Is bigotry wrong?

[Dr. Zaus]

When it's against people for being chronically poor?

Why then, do news broadcasters still refer to people as "Trailer Park Trash," or speak publicly of those who accept "hand outs?" Is it any different to make such assumptions of those who live in poor areas, or require public assistance in order to survive, than it is to make negative judgments of any other group? It appears to be okay to be whomever you happen to be these days, at least publicly, as long as you are not poor.

Now keep in mind it doesn't matter the color race ethnicity religion sexual orientation height or gender of the poor person; it is JUST bigotry against people for being poor.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Think you need to add another choice. Those that are poor by choice. Some choose to not work and live off the system to accomplish that end. They do exist and are out there. For many others it is not really a choice for differing reasons from mental health to just born with inferior intelligence.

Those that make a conscious choice I have no sympathy for.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Great job with the sensationalist title and going along with the article and suggesting that being chronically poor automatically equals trailer trash and they all accept handouts. Sure, many of them do, but definitely not all.

Here's the invalid reasoning you're both using: trailer trash are poor. Ana is poor; therefore, Ana is trailer trash.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Think you need to add another choice. Those that are poor by choice. Some choose to not work and live off the system to accomplish that end. They do exist and are out there. For many others it is not really a choice for differing reasons from mental health to just born with inferior intelligence.

Those that make a conscious choice I have no sympathy for.

If choosing to be poor means they bring it upon themselves then I think that's what I was getting at with the second answer .

Thank you for the response.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Some of us choose to be poor due to our professions. Why one of the worlds nations with the highest standard of living treats food service workers as the lowest unskilled profession I'll never know.

 

[Drako]

Duh, it's OK if they are white-folk.

 

[Infohawk]

What is the definition of bigotry? Some of the definitions out there pretty much apply to almost everyone on the planet:

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions

I mean most of the people on this board attack any opinion they don't agree with.

In any case, I don't really see any reason to discriminate against the poor.

 

[Moonbeam]

Why do you ask if bigotry is wrong? What do you mean by wrong?

A bigot does not know he is a bigot because a bigot is right. So if you believe that bigotry is wrong and you believe you are right about this, then surely you too are also a bigot. You will share in common with other bigots one thing, the certain knowledge that you are right and that will mean you also share one other thing, the complete and total incapacity to see that you are a bigot.

Do these facts suggest anything to you? If you are a bigot then they will not. But if you are honest and still retain some capacity for real thinking then you will note that bigotry springs from the belief in good and evil. Now who doesn't believe in that? Well me for one.

A bigot is a savior. He wants the world to be good and he wants you to know that he is right. He is a crusader, the right hand of God. He wants you to stop your evil ways.

One upon a time, I set out to save the world, to demonstrate the existence of ultimate Good and because I wanted my proof to be air tight, it had to pass my own personal smell test. I demanded of myself that I be completely honest and because of that bit of stupidity, I failed. I saw through everything and discovered that everything I had been taught and hoped to prove was a total lie, a figment of my imagination, a delusion, a prison in which I had been trapped. All meaning, everything important, God, love, truth, poof, right out the window. There is nothing, no meaning, no roof above, no floor on which to rest your feet. And of course all this killed me. So I died. I just gave up and surrendered, collapsed. Then a blast of wind hit my house and I woke up. hehehehehehe

If you don't want to be a bigot then take a great big shit and you will be able to eat the fruits of life again. Nature doesn't like a vacuum and if you empty your tea cup she will fill it with love.

 

[Zebo]

I think so. Being rich and poor are often beyond your control or abilities like race is as we are finding out in this recession.

Often times ppl think money is happiness but really it just buys shit that fills voids in our sadness. We get off buying shit for it's exclusivity or scarcity more than having the products. If you were on a desert island by yourself, would you care if you were driving a Lamborghini or a Toyota? Not really. So having lots money itself to buy that stuff isnt what does it for us. It's one upping the other guy.

