable that you are making 30 mile contacts.

Occam's Razor applies. There has got to be something simpler occurring. Also - Hmmm, doesn't the phone and cell network work on UTC/GMT? I never thought about time zones...

 

[Nebor]

Totally true. I used to pick up Alabama time from Georgia all the time.

 

[dmcowen674]

Could you try that again, speaking a lauguage I can understand?

Are you answering the question of "can a phone connect to a tower 30mi away?" I guess I should ask, WOULD it connect to a tower 30mi away if I'm right in the middle of a city that AT&T claims to cover?


What is called "Ping-Pong?" Connecting to a tower 30mi away is called "ping-pong?" I don't think that explains anything.


I understand that. I'm just saying that it seems like something needs to be tweaked somewhere. Do you disagree? Maybe you work for AT&T and you're being defensive? Please elaborate.


I wasn't trying to be. Sorry if it seemed that way.

I have installed 75% of the GSM in the U.S. for a couple fo different carriers since 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM

Cell horizontal radius varies depending on antenna height, antenna gain and propagation conditions from a couple of hundred meters to several tens of kilometres. The longest distance the GSM specification supports in practical use is 35 kilometres (22 mi). There are also several implementations of the concept of an extended cell,[12] where the cell radius could be double or even more, depending on the antenna system, the type of terrain and the timing advance.

Ping-Pong is just what it sounds like, you are registering between two sites and bouncing back and forth causing your time to jump.

Unless you put a lead wall up between you and Alabama you are pretty much stuck with it.

 

[Mark R]

Cliffs: AT&T says my phone gets the wrong time occasionally because it's connecting to a tower about 30 miles away. I don't buy it.

If it's a high-powered cell, on a high tower with directional antennas, and high levels of receiver diversity it can be done.

It's well recognised in Europe. E.g. If you go to the south coast of England, you can lose signal from local cells, and GSM phones will pick up cell towers from France - 25 miles away over sea - and roam onto the French network.

35 miles is the absolute max though - GSM works on a time-slice transmission system. Above 35 miles, the ping time to the cell site (0.3 ms - the time light takes to reach the cell site) is too high for the GSM protocol to sync time-slices.

 

[Ichinisan]

I have installed 75% of the GSM in the U.S. for a couple fo different carriers since 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM

Cell horizontal radius varies depending on antenna height, antenna gain and propagation conditions from a couple of hundred meters to several tens of kilometres. The longest distance the GSM specification supports in practical use is 35 kilometres (22 mi). There are also several implementations of the concept of an extended cell,[12] where the cell radius could be double or even more, depending on the antenna system, the type of terrain and the timing advance.

Ping-Pong is just what it sounds like, you are registering between two sites and bouncing back and forth causing your time to jump.

Unless you put a lead wall up between you and Alabama you are pretty much stuck with it.

Thanks. Is there some reason my phone would try to connect to a tower at the theoretical range limit when I'm in a city that is supposedly covered by AT&T? (I'm literally right next to the town square and the historic courthouse).

 

[Tobolo]

I used to live in Carrollton, GA which is probably 15 minutes from the Alabama border. Never ever had a problem.

 

[dmcowen674]

Thanks. Is there some reason my phone would try to connect to a tower at the theoretical range limit when I'm in a city that is supposedly covered by AT&T? (I'm literally right next to the town square and the historic courthouse).

Most likely the rural site in Alabama has a higher antenna and more powerful amplifiers on it causing your phone to see it it rather than the urban site closer to you.

 

[dmcowen674]

I used to live in Carrollton, GA which is probably 15 minutes from the Alabama border. Never ever had a problem.

The old wire plant

It still there or it close and all cable come from China now?

 

[Tobolo]

The old wire plant

It still there or it close and all cable come from China now?

Nope, Southwire is still there. I'm pretty sure the family pretty much owns the whole town now lol.

 

[Ichinisan]

I used to live in Carrollton, GA which is probably 15 minutes from the Alabama border. Never ever had a problem.

That makes me an angry panda. Newnan is about twice the distance from the Central Time Zone / AL border.

 

[dmcowen674]

If it's a high-powered cell, on a high tower with directional antennas, and high levels of receiver diversity it can be done.

It's well recognised in Europe. E.g. If you go to the south coast of England, you can lose signal from local cells, and GSM phones will pick up cell towers from France - 25 miles away over sea - and roam onto the French network.

35 miles is the absolute max though - GSM works on a time-slice transmission system. Above 35 miles, the ping time to the cell site (0.3 ms - the time light takes to reach the cell site) is too high for the GSM protocol to sync time-slices.

Now obviously you are in RF

 

[Ichinisan]

Nope, Southwire is still there. I'm pretty sure the family pretty much owns the whole town now lol.

West Central Technical College had a "computer programming" diploma years back that only produced a working knowledge of COBOL.

I found out that the two leading ladies used to work for Southwire and they were the only place still hiring COBOL programmers.

Eh, that's why I can't call myself a professional "programmer"

Seriously, COBOL was the biggest offender in the whole Y2K scare.

 

[KK]

We had an alarm system out in an old radio site in colorado that used an old analog wireless bag type phone. I forget what the one guy that we would call for troubles said the distance was that old phone would have to call out, but it was over 30 miles for sure.