Is DRM Destroying Archival Games?

[RyanPaulShaffer]

So glad that I abandoned the PC gaming scene years ago except for WOW. At least Blizzard is honest about how you don't actually own anything when you give them money for WOW. No shifty DRM or dubious EULAs (there is a EULA but it states the obvious); it's an online MMO that you pay to access, but you don't actually own anything.

I can at least respect that, because Blizzard is upfront with what you're paying for. All of these companies "selling you a single-player game" that require the malware SecuROM, online activation, online validation on startup, etc., is downright despicable. Just another reason why I will never buy a non-MMO game for the PC ever again (except maybe SC2 and D3).

As long as consumers continue to support such blatant anti-consumer activities, PC gaming will continue to die a slow death.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
So glad that I abandoned the PC gaming scene years ago except for WOW. At least Blizzard is honest about how you don't actually own anything when you give them money for WOW. No shifty DRM or dubious EULAs (there is a EULA but it states the obvious); it's an online MMO that you pay to access, but you don't actually own anything.

I can at least respect that, because Blizzard is upfront with what you're paying for. All of these companies "selling you a single-player game" that require the malware SecuROM, online activation, online validation on startup, etc., is downright despicable. Just another reason why I will never buy a non-MMO game for the PC ever again (except maybe SC2 and D3).

As long as consumers continue to support such blatant anti-consumer activities, PC gaming will continue to die a slow death.

Wow, you don't think that WoW has DRM? What, pray tell, is that "login" you put in every single time you play? How about that CD-Key that you use to install the game with (assuming you didn't get it via digital distribution, which is inherently its own form of DRM)? How about the fact that they refuse to allow you to exercise your right of first-sale - even on the physical media if that's the method you acquired it with? Or maybe the fact that the launcher installs invasive software that scans your entire machine and provides any requested data to Blizzard at their discretion (If that's not Malware, I don't know what is!).

Honestly, why does Blizzard care if I sell my copy of WoW? If I do, that likely means that subscriber revenue for my copy will continue despite me not playing anymore. It's not like they're magically making double the money by forcing me to retain my copy and inactive subscription. Hell, they'd probably end up making more off me since I would have actually paid for the original title, with the new owner likely to have paid far less or possibly nothing initially these days to start a new account.

Just because a title doesn't have something that can be formally and obviously called DRM doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Besides, every single software EULA out there, regardless of the title, all basically state in some language or other that you don't "own" the work, but are rather licensed to use it at the right's holder's discretion. Blizzard is hardly unique with their EULA, they simply use specific language to enable further control over what people do and/or don't do in their title.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
So glad that I abandoned the PC gaming scene years ago except for WOW. At least Blizzard is honest about how you don't actually own anything when you give them money for WOW. No shifty DRM or dubious EULAs (there is a EULA but it states the obvious); it's an online MMO that you pay to access, but you don't actually own anything.

I can at least respect that, because Blizzard is upfront with what you're paying for. All of these companies "selling you a single-player game" that require the malware SecuROM, online activation, online validation on startup, etc., is downright despicable. Just another reason why I will never buy a non-MMO game for the PC ever again (except maybe SC2 and D3).

As long as consumers continue to support such blatant anti-consumer activities, PC gaming will continue to die a slow death.

Wow, you don't think that WoW has DRM? What, pray tell, is that "login" you put in every single time you play? How about that CD-Key that you use to install the game with (assuming you didn't get it via digital distribution, which is inherently its own form of DRM)? How about the fact that they refuse to allow you to exercise your right of first-sale - even on the physical media if that's the method you acquired it with? Or maybe the fact that the launcher installs invasive software that scans your entire machine and provides any requested data to Blizzard at their discretion (If that's not Malware, I don't know what is!).

Honestly, why does Blizzard care if I sell my copy of WoW? If I do, that likely means that subscriber revenue for my copy will continue despite me not playing anymore. It's not like they're magically making double the money by forcing me to retain my copy and inactive subscription. Hell, they'd probably end up making more off me since I would have actually paid for the original title, with the new owner likely to have paid far less or possibly nothing initially these days to start a new account.

