Is cheap gaming dead?

[zendari]

The release of the new $600 MSRP 7800 GTX's got me thinking.

The last rig I bought was around late 2002, almost 3 years ago. Back then, creating a topnotch PC gaming rig mainly consisted of the following:

$200 9500 non pro & softmod
$80 athlon XP cpu
$80 motherboard
$120 for 512 mb of ram

total that up for $480

Now, 2 and a half years later, an athlon 64 is pretty much required IMO to get good performance out of your games. so now we are looking at

$600 7800 GTX (possibly $500 for a regular GT or lower)
$150 athlon 64 3000+
$130 for a good skt 939 mobo, maybe $100 for a cheaper one
$80 for 1 gig of valueram

this totals to $960. double what I paid in 2002.

Obviously there are many other factors involved, and perhaps it isn't a fair comparison. But prices for these GPUs IMO are getting out of hand.

 

[Aisengard]

Er, wasn't the 9700Pro the top-notch gaming card two years ago? And I'm sure it was more than $200.

 

[Insomniak]

Gaming on the PC was never cheap. If you think it was, you're delusional.

 

[imported_shaw]

6600GT is still a damn good card ya know. Knock off like $450.

Or, for $300, there's the 6800GT.

The 9500 non pro to me was never top of the line. It went from 9700Pro to 9800Pro for top of the line during that generation. 9500 was a budget card.

I myself picked up a 9800Pro the instant the dropped to $200, great ass card.

You're comparing a budget card to a brand new top of the line new generation nVidia card.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: zendari
The release of the new $600 MSRP 7800 GTX's got me thinking.

The last rig I bought was around late 2002, almost 3 years ago. Back then, creating a topnotch PC gaming rig mainly consisted of the following:

$200 9500 non pro & softmod
$80 athlon XP cpu
$80 motherboard
$120 for 512 mb of ram

total that up for $480

Now, 2 and a half years later, an athlon 64 is pretty much required IMO to get good performance out of your games. so now we are looking at

$600 7800 GTX (possibly $500 for a regular GT or lower)
$150 athlon 64 3000+
$130 for a good skt 939 mobo, maybe $100 for a cheaper one
$80 for 1 gig of valueram

this totals to $960. double what I paid in 2002.

Obviously there are many other factors involved, and perhaps it isn't a fair comparison. But prices for these GPUs IMO are getting out of hand.

No, cheap gaming is not dead. Look at the two systems you are comparing. They aren't even in the same league. You're comparing a radeon 9500 to a 7800GTX. Maybe if you were comparing the Radeon 9700 Pro's launch price, they would be more comparable, especially if you threw a full gig of memory into that AXP system back when memory was more expensive, and there you go. Now they're nearly the same price.

Here's how you do cheap gaming.

$160 PNY Geforce 6800NU 128MB AGP (softmod it if possible, even better)
$80 Sempron 2800+ 90nm
$70 Epox 8KDA3j s754 motherboard
$80 for 1GB value ram

Total: $390

There you have it. Cheap gaming that will perform GREAT. If you overclock the Sempron to 2.4ghz, even better! Granted, you're not going to get 16x12 + eye candy out of it, but if you're looking to make a cheap rig, you obviously aren't looking for that kind of experience.

 

[gobucks]

yeah, comparing the middle of the road 9500 non-pro to the top-of-the-line 7800GTX isn't really fair. I know for a fact that the MSRP for a GeForce 4 Ti 4600 was $399 when it was released. The 9500/9700 series came later, and I'm sure that the 9700 Pro was at least that high at launch. So, granted, the cards are going up in price, but there are still quality cards at lower price points, and they can usually run all the newest games with most of the features enabled. Back then, there was the Ti 4200 for $200, and the 4400 for $300. Then there was the 9500 Pro for like $200 and the 9700 non-pro for $300. This generation there are 9800 Pros and 6600GTs for $200 (now close to $150) and there are 6800GTs and X800XLs for $300.

You just need to be a little more realistic in your choices. If you buy a high end card, it's because you are prepared to spend a crapload for it. Graphics companies know this, and so the highest end chip keeps going up in price. They also know that their bread and butter is the midrange and low-end segments. In the low end, they compete mostly on price. In the midrange, companies know they need to provide the best possible performance while keeping the design simple enough to mass produce. After the disappointing performance of the last generation midrange cards, like the 5600/5700 and the 9600, both companies got the message and are making appealing $200 and $300 offerings again. These price points have not beeng going up with time, since people in that range are sensitive to price hikes. If you are buying a midrange system, you really should stay in this range. Also, a 7800GTX would perform like crap with a 3000+ and 512MB RAM anyways, since it is often CPU limited even with an FX-55.

 

[kmmatney]

Gaming on the PC used to be very cheap. In 1999 I had a Celeron 500@ 800 Mhz ($60), and a $45 Voodoo3 1000. I think the fastest cpu you could get at the time as a Pentium III 850 Mhz, and the Voodoo 1000 wasn't too far away from the Voodoo 3000 in performance (any glide game played perfect). A nice gaming setup for $100 in the cpu and video card.

