Is ATI losing their edge?

[dh19440113]

1. I thought ATi will be the first to roll out with the next gen card. They taped out first right?

2 Nvidia is having a field day, If i was ATi I would try to bust their chops. But all we get is silence, which suggest to me that Ati isn't very well prepared against Nv40's performance. I mean x800xt will be shipped in end of may, thats a month for Nvidia to gloat.

3. The x800pro will be priced at $399, compare to geforce 6800 at $299, (as suggest all over internet). These are equivalent cards with 12 pipeline. Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true. To make a mistake like that is foolish for ati. The mainstream market is the most important segment.

these three point does not bode well for ati.

 

[Confused]

My opinion:

Stop making opinions until you see products from both companies, and to a lesser extent, until you can actually buy them.

 

[mhayenga]

ohhhh yeah..... same bat time, same bat place...

Pointless speculation DANCE-A-THON!!!!

Party like there was no tommorow!!! yaya.....


(sorry, no sleep and studying for an economics test)

 

[mhayenga]

wait wait... maybe I was too rude...

In this dire and desperate and awesome graphics battle there will be one winner... Needless to say, it will be me and my highly discounted 9800pro. Nice to know its waiting for me

 

[Lonyo]

Wow, you cna already buy a 6800U?
No? Then where is nVidia's month advantage? Oh, it doesn't exist.

You can't actually buy either product yet, and one hasn't even been released, and yet ATi is losing its edge?

Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true

So you know for a fact that the 6800nu will beat the X800Pro?
How, when neither card has been released/benched yet?

Oh, and 6800/X800 parts = NOT MAINSTREAM!
The 5900 is high end, the 5700 is mainstream, same 9800 = high, 9600 = mainstream.

nVidia went straight from A-1 silicon, so even if they taped out second, they were quicker to a final product, meaning they got it right first time (which is not something you can really plan for).

You get "silence" for 2 weeks, which is the release date. Why would ATi comment now when they have no evidence as to their performance, they will let the reviews to their talking, and there answer will come when they planned it to.

I'm not being a fanboy ATi, but the OP is such a crock of ****.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: dh19440113
1. These are equivalent cards with 12 pipeline. Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true.
;

so you know how ATI's architecture works eh?.........its like intel and AMD.....AMDS have less transistors and are clocked much lower........doesnt stop them whooping intel in most cases.

ATI's current cards have much lower clocks than Nvidias last set.......didnt stop them beating Nv did it?

different architectures will perform differently....i would say it all comes down to who is the most efficient......its just like sport.....u can have all the muscles and power in the world....but if you have a poor technique (ie poor implementation poor optimization) then all that power is wasted.......but you could have less muscle but have a very good technique and keep up / beat the guy with all the brawn.

but if ATI's card doesnt at least keep up with the 6800 then i would say the extra 100 may not be worth it....

but lets not forget......the 6800 needs two power connectors and requires a 480 watt psu.....so it may be cheaper but i would argue most people are goin to have to shell out for a new psu as well as the new 6800. and thats gonna cost the thick end of 100 bucks.

hopefully...ATI wont have 2 molex connectors

 

[merlocka]

Originally posted by: Lonyo


nVidia went straight from A-1 silicon, so even if they taped out second, they were quicker to a final product, meaning they got it right first time (which is not something you can really plan for).

"got it right the first time" would mean that they would be in production with A0 rev chips.

Your first real chips back from fab are A0
If they make any changes on metal layers, it's a minor rev and the new parts come back as A1,A2, etc..
If they make any all-layer changes, it's a major rev and the parts come back as B0, C0, etc...

Metal spins usually take only a couple weeks for parts if wafers are held at contact. All layer changes take 6-8 weeks depending on the urgency (read, how much you want to spend).

So,

1) nVidia didn't get it right with A0, there was an additional metal spin.
2) We have no idea what rev ATI will be in production with.
3) It's not always a good thing to see A0 on a chip, as there are *ALWAYS* bugs, and it's just a matter of what you can fix with drivers/uCode. If the software fixes aren't too ugly, and performance is good, you move into production and fix the bugs next time you spin metal or whatever.

 

[Genx87]

ATI's current cards have much lower clocks than Nvidias last set.......didnt stop them beating Nv did it?


Ya but ATI's last part had twice as pixel pipelines. So while the Nvidia card was clocked faster it could in theory only do half as much.

