Is BMW really that good of a automobile manufacturer?

[DivideBYZero]

In my opinion, yes, but then I own two.

In the US I get the impression that the 'snobby' owners are an issue, but from what I can tell, the people calling all owners snobs are even worse and almost create the problem.

Arkaign: It's ///M, m8. Three stripes! That's been burning my ass for weeks now about your posts...

 

[rh71]

I am on boards everyday and there have been people who say their new X5 is heads & shoulders above the Range Rover Sport or ML 550 they also own. People have it as a 2nd vehicle to their Porsches that they track. There's no question it's about the driving experience.

I personally have the well-awarded I6 engine and the thing even though is not the fastest will deliver at the proper moment. The "truck" drives like it's on rails in every situation - you can tell BMW engineering is top notch. You can't beat that.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
In my opinion, yes, but then I own two.

In the US I get the impression that the 'snobby' owners are an issue, but from what I can tell, the people calling all owners snobs are even worse and almost create the problem.

Arkaign: It's ///M, m8. Three stripes! That's been burning my ass for weeks now about your posts...

lol, I'm lazy, but just for you :

////M

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Do they have the best interiors...no. Do they have the most beautiful designs...not really. Do they have the fastest engines...no.

What BMW is phenomenal is choosing quality parts where the parts really count and making them work together so well.

As an example, BMW chooses to use inline 6 engines instead of V6 engines. This engine design limits them somewhat on power output and makes for a more difficult packaging...but is silky smooth. That combined with the fantastic manual transmissions used in every BMW result in a driveline experience that is rarely matched in the industry. The same priorities go into their suspension choices and other areas of interest. The summed up parts and engineering result in cars that are a blast to drive.

So they may not win on a lot of fronts...but a BMW always drives like a dream.

Agreed. I think BMW's make a great overall package. They're not the best at anything, but taken together, they do everything well.

 

[RichUK]

Yes.

 

[Doggiedog]

I've owned an E36 BMW 325i, Lexus GS300, Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT, and now an E90 BMW 335i. I've also owned an Acura SUV. I haven't owned an MB or Audi so I can't speak for them but I can say for the other cars they all seem to target a different type of driver.

I don't believe BMWs are the most luxurious (at least at the lower end) but they are the most spirited. Lexus is not very spirited at all but they are so comfortable. It's like driving your Laz boy couch. Infiniti is like a compromise between comfort, luxury and sportiness. My Acura MDX wasn't a sedan so it's not fair to compare but for an SUV it wasn't too bad to drive, wasn't very luxurious and wasn't exceptionally comfortable. So I really think it's what the consumer's preference is. Badge, performance, cost, reliability, etc.

For the person that said the average person can't tell btwn a Corolla and BMW I would challenge them to drive my 335i and say it's no different from a Corolla. I had to borrow my friend's Scion tC for 3 months while waiting for my car to arrive and it is night and day even driving casually.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: jtvang125

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
Do they have the best interiors...no. Do they have the most beautiful designs...not really. Do they have the fastest engines...no.

What BMW is phenomenal is choosing quality parts where the parts really count and making them work together so well.

As an example, BMW chooses to use inline 6 engines instead of V6 engines. This engine design limits them somewhat on power output and makes for a more difficult packaging...but is silky smooth. That combined with the fantastic manual transmissions used in every BMW result in a driveline experience that is rarely matched in the industry. The same priorities go into their suspension choices and other areas of interest. The summed up parts and engineering result in cars that are a blast to drive.

So they may not win on a lot of fronts...but a BMW always drives like a dream.

People always say it's about the driving experience when talking about BMW but here in Socal the majority of the drivers will never drive to it's full potential to really feel the difference. If we can drive blind and blindfolded these drivers and put them in a corolla they'll say both cars drive the same. Pretty much they drive a BMW because it's a BMW.

That was my impression too until I drove one.

 

[Mutilator]

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
For the person that said the average person can't tell btwn a Corolla and BMW I would challenge them to drive my 335i and say it's no different from a Corolla. I had to borrow my friend's Scion tC for 3 months while waiting for my car to arrive and it is night and day even driving casually.

Considering I just upgraded from a 05 Corolla CE to a 09 135i a couple months ago if someone can't tell the difference between the 2 there is something very VERY wrong with their senses.

And how good is BMW? Even their monthly statements are better.