 

[hans030390]

no, my 6600gt will last forever!!!!

As more games come out, no, cheap gaming is not dead. unless you mean "is my cheap gaming rig dead"...no, it will be soon, but cheap gaming will always exist unless you stick with your cheap rig that you have now...

but my 6600gt has sm3.0, so im set for a few years lol yeah right...ps3 here i come...

 

[Insomniak]

Radeon 9700 Pro was around $350 - $400 when it launched.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=1683&p=2

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Avalon

Originally posted by: zendari
The release of the new $600 MSRP 7800 GTX's got me thinking.

The last rig I bought was around late 2002, almost 3 years ago. Back then, creating a topnotch PC gaming rig mainly consisted of the following:

$200 9500 non pro & softmod
$80 athlon XP cpu
$80 motherboard
$120 for 512 mb of ram

total that up for $480

Now, 2 and a half years later, an athlon 64 is pretty much required IMO to get good performance out of your games. so now we are looking at

$600 7800 GTX (possibly $500 for a regular GT or lower)
$150 athlon 64 3000+
$130 for a good skt 939 mobo, maybe $100 for a cheaper one
$80 for 1 gig of valueram

this totals to $960. double what I paid in 2002.

Obviously there are many other factors involved, and perhaps it isn't a fair comparison. But prices for these GPUs IMO are getting out of hand.

No, cheap gaming is not dead. Look at the two systems you are comparing. They aren't even in the same league. You're comparing a radeon 9500 to a 7800GTX. Maybe if you were comparing the Radeon 9700 Pro's launch price, they would be more comparable, especially if you threw a full gig of memory into that AXP system back when memory was more expensive, and there you go. Now they're nearly the same price.

Here's how you do cheap gaming.

$160 PNY Geforce 6800NU 128MB AGP (softmod it if possible, even better)
$80 Sempron 2800+ 90nm
$70 Epox 8KDA3j s754 motherboard
$80 for 1GB value ram

Total: $390

There you have it. Cheap gaming that will perform GREAT. If you overclock the Sempron to 2.4ghz, even better! Granted, you're not going to get 16x12 + eye candy out of it, but if you're looking to make a cheap rig, you obviously aren't looking for that kind of experience.

Well, the idea was to convert the 9500 into a 9700 using the mod. I don't remember when exactly that came about, but it was quite popular IIRC.

But for the sake of argument, take a 9700 pro and add on $200. You could throw a full gig in, but was a full gig required in 2002 the way it is now? And how well does a sempron perform now compared to an athlon XP then?

The difference between getting a 9500 then and a 6800 now is that the 9500 could mod into what was basically a top of the line graphics card. Even modding the 6800, the best you have is a neutered GT.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: zendari
Is cheap gaming dead?

heck no . . . the consoles are relatively cheap and for the next 2 or 3 years, they will best PC gaming at 5x the price.

i guess you mean PC gaming.

Not really. Software LAGS the HW so badly, a 6800GT will play all the current games at normal resolutions 11x8 thru 12x16 with all details maxed and even some AA/AF. And i'd say you an get one - pretty soon - for ~$200 . . . that should hold you at least another year till you can get a 7800GTX for $250 or so [or add a 2nd 6800gt for sli "economy"].

OTOH, if you want ALL the details at extrordinary resolutions plus insane amounts of transparant AA and AF and HDR and the 'kitchen sink', you're gonna need some serious $$$.

Me, i'm upgrading this Fall to a 6800U for the 'must have' next gen PC games and a NextGen console . . . in 3 years, i'll reevaluate PC gaming.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Heh. I game on a P3 533 with a 32 MB Matrox G400 card. Plays the greatest online FPS of all time, Unreal Tournament '99, just fine. So, in part it depends on what exactly you want to play.

 

[JBT]

Your prices are totaly screwed up man.
You can get good mobo's for WAY cheaper than that AND you listed a 7800GTX the friggen cream of the crop vs a modded 9500 np? Thats hardly fair...

Why wouldn't you say a 6800NU pipemodded??? Its basically the same thing pipemod vs memory controller...
Also if you looking for a budget system look at socket 754. They still can OC quite fast and are cheap as dirt.

 

[imported_Pressure]

Build me a computer that will play Alan Wake on all full. I demand it.

 

[imported_X]

Cheap gaming is still alive, but consoles are starting to dominate that arena.

I do think high end gaming is a dying breed. I never would have considered paying $1200 just for a cpu and gpu in the past, but that is what you need for high end gaming today (ignoring the top end like FX57). It will be interesting to see if consumers pull back from the bleeding edge, and what effect, if any, that will have on subsequent releases and prices.

 

[JBT]

Originally posted by: X
Cheap gaming is still alive, but consoles are starting to dominate that arena.

I do think high end gaming is a dying breed. I never would have considered paying $1200 just for a cpu and gpu in the past, but that is what you need for high end gaming today (ignoring the top end like FX57). It will be interesting to see if consumers pull back from the bleeding edge, and what effect, if any, that will have on subsequent releases and prices.