FWIW one of the most beautiful man I've ever met was poor. Mano Salazar. He had a huge family and was type of guy who would give you anything, his last dollar. He did free work for ppl at his church after he was done framing houses all day. He died at 44 worked into the ground and you should have seen his funeral literally thousands showed up. He just couldn't manage money at all. Poor ability.

 

[Munky]

People are entitled to their own opinions and judgements. You might not approve of their opinions, but it's equally wrong if you try to impose your own beliefs on them.

 

[shortylickens]

Depends on what kind of bigotry you mean.

If you are talking about burning crosses on someones lawn or lynching them: No, cuz you are infringing on other Americans freedoms.

If you are talking about not being politically correct then no. The freedom to speak is much more important than the non-freedom to not be offended.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Why do you ask if bigotry is wrong? What do you mean by wrong?

A bigot does not know he is a bigot because a bigot is right. So if you believe that bigotry is wrong and you believe you are right about this, then surely you too are also a bigot. You will share in common with other bigots one thing, the certain knowledge that you are right and that will mean you also share one other thing, the complete and total incapacity to see that you are a bigot.

Do these facts suggest anything to you? If you are a bigot then they will not. But if you are honest and still retain some capacity for real thinking then you will note that bigotry springs from the belief in good and evil. Now who doesn't believe in that? Well me for one.

A bigot is a savior. He wants the world to be good and he wants you to know that he is right. He is a crusader, the right hand of God. He wants you to stop your evil ways.

One upon a time, I set out to save the world, to demonstrate the existence of ultimate Good and because I wanted my proof to be air tight, it had to pass my own personal smell test. I demanded of myself that I be completely honest and because of that bit of stupidity, I failed. I saw through everything and discovered that everything I had been taught and hoped to prove was a total lie, a figment of my imagination, a delusion, a prison in which I had been trapped. All meaning, everything important, God, love, truth, poof, right out the window. There is nothing, no meaning, no roof above, no floor on which to rest your feet. And of course all this killed me. So I died. I just gave up and surrendered, collapsed. Then a blast of wind hit my house and I woke up. hehehehehehe

If you don't want to be a bigot then take a great big shit and you will be able to eat the fruits of life again. Nature doesn't like a vacuum and if you empty your tea cup she will fill it with love.

So, while you are not a bigot (which is super rare) it doesn't much matter because bigotry is cool by you?

If you are talking about not being politically correct then no. The freedom to speak is much more important than the non-freedom to not be offended.

Could you give an example in this context?

 

[JEDIYoda]

So, while you are not a bigot (which is super rare) it doesn't much matter because bigotry is cool by you?

you don`t comprehend very well do you?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It's wrong to be bigoted against someone for things they can't control. It's not wrong to harbor resentment against specific people for things that they can control but refuse to. If I meet an elderly black man who had to grow up poor because of Jim Crow, who couldn't pursue a college education because no opportunities were made available to him, who did whatever he could to get by despite the challenges he faced, I'm infinitely more impressed than by someone who got by on a degree from Yale that he got because his father was an alum. But if someone has the means and access to succeed, and they try to leech as much out of welfare and food stamps as they can to justify their own laziness, I feel no sympathy. The more contact I have with welfare recipients, the more I think welfare needs to be severely overhauled due to abuse. Am I bigoted against the poor? Of course not. But ultimately, I think that anyone's success or failure needs to be determined by what they're willing to give of themselves, and if you try to live your entire life at someone else's expense, you don't deserve my sympathy, rich or poor.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

you don`t comprehend very well do you?

This, 100%

 

[Mirox]

sure it is wrong but all people project their insecurities or misplaced anger

I lived in an area that had homeless coming to and from. I can say 99% of them looked like they're out of it. Like they were there physically but mentally not present. Others clearly had something wrong with them mentally, talking to themselves etc.

There was an older lady who had Tourette's and would visit the nearby YWCA often, she clearly couldn't have a job as nobody would hire her with such a condition, she was quite loud at times and you can tell it was something she struggled with greatly but couldn't control.