 

[mitaiwan82]

They're usually a great drive, while pampering you a bit with some luxury bits. I currently have a '94 Miata and '99 M3, and I would say the Miata is just as fun as the M3 to drive, just in a lighter/slower kind of way

 

[KDKPSJ]

I totally agree with PricklyPete as a E90 owner. It's good mix of everything, compare to IS, C, TSX and A4, with the exception of Infiniti G, which is as good mix as 3 series. If I were to switch my car next month, I would only consider Infiniti G.

If you can't distinguish driving dynamic of BMW from other similar cars (ie. 3 series and Miata are not similar), the answer is quite simple: You just don't know how to drive.

Or you just hate BMW for some reasons (ie. can't afford, hit by BMW, or pwned by BMW, etc).

 

[Jabbernyx]

Yes. There's a reason why the Lincoln LS depreciates like crazy compared to Bimmers and Mercedes

 

[Kadarin]

I went from a 400hp '05 GTO to a 414hp '08 M3. HUGE difference...

<3 my M3

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: jtvang125
If we can drive blind and blindfolded these drivers and put them in a corolla they'll say both cars drive the same. Pretty much they drive a BMW because it's a BMW.

Have you ever driven a car in your life?

The second you turn the steering wheel, you can tell the difference.

And I have owned BMWs and Toyotas to compare. I agree that many BMW owners don't really care about the "driving experience", but that doesn't mean that it isn't there or isn't noticeable with day-to-day driving.

 

[RU482]

There is a guy in my office that has an X5. He has the dealership loaner car about 3 months total out of the year. The funny part is, the dealership is 70 miles away, and they bring the car to him each time

 

[mwmorph]

BMWs have sweet gearboxes. My favorite is probably a E46 325Ci Vert. Sweet, docile, easy daily driver that is still quite fun to drive and it's a very. People think Verts are girly but imo, verts provide me more smiles per mile than any other type of car. Decent weather + convertible + roadtrip crusing = heaven.

I've also driven a few 330i/Ci(I used to work at a Euro luxury dealership) and a M3(E46/S54) and all in all, they're nice driving cars with very nice transmissions and the smoothest engine you can buy today(I6 are naturally balanced). Do I think they're worth 40K+ for a small, compact car? Probably not. Would I not mind a late model BMW if I had the cash? Probably.

There is a difference between a BMW and a Corolla. The BMW just feels German and Solid. When doors close, there' a solid thunk and when you drive it, it feels like you're not so much driving a car as is command of the road. Unfortunately, that doesn't translate into reliability. The only thing more expensive than a new German car is a used German car and the dealership/shop experiences I've had are always, always some of the worst I've ever imagined were possible.

I worked in the Matainence department so when we got cars in, we would order parts to refurbish the cars we got. Nothing big, new brakes here, scheduled matainence there and I must have dealt with every BMW/Mini dealer in the MD/VA/DC metro area and I have to say, EVERY single BMW dealership and even most of the independent shops are filled with some of the most biased, worthless, scumbags on the planet.

A oil change, air filter change top off of fluids and 30 point visual inspection should not be credited at 3 hours of labor(!!!) and a $700 exprience. Ford does the same thing for $50 and on the books (for FORD at least) it's a 12 minute labor bill.

The "Recommended" 60k mile valve adjustment is absolute bullshit (Some dealers even told me it should be done ever 30K!). There is no BMW 6 or 8 cylinder in recent memory that uses anything but no-matainence hydraulic bucket lifters, much less is it a 7 hour(!) $3000(!!) affair. Add that to the fact, outside of exotics and motorcycles, I have never seen a mass market car that needs valve adjustments every 60k miles.

I didn't get tricked by that since I used to be an ASE Master Cert technician but any normal owner would be throwing money down the drain like Amy Winehouse pops pills.

If you want a BMW, great, but make sure you're either familiar with cars or has a friend that is so you dont get ripped off.

Are BMWs good cars? Absolutely
Are they great cars? If it fits the niche you're looking for.
Are they the BEST/Ultimate driving machine? Probably not, but they are a pretty good mix of daily drivability, build quality and somewhat sporty handling.

In conclusion
BMW: Comfortable, fun, expensive and with hands down consistently the worst dealers I've ever dealt with(yes EVERY single BMW dealer is uniformly as bad and looking to rip you off as another)

 

[SSSnail]

Go drive one, and you'll understand.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: jtvang125

People always say it's about the driving experience when talking about BMW but here in Socal the majority of the drivers will never drive to it's full potential to really feel the difference. If we can drive blind and blindfolded these drivers and put them in a corolla they'll say both cars drive the same. Pretty much they drive a BMW because it's a BMW.