Just because a title doesn't have something that can be formally and obviously called DRM doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Besides, every single software EULA out there, regardless of the title, all basically state in some language or other that you don't "own" the work, but are rather licensed to use it at the right's holder's discretion. Blizzard is hardly unique with their EULA, they simply use specific language to enable further control over what people do and/or don't do in their title.

Major reading comprehension fail.

Go back and read the parts I bolded in my original post. Actually, perhaps you should take a deep breath, take a nice walk to calm down, then re-read my original post.

I'll even provide you with some keywords: shifty, dubious, honest, upfront

 

[realmike15]

I don't buy any games with heavy DRM. I barely buy any PC games because of the outrageous price tag. Compared to movies game production costs 1/5 what major movies do, but some how a movie on DVD is $20 while a game on DVD is $60. No screw the game companies, when they stop ripping people off i'll buy games again. Until then I only pay if I want to be able to play the game online, or if it's really good enough that I want to own a copy.

Until then I have 0 sympathy for any of the major players.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Major reading comprehension fail.

Go back and read the parts I bolded in my original post. Actually, perhaps you should take a deep breath, take a nice walk to calm down, then re-read my original post.

I'll even provide you with some keywords: shifty, dubious, honest, upfront

I read it spot on the first time. You claim there's no DRM, malware or sketchy EULAs. I countered with the fact that there is DRM and malware (both shifty AND especially dubious), and the EULA prohibits my right of first-sale, among other things, which makes it sketchy. I also took the time to illustrate my points as to why.

Perhaps you should take some time, maybe a walk as you suggest, and then re-read what I posted along with this post. You might then begin to understand what I've described.

 

[MStele]

[/quote]

I read it spot on the first time. You claim there's no DRM, malware or sketchy EULAs. I countered with the fact that there is DRM and malware (both shifty AND especially dubious), and the EULA prohibits my right of first-sale, among other things, which makes it sketchy. I also took the time to illustrate my points as to why.

Perhaps you should take some time, maybe a walk as you suggest, and then re-read what I posted along with this post. You might then begin to understand what I've described.[/Q]

Actually he said "At least Blizzard is honest about how you don't actually own anything when you give them money for WOW. No shifty DRM or dubious EULAs (there is a EULA but it states the obvious); it's an online MMO that you pay to access, but you don't actually own anything."

If you read the whole thing, you would notice that the context was not that Blizzard didn't have DRM, but that they didn't apply it in ways to hide it. No "shifty DRM" (Thats the quote). I don't know where you get "no DRM" from " no shifty DRM". Blizzard has DRM, but its no starforce or securom, and the remaining context is that at least with Blizzard you know what your getting. With many single player games you really don't know how bad the DRM is because they don't tell you half of what you need to know. On the box they should outline exactly what brand and type of DRM is included along with what information is gathered. Currently all they say is that copy prevention software is included.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: MStele
you would notice that the context was not that Blizzard didn't have DRM, but that they didn't apply it in ways to hide it. "No shifty DRM" (Thats the quote).

I fixed the position of the quote for you. With the correct context, you might actually understand what's being said.

If RyanPaulShaffer's context is something different, well then I apologize, I've never been very good at reading minds. Regardless, my post and reply were 100% accurate anyway.

 

[MStele]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: MStele
you would notice that the context was not that Blizzard didn't have DRM, but that they didn't apply it in ways to hide it. "No shifty DRM" (Thats the quote).

I fixed the position of the quote for you. With the correct context, you might actually understand what's being said.

If RyanPaulShaffer's context is something different, well then I apologize, I've never been very good at reading minds. Regardless, my post and reply were 100% accurate anyway.

I wrote "No "shifty DRM"" on purpose. You made the claim that he said there was no drm, but in fact he said that there was no shifty drm, with shifty being an adjective to describe the type of drm, and not all drm. "It has no drm." "It has no shifty drm." Do you see the difference? They actually say different things. Not all drm is shifty. Blizzard's is blatant. I can break out the grammer book if you like. I don't mind battling over ideas but if we are going to redefine how english is written then maybe we should go into politics instead.