This time around both cards have the same amount of pipelines.

but lets not forget......the 6800 needs two power connectors and requires a 480 watt psu.....so it may be cheaper but i would argue most people are goin to have to shell out for a new psu as well as the new 6800. and thats gonna cost the thick end of 100 bucks

6800 Ultra does require two connectors but is recommended a 480 Watt PS. There are reviews that used lower PSUs.

 

[nemesismk2]

Yes ATI has lost their edge, the performance crown, their bottle and their drivers are still buggy!

 

[Keysplayr]

ATI corp is either sitting back, relaxed, knowing that when they release their R420 it will easily best the NV40. Or....
ATI corp is sitting back, tense, getting ready to see their stocks plummet and saying, "WTF do we do now?".

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Genx87
ATI's current cards have much lower clocks than Nvidias last set.......didnt stop them beating Nv did it?


Ya but ATI's last part had twice as pixel pipelines. So while the Nvidia card was clocked faster it could in theory only do half as much.

This time around both cards have the same amount of pipelines.

4x2 = 8
8x1 = 8

Most cards are multitextured, so if there are 4 ipxels, they each have 2 textures, so 4x2 = 8.
Both ATi and nVidia had a level playing field, as 8x1 was only as good as 4x2 since you needed the 2 per pixel.

(Basic explanation - if it makes sense).

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Confused
My opinion:

Stop making opinions until you see products from both companies, and to a lesser extent, until you can actually buy them.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: dh19440113
1. I thought ATi will be the first to roll out with the next gen card. They taped out first right?

So?

2 Nvidia is having a field day, If i was ATi I would try to bust their chops. But all we get is silence, which suggest to me that Ati isn't very well prepared against Nv40's performance. I mean x800xt will be shipped in end of may, thats a month for Nvidia to gloat.

A field day with vaporware...great. Gloat all they want.

3. The x800pro will be priced at $399, compare to geforce 6800 at $299, (as suggest all over internet). These are equivalent cards with 12 pipeline. Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true. To make a mistake like that is foolish for ati. The mainstream market is the most important segment.

$300? I will be very suprised. Has NVDA actually said that?

these three point does not bode well for ati.

No, but they don't bode too badly, either.
The 6800 will not be a $200 or less part, so neither company has shown much of anything useful to 90% (or more) of the gamers out there.

 

[edmundoab]

there are certain games that the 6800 only beats the current 9800XT by less then 20%,
of course there is a driver factor....

Again, we never know how the X800 is going to perform

 

[g3pro]

ati moved their schedule of their 16x1 part 5 months ahead of schedule... * whistles *

 

[Genx87]

4x2 = 8
8x1 = 8

Most cards are multitextured, so if there are 4 ipxels, they each have 2 textures, so 4x2 = 8.
Both ATi and nVidia had a level playing field, as 8x1 was only as good as 4x2 since you needed the 2 per pixel.


If you are doing multitexturing but afaik most games will use single texturing except is some instances and afaik in future titles multitexturing with be replaced with pixel shaders.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: dh19440113
1. I thought ATi will be the first to roll out with the next gen card. They taped out first right?

2 Nvidia is having a field day, If i was ATi I would try to bust their chops. But all we get is silence, which suggest to me that Ati isn't very well prepared against Nv40's performance. I mean x800xt will be shipped in end of may, thats a month for Nvidia to gloat.

3. The x800pro will be priced at $399, compare to geforce 6800 at $299, (as suggest all over internet). These are equivalent cards with 12 pipeline. Nvidia has a huge price/performance advantage if the price are true. To make a mistake like that is foolish for ati. The mainstream market is the most important segment.

these three point does not bode well for ati.

1. None of what you said is fact. Do you know when exactly Nvidia cards will hit retail? and when will ATI's? Just because you announce the product earlier does not mean you will reach the retail chain earlier.

Even if either company reaches the market by 1-3 months earlier that does not mean anything when the product cycle lasts 18 months. The card that is perceived to be better by consumers could sell in ratios of 2:1 or 5:1 or whoever knows therefore selling as much in 2-5 times shorter period of time, or not i dont know. If they were released 6 months apart like 9700pro and 5800 card then it would make a bigger difference. At this point we cannot say clearly who will reach the market faster

2. Sometimes being silent could also mean you will come out of the gate with a "sleeper" hit. Do you remember ATi jumping and screaming about its 9700Pro when it came out? But it came out big that's for sure. You cannot assume because a company is silent and does not tell anything to the press all of a sudden its product is inferior. Going against your statement, Nvidia shouted on top of their lungs how 5800Ultra will kill 9700Pro and it failed miserably. So then what you are suggesting that if a company tells all how great its product is it must be amazing and if it sits quietly, it's in trouble when it's clearly not the case.

