Is elective abortion a woman taking or avoiding responsibility?

[jackstar7]

I you are a sick disgusting human being. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but you're not which makes it all the worse.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...or-liberal-extreme-views-and-feeling-superior

 

[bshole]

I you are a sick disgusting human being. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but you're not which makes it all the worse.

Oh really.

Perhaps if he supported the abortion of babies in the specified Biblical manner, he wouldn't be so sick?

Apparently the Biblical way to have an abortion is to go to a priest who will do some weird rituals after which God kills your baby for you.

11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

LOL at Christians. Don't even know their own fucking religion.

 

[Blackjack200]

"Removing embryos"? How about dousing the baby with saline solution.


(NSFW)
http://clinicquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/c053sm.jpg

What do you think of this picture? Should this be allowed to occur?

Hey brother, how about some NSFW tags? Or should we post in-line pictures of women bleeding to death in an ally?

Dick.

 

[MrPickins]

No, he sounds like a fucking idiot. Paranoid would be him thinking that's what women are planning when they are with him.

That's actually how I read it.

If it was purely for the child's welfare, a lot more women would abort unwanted pregnancies so that they could children when they really wanted and could afford them. When they had a stable partner around to assist in raising the child.

Maybe I wasn't clear. The impetus for the court awarding child support is the child's welfare.

The standard should be that if the man does not want the child, he should not be required to pay child support. She could always abort the baby if he does not want it. If he doesn't want it, and she does not abort, she is bringing a child into this world knowing that he will only have one devoted parent. The other parent will resent him.

The standard should be "don't stick your dick in things that produce babies unless you're ready to handle the responsibility (or at least, wrap your rascal)."

 

[CitizenKain]

You are a sick disgusting human being. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but you're not which makes it all the worse.

Nah, I'm good. Also, that is great that you picked a photo from a anti-choice site, I'm sure its really believable. A site the supports women being forced to bring a rapist's child to birth, they sound like a nice bunch of people.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I care about the truth, which is why I am more concerned with the facts regarding development of the fetus than the label assigned.

The point is that it is nothing but dishonest propaganda to refer to a fetus as an "unborn child." Are you an undead corpse? No, you are a person. These terms have clearly defined boundaries and those boundaries have legal ramifications. Anyone interested in forming consistent and effective public policy should have a deep concern for the clarity of the language used to communicate about the topic. Rational, clear language is not a friend to the women-hating anti-choice bootlickers, however, hence his predilection to the propaganda.

Your discussion regarding the invasiveness of the procedure, viability, and squatter's rights also suggest you are more concerned with the underlying facts, so it is somewhat surprising you are so insistent on selection of the label, which is only useful for a fallacious argument based on appeal to emotion.

I guess you could say I'm multi-tasking.

 

[buckshot24]

Nah, I'm good. Also, that is great that you picked a photo from a anti-choice site, I'm sure its really believable. A site the supports women being forced to bring a rapist's child to birth, they sound like a nice bunch of people.

I really have no interest in your opinions, you've proven yourself to be a morally bankrupt human being.

 

[CitizenKain]

I really have no interest in your opinions, you've proven yourself to be a morally bankrupt human being.

Considering that is coming from someone who thinks raped women are blessed to carry the child of a rapist, I'll consider it an honor.

 

[buckshot24]

Considering that is coming from someone who thinks raped women are blessed to carry the child of a rapist, I'll consider it an honor.

I don't think they are "blessed". Add lying to your list of achievements?

 

[Blackjack200]

Nah, I'm good. Also, that is great that you picked a photo from a anti-choice site, I'm sure its really believable. A site the supports women being forced to bring a rapist's child to birth, they sound like a nice bunch of people.

Yup. Anti-choice nut jobs produced the misleading videos that led directly to the murder of three people at a PP facility. Nothing they claim can be relied on.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You are a sick disgusting human being. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but you're not which makes it all the worse.