This simply isn't true (at least to the extent you're implying that driving a BMW is interchangeable with driving a Corolla). You could drive both cars at 10 MPH and tell the difference. BMWs are, among mainstream cars, the most focused on handling and the overall driving experience. Obviously dedicated sports cars can outperform most BMWs, but when it comes to a sedan or reasonably affordable coupe that you can easily use as a daily commuter, BMWs are unparalleled.

 

[Colt45]

The German luxury marques are... there's nothing like them.


Paraphrase from a foreign movie I saw a while back:
// one cab driver is giving the other heck for buying a renault; the second is claiming dislike of germans as the reason of the purchase.
"You know how bad the polish had it in WWII? what does the polish head of state drive?"
"Mercedes Benz"
"How about the jews? They had a horrible time with the nazis. What do you think the israeli politicians drive?"
"Mercedes Benz"

I laughed my ass off at that.. so true.

 

[QueBert]

My Ex boss had me pick their BMW 750 last year from the dealership. He told me to test it out coming back, I was surprised he encouraged I have some fun with it lol. It drove beautifully, acceleration was very nice and the breaking was phenomenal. Out of fear of getting pulled over I didn't go over 80. It was so smooth and fun to drive. When I dropped it off and got back into my Taurus, I almost wanted to walk home lol. Only thing I didn't like was the radio controls, I didn't have enough time with the car to figure them out, seemed overly complex for no good reason. When I came up to the first red light in my Taurus the difference in the breaking made me want to cry. It was like my car didn't even have breaks.

If I could afford any car it would probably be a BMW, those 25 minutes I had with his just cemented my desires to own one. And I have driven other nice cars, but never owned one. So my opinions all come from at most an afternoon with a car.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: QueBert
the breaking was phenomenal.

Strong unintentional irony here.

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: jtvang125
If we can drive blind and blindfolded these drivers and put them in a corolla they'll say both cars drive the same. Pretty much they drive a BMW because it's a BMW.

Have you ever driven a car in your life?

The second you turn the steering wheel, you can tell the difference.

And I have owned BMWs and Toyotas to compare. I agree that many BMW owners don't really care about the "driving experience", but that doesn't mean that it isn't there or isn't noticeable with day-to-day driving.

I was thinking the same thing, I'm not overly impressed with the BMW's I've driven, they are nice, smooth, and gimicky. They are not comfortable, or worth double or triple the money over some of the competition. The Corolla is a flaming turd of a car, anyone that cannot tell the difference blindfolded after being hit in the head with a frying pan has no business driving.

 

[DivideBYZero]

BMW's are 'gimicky'?

 

[lurk3r]

Yes, one example, there is a sensor in the light that detects particles in the cabin and will automatically turn the air to recycle if there's too much dust in the cabin, that has to have costed thousands of dollars to engineer and implement, and adds zero real value. Everyone knows BMW's never see dirt

I like their concept, and try very hard to like the cars, but when an old owner, or the salesman tries pointing out all the "features", I just keep hearing "gimick". So far I haven't driven the //M, only a few 325's, the awd version, I am looking for a bigger one, but manuals are few and far between in the bigger cars, and the 3 series are just too cramped for me.

 

[Arkaign]

Mercedes generally has the most feature-rich cars available, and Audi is not far behind. I can't see BMW being that gadget-oriented, beyond the iDrive system (which is annoying for new drivers, but becomes old hat to those who have it for a while).

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Mercedes generally has the most feature-rich cars available, and Audi is not far behind. I can't see BMW being that gadget-oriented, beyond the iDrive system (which is annoying for new drivers, but becomes old hat to those who have it for a while).

In my experience Mercedes is by far and away the most conservative of all cars feature wise.

Safety features, maybe, but for the most part mercedes hold onto older tech as long as they can.

Mercedes was the last to implement bluetooth support, still using specific cell phone cradles into 2006 maybe even 2007.

Mercedes has the most archaic interface for COMAND. The menus and GUI look older, the interface is ergonomically an older design, etc.

The sterotypes hold true. For the all popular, important mid size luxury cars, the most to least tech/gizmo/toy laden are:
Infiniti Mxx
Acura RL/TL
Audi A6
BMW 5xx
large gap
Mercedes E Class

I have a 2006 E500 myself. Bluetooth was not an option for the year, neither are such toys like 3D GPS, ipod capability, lane keep, led tailights, adaptive headlights, DVD audio or video, etc.