3. The prices have not been finalized so this is an assumption based on rumours. I mean you can say pricing a 6800non-ultra at $299 is a relative bargain in comparison. We do not know yet if ATI will try to match Nvidia's pricing or Nvidia will raise its pricing or if the pricing rumours are correct in the first place. Also, your logic only works assuming Nvidia products are at least equal to or better in speed than ATIs for them to be a better choice. If Ati cards perform much faster (much is unlikely of course), then pricing them higher might not be a bad idea. If ati cards are as fast or slower, then ATi will have to change their pricing strategy; but of course all you are doing is referring back to information which has not yet been proven. So just sit tight and wait.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: Genx87

6800 Ultra does require two connectors but is recommended a 480 Watt PS. There are reviews that used lower PSUs.

Sure, some reviewers used lower PSU's, but the testing rigs they used were not set up like a typical gaming computer, complete with high output speakers, DVD burners, cable modems, etc. All these peripheral consume power at the same time. If you're building a testing rig with nothing but a CDROM, of course you might only need 350W PSU, but this is far from reality of the power requirements a typical gaming rig will require.

 

[Genx87]

Sure, some reviewers used lower PSU's, but the testing rigs they used were not set up like a typical gaming computer, complete with high output speakers, DVD burners, cable modems, etc. All these peripheral consume power at the same time. If you're building a testing rig with nothing but a CDROM, of course you might only need 350W PSU, but this is far from reality of the power requirements a typical gaming rig will require.


High output speakers and Cable modems? How do those two things contribute to the systems power consumption?

As for a true gaming machine you dont need a dvd burner. All you want is a HD, CD-ROM, MB, Video Card, and CPU.

The rig I have below is powered by a 300 Watt PS. Just add a 160 GB drive onto it.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: Genx87

6800 Ultra does require two connectors but is recommended a 480 Watt PS. There are reviews that used lower PSUs.

Sure, some reviewers used lower PSU's, but the testing rigs they used were not set up like a typical gaming computer, complete with high output speakers, DVD burners, cable modems, etc. All these peripheral consume power at the same time. If you're building a testing rig with nothing but a CDROM, of course you might only need 350W PSU, but this is far from reality of the power requirements a typical gaming rig will require.

that makes no sense. speakers and cable modems have their own power supplies. and i doubt anyone will be burning dvd's while playing far cry. id worry more about people with multiple hard drives and 20 fans.

i personally have 4 hard drives, cdr & dvd rom in my system. i got a antec true blue 480watt ps too tho so im cool to upgrade

JBLaze

 

[noxipoo]

useless thread, you can't buy either

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: JonnyBlaze

Originally posted by: Rudee

Originally posted by: Genx87

6800 Ultra does require two connectors but is recommended a 480 Watt PS. There are reviews that used lower PSUs.

Sure, some reviewers used lower PSU's, but the testing rigs they used were not set up like a typical gaming computer, complete with high output speakers, DVD burners, cable modems, etc. All these peripheral consume power at the same time. If you're building a testing rig with nothing but a CDROM, of course you might only need 350W PSU, but this is far from reality of the power requirements a typical gaming rig will require.

that makes no sense. speakers and cable modems have their own power supplies. and i doubt anyone will be burning dvd's while playing far cry. id worry more about people with multiple hard drives and 20 fans.

i personally have 4 hard drives, cdr & dvd rom in my system. i got a antec true blue 480watt ps too tho so im cool to upgrade

JBLaze

Yeah, multiple harddrives and cooling fans will do it.

 

[Fern]

Hey Genx87

"As for a true gaming machine you dont need a dvd burner. All you want is a HD, CD-ROM, MB, Video Card, and CPU"


Damn, looks like I wasted all my money on that ram stuff for no reason! LOL JK

 

[reever]

ATI corp is sitting back, tense, getting ready to see their stocks plummet

Stock fluctuates based on profit and sales, most of the sales come from low to midrange cards and OEM's, the rest makes very little difference.

 

[Genx87]

Heh, 640k baby!