So definitely not all people are poor because they're lazy. Some fell into it due to life cirumstances and were so desperate they gave up and stopped trying to pick themselves up.

The problem is that while it's those people who need the help, the truly lazy but capable of working are taking advantage of the system. Question is how do you fix the system without hurting those who need it the most.

Me and the boyfriend are high income. Gay, no kids. His income taxes alone are often above $20k a year. I won't mind paying taxes that if I saw the money go to those who actually needed it but so much of it is wasted on stupid shit and lazy people who are able to work. That and the entitlement some people have toward others' money. He works 10-12 hours days 7 days a week sometimes, as do I, some lazy welfare slob has no right to my money, especially when they shameless take from those who truly have nothing

 

[Atreus21]

What is the definition of bigotry? Some of the definitions out there pretty much apply to almost everyone on the planet:
I mean most of the people on this board attack any opinion they don't agree with.

In any case, I don't really see any reason to discriminate against the poor.

I like Chesterton's definition. Bigotry is not being sure that you're right, but being unable to imagine how you could possibly be wrong.

 

[werepossum]

Think you need to add another choice. Those that are poor by choice. Some choose to not work and live off the system to accomplish that end. They do exist and are out there. For many others it is not really a choice for differing reasons from mental health to just born with inferior intelligence.

Those that make a conscious choice I have no sympathy for.

This, exactly. Some people are poor because of a single mistake, others because of some inborn limitation. There are many who are just too trifling and lazy to strike at a snake, and others because they follow a particular calling and willingly make a sacrifice. Can't really group all poor persons together.

 

[FoBoT]

everyone has the 'right' to view other people's characteristics any way they want. people that want to judge others can.

now is it 'politically correct'?
the important thing isn't people thoughts. i don't believe government nor society has the right to police people's thoughts

there is a need to police people's actions towards others and i think it is ok for part of that to be laws to protect 'groups' in social/legal contracts from the actions of others, but not from others thoughts

so if you want to hate poor people, that is up to you. if you want to admire poor people, be my guest

 

[Icepick]

So, while you are not a bigot (which is super rare) it doesn't much matter because bigotry is cool by you?


Could you give an example in this context?

Here's my take on Moonbeam's post in (very) simple terms. This is only IMHO so take it with a grain of salt.
Basically, everything we think we know and all knowledge we have acquired is a lie. Therefore, the judgements that we base our bigoted thinking on is built upon a foundation of lies. Realize this and abandon the lies (judgements) and you'll "see the truth". Only then can we be truly free.

Just my very simple 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

I'm still learning.

 

[Icepick]

It's wrong to be bigoted against someone for things they can't control. It's not wrong to harbor resentment against specific people for things that they can control but refuse to. If I meet an elderly black man who had to grow up poor because of Jim Crow, who couldn't pursue a college education because no opportunities were made available to him, who did whatever he could to get by despite the challenges he faced, I'm infinitely more impressed than by someone who got by on a degree from Yale that he got because his father was an alum. But if someone has the means and access to succeed, and they try to leech as much out of welfare and food stamps as they can to justify their own laziness, I feel no sympathy. The more contact I have with welfare recipients, the more I think welfare needs to be severely overhauled due to abuse. Am I bigoted against the poor? Of course not. But ultimately, I think that anyone's success or failure needs to be determined by what they're willing to give of themselves, and if you try to live your entire life at someone else's expense, you don't deserve my sympathy, rich or poor.

Seems like a very black and white view of the world. How do you know that the black man in your example had absolutely no chance to change their situation? How do we know that the Yale person is a privileged a__hole? There are millions of factors that shape a person and affect their outcomes in life. Because of this I believe there are no simple answers. I hope people aren't as judgemental of you as you are of them.

Peace...

 

[mrCide]

Why do you ask if bigotry is wrong? What do you mean by wrong?