Ever heard of OCing a 3000 Venice to just about those speeds and a 6800GT can be had for $300 and under now too and they almost always reach Ultra or past speeds. Thats like under 500 bucks certianly not 1200!!

 

[imported_Pressure]

I don't think it's going to change because the average consumer, like me, isn't paying that much for a computer. I've got better stuff to be spending my money on. However, there are enough people out there who do and will spend that much money on their computer. I've seen kids whos parents buy them parts everytime something better comes out. They want to have the biggest e-penis in the history of ever.

Kid: "Mom! My 6800 Ultra SLI setup isn't cutting it anymore. It just isn't powerful enough. I need two 7800 GTX cards so I can SLI that. I also need a FX-57 because this FX-55 is slow."

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: zendari
The release of the new $600 MSRP 7800 GTX's got me thinking.

The last rig I bought was around late 2002, almost 3 years ago. Back then, creating a topnotch PC gaming rig mainly consisted of the following:

$200 9500 non pro & softmod
$80 athlon XP cpu
$80 motherboard
$120 for 512 mb of ram

total that up for $480

Now, 2 and a half years later, an athlon 64 is pretty much required IMO to get good performance out of your games. so now we are looking at

$600 7800 GTX (possibly $500 for a regular GT or lower)
$150 athlon 64 3000+
$130 for a good skt 939 mobo, maybe $100 for a cheaper one
$80 for 1 gig of valueram

this totals to $960. double what I paid in 2002.

Obviously there are many other factors involved, and perhaps it isn't a fair comparison. But prices for these GPUs IMO are getting out of hand.

Right, not a fair comparison. $480 is a reasonable cost still today for comparable parts, except for the cpus. Those are certainly more expensive than they used to be. $120 is the cheapest available (skt754 newcastle), disregarding the semprons.

I do agree that the highest end stuff is overpriced but that's hardly a new thing.

 

[imported_DaveA]

considering games are getting more complex and more complex games means more powerfull video card and more powerfull video cards means more money pouring into research and development means more expensive to build a graphics card means more expensive MSRP.

not to mention consumer demand for MORE MORE MORE!

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: X
Cheap gaming is still alive, but consoles are starting to dominate that arena.

I do think high end gaming is a dying breed. I never would have considered paying $1200 just for a cpu and gpu in the past, but that is what you need for high end gaming today (ignoring the top end like FX57). It will be interesting to see if consumers pull back from the bleeding edge, and what effect, if any, that will have on subsequent releases and prices.

that's just it, it's high end, meaning very very few people actually spend money on these parts. I bet nvidia/amd/ati all make more money on their lower end stuff, by far.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: JBT
Your prices are totaly screwed up man.
You can get good mobo's for WAY cheaper than that AND you listed a 7800GTX the friggen cream of the crop vs a modded 9500 np? Thats hardly fair...

Why wouldn't you say a 6800NU pipemodded??? Its basically the same thing pipemod vs memory controller...
Also if you looking for a budget system look at socket 754. They still can OC quite fast and are cheap as dirt.

How much cheaper can you get a good skt 939 mobo? A modded 9500 np turned into a 9700 np IIRC; at which point it was essentially the best card out there.

Even a 3000 venice is $150; not cheap at all compared to half price $80 athlon XP cpus.

I do agree that the highest end stuff is overpriced but that's hardly a new thing.

The highest end stuff has always been expensive yes. But before there was the next slightly lower level of parts that was considerably cheaper than it is today.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: zendari
The highest end stuff has always been expensive yes. But before there was the next slightly lower level of parts that was considerably cheaper than it is today.

7800gtx - $600 vs 6800gt - $300. I'd call that considerable.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: zendari
The highest end stuff has always been expensive yes. But before there was the next slightly lower level of parts that was considerably cheaper than it is today.

7800gtx - $600 vs 6800gt - $300. I'd call that considerable.

atleast compare the same level of product...

6800 ultra msrp: 499
7800 ultra msrp 599

not bad considering its twice as fast in some scenarios.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: DaveA

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: zendari
The highest end stuff has always been expensive yes. But before there was the next slightly lower level of parts that was considerably cheaper than it is today.

7800gtx - $600 vs 6800gt - $300. I'd call that considerable.

atleast compare the same level of product...

6800 ultra msrp: 499
7800 ultra msrp 599

not bad considering its twice as fast in some scenarios.

How are they not the same level? NVIDIA is gonna release an ultra arent they? So other than the "X" my comparison is accurate. Does the X really mean that much?

 

[imported_shaw]

You're forgetting a few things also.

#1 Inflation
#2 Making those stronger GPUs with more/faster memory isn't going to make them cheaper
#3 10 years ago, a top of the line PC easilly broke $2K-$3K ($1,000 14inch CRTs, lol), now you could make something top of the line for $1-$1.5 I say.

I have an old Dell advertisement for home PCs at $2000.

I got one of the first Compaq P1-100MHz ever releaed on the market, with 16MB PC100 SD-RAM and 1GB HDD. It was $3,000 if I recall. Then the damn P1-133MHz came out a month later.. damned Intel.

Gaming is cheap as hell now, you're crazy.