 

[Zensal]

Originally posted by: realmike15
I don't buy any games with heavy DRM. I barely buy any PC games because of the outrageous price tag. Compared to movies game production costs 1/5 what major movies do, but some how a movie on DVD is $20 while a game on DVD is $60. No screw the game companies, when they stop ripping people off i'll buy games again. Until then I only pay if I want to be able to play the game online, or if it's really good enough that I want to own a copy.

Until then I have 0 sympathy for any of the major players.

Really?

Spider-Man 2 Worldwide Theatrical Gross $783,705,001

Halo 3 Total Sales: 10,260,000 x $60 = $615,600,000

They are not even in the same league of sales. The SM2 numbers are only for Theaters. Doesn't even count DVD sales. And a large portion of people did not pay $60 for Halo 3.

Less volume = Higher price.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: MStele

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: MStele
you would notice that the context was not that Blizzard didn't have DRM, but that they didn't apply it in ways to hide it. "No shifty DRM" (Thats the quote).

I fixed the position of the quote for you. With the correct context, you might actually understand what's being said.

If RyanPaulShaffer's context is something different, well then I apologize, I've never been very good at reading minds. Regardless, my post and reply were 100% accurate anyway.

I wrote "No "shifty DRM"" on purpose. You made the claim that he said there was no drm, but in fact he said that there was no shifty drm, with shifty being an adjective to describe the type of drm, and not all drm. "It has no drm." "It has no shifty drm." Do you see the difference? They actually say different things. Not all drm is shifty. Blizzard's is blatant. I can break out the grammer book if you like. I don't mind battling over ideas but if we are going to redefine how english is written then maybe we should go into politics instead.

I know what you wrote, I know what he wrote and I know what I wrote. You obviously didn't understand what I was referring to, plain and simple. I may or may not have correctly interpreted what RPS said, that's not for you to debate (and I graciously admitted). I'm not trying to redefine the English language - I have a firm grasp on what an adjective is and how they are used in sentences, thank you. Arguing over something as idiotic as the position of a quote or misquote in your case is simply a waste of time. I'm happy to academically debate a grammatical issue particularly with regards to context and make you look like the utter idiot you are making yourself out to be, but as of this moment, I've made my argument and you my friend have absolutely no basis to try to berate me on any grounds.

Besides, it has absolutely no bearing as to the outcome of this thread or the argument at hand. Being that as it is, this particular conversation has no bearing on the original topic, and with that I'm outta here.

 

[I4AT]

Originally posted by: Zensal

Originally posted by: realmike15
I don't buy any games with heavy DRM. I barely buy any PC games because of the outrageous price tag. Compared to movies game production costs 1/5 what major movies do, but some how a movie on DVD is $20 while a game on DVD is $60. No screw the game companies, when they stop ripping people off i'll buy games again. Until then I only pay if I want to be able to play the game online, or if it's really good enough that I want to own a copy.

Until then I have 0 sympathy for any of the major players.

Really?

Spider-Man 2 Worldwide Theatrical Gross $783,705,001

Halo 3 Total Sales: 10,260,000 x $60 = $615,600,000

They are not even in the same league of sales. The SM2 numbers are only for Theaters. Doesn't even count DVD sales. And a large portion of people did not pay $60 for Halo 3.

Less volume = Higher price.

lol I don't really have any opinions to state on the topic at hand, but I can't believe you guys are trying to boil down this comparison to such a simple level. Those numbers have nothing to do with net profit for one, after factoring in the salaries of all hands involved and distribution/marketing costs etc. And you're also not accounting for the fact that just about anyone can make it to a theater with only transportation and ticket fees, and no further entry costs, while in order to play Halo 3 you need the $300 or so console and the TV etc. to enjoy it. None of us have any of the data necessary to really know whether Spider Man 2 or Halo 3 was more profitable, in terms of sheer dollars or percentage.