A bigot does not know he is a bigot because a bigot is right. So if you believe that bigotry is wrong and you believe you are right about this, then surely you too are also a bigot. You will share in common with other bigots one thing, the certain knowledge that you are right and that will mean you also share one other thing, the complete and total incapacity to see that you are a bigot.

Do these facts suggest anything to you? If you are a bigot then they will not. But if you are honest and still retain some capacity for real thinking then you will note that bigotry springs from the belief in good and evil. Now who doesn't believe in that? Well me for one.

A bigot is a savior. He wants the world to be good and he wants you to know that he is right. He is a crusader, the right hand of God. He wants you to stop your evil ways.

One upon a time, I set out to save the world, to demonstrate the existence of ultimate Good and because I wanted my proof to be air tight, it had to pass my own personal smell test. I demanded of myself that I be completely honest and because of that bit of stupidity, I failed. I saw through everything and discovered that everything I had been taught and hoped to prove was a total lie, a figment of my imagination, a delusion, a prison in which I had been trapped. All meaning, everything important, God, love, truth, poof, right out the window. There is nothing, no meaning, no roof above, no floor on which to rest your feet. And of course all this killed me. So I died. I just gave up and surrendered, collapsed. Then a blast of wind hit my house and I woke up. hehehehehehe

If you don't want to be a bigot then take a great big shit and you will be able to eat the fruits of life again. Nature doesn't like a vacuum and if you empty your tea cup she will fill it with love.

WB

 

[Moonbeam]

Here's my take on Moonbeam's post in (very) simple terms. This is only IMHO so take it with a grain of salt.
Basically, everything we think we know and all knowledge we have acquired is a lie. Therefore, the judgements that we base our bigoted thinking on is built upon a foundation of lies. Realize this and abandon the lies (judgements) and you'll "see the truth". Only then can we be truly free.

Just my very simple 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

I'm still learning.

Pretty much this but the way you realize it, or what helped me realize it was in attempting to prove the factual correctness of my bigotry. I examined the assumptions on which my premises were based and found them to be unproven, simply things I had accepted on faith and no matter how cleaver I tried to be it always came to the same thing. Bigotry is built on unexamined assumptions and they are unexamined because we don't examine what we feel is surely correct. We don't think to look deep like we wouldn't respond to somebody questioning if the sky is blue. We know it's blue and that's the end of it.

But when it comes to the emotional aspect of bigotry, there's a motivational component that makes things worse than our belief in the color of the sky and that's the ego aspect that tells us we are good because we believe what we believe. To free oneself of bigotry means you will become evil to those from whom you caught your bigotry. There's social pressure to keep you in line, both internal and external.

----------

WB----------> Thanks

 

[Dr. Zaus]

To free oneself of bigotry means you will become evil to those from whom you caught your bigotry.

Is it necessary that the bigot think you evil for not ascribing to his own bigotry?

 

[Moonbeam]

So, while you are not a bigot (which is super rare) it doesn't much matter because bigotry is cool by you?

If you hold bigotry in contempt you must hold yourself in contempt for your own bigotry. This is because you already do hold yourself in contempt for your own bigotry and project that onto others. Since we don't want to become conscious of this self hate, we are dead in the water.

Now what I am saying is that since we can't help the fact that we are bigots, having been turned into them at an early age where we had no possible defense, it is no good now unconsciously feeding the cycle by believing you are justified to hate bigots. It you justify hatred of bigotry you simply add to your feeling your self hate is justified, which is what you were taught to do.

So the only thing you can consciously do about your bigotry, if you can't get back to the source through psychotherapy, say, is to at least stop feeding the monster with contempt for others. Your contempt is not justified. Folk didn't become bigots because they wanted to. They became bigots because they had to to survive, just like all of us did. To punish others for what they do not understand is to be just like them in not understanding. So every time you feel that urge to condemn a bigot you can try to let go of it. You have to forget about punishing yourself if you fail or flattering yourself if you succeed. Mental health isn't about ego.