Call me crazy, but it's my opinion that public policy should be shaped by reason and logic, not dictated by emotion.

Your contribution to this thread can be distilled to: "Look! Isn't that scary looking?? We should make the scary thing illegal!"

Perhaps you should just shut up and let the grown-ups talk.

 

[Paratus]

Considering that is coming from someone who thinks raped women are blessed to carry the child of a rapist, I'll consider it an honor.

Like that 9 year old girl in South America who was raped by her step father and the Catholic Church wanted to force her to risk her life carrying twins instead of getting an abortion. They originally excommunicated the doctors who performed the operation but later back tracked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Brazilian_girl_abortion_case

Yup. Anti-choice nut jobs produced the misleading videos that led directly to the murder of three people at a PP facility. Nothing they claim can be relied on.

Don't forget these are also the folks who tried to keep a dead Texas womans body alive to use as an incubator for her slowly dieing fetus against her and her husbands wishes. Took two months before a court over ruled the hospitals interpretation of state law.

Hey last I heard they billed the husband for the extra hospital stay so no tax payers were harmed.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/26/health/texas-pregnant-brain-dead-woman/

Pro-lifers talk a lot about extreme hypotheticals of women using abortions as birth control but here's two real cases where they tried to use government intervention to turn a child and a dead women into forced incubators.

 

[buckshot24]

Yup. Anti-choice nut jobs produced the misleading videos that led directly to the murder of three people at a PP facility. Nothing they claim can be relied on.

I'm sure you can substantiate this?

 

[brycejones]

I'm sure you can substantiate this?

You mean like you substantiate your posts?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Simple question. Is a woman who gets an abortion being responsible and accountable, or selfish and irresponsible? For sake of argument consider it as an unintended but healthy pregnancy and exclude abortions for "live of mother," rape, and other typical exception cases.

The truth is that it is none of your business!!

 

[buckshot24]

The truth is that it is none of your business!!

Is it our business if the mother molests her children? How about drowning them in a tub?

 

[Grooveriding]

In most cases it is a mixture of both. Barring sexual assault and some other circumstances, most people who become pregnant did it knowing the potential was there and they were not using contraception. Statistically the chance of conceiving when you're on birth control or using a condom is very low, but it is still there. The chance if you use a condom and birth control together is even lower still.

So, generally, someone who has gotten pregnant was not using contraception and knowingly consenting to that risk. Irresponsible if you are not planning to get pregnant and have a child. This is also ignoring the potential for STDs if you are having casual sex as well. Of course, men know when we put our peepee in the hole we can make baby come as well, so the irresponsibility is shared. But, if you are so certain that you don't want a child because you're pregnant, that abortion is your choice, it's a responsible choice rather than going forward with it when you're not psychologically prepared for it. Raising a child and doing it well is not a passive process, you have to be invested in it.

So it's both. I'm sure most are conscious of the fact they screwed up when they make the choice to have one. I believe women who find themselves in this position are not thinking of this like getting the oil in their car changed. It's not going to be a case of just keep banging away without being careful afterwards, most people will learn from their mistake.

Also, the sooner religious mysticism is relegated to the annals of human history the better. Too many issues like this are clouded with a pile of horseshit from people who can't separate fairly tales written thousands of years ago from reality. Irrational beliefs tend to lead to irrational actions, whether it is the extreme like attacking clinics, the less extreme of harassing and picketing women using clinics or the more moderate of just thinking badly of others for their choices and that you know better. All irrational nonsense. It's too bad the men who wrote those stories back then didn't base their rituals around a vow of silence and seclusion. So we wouldn't still find ourselves subjected to hearing religious lunacy from the bronze age in these modern times.

 

[DrDoug]

Is it our business if the mother molests her children? How about drowning them in a tub?

How about sticking to the topic at hand instead of asking irrelevant questions? The two scenarios you posit are illegal and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Abortion is legal, remember?

 

[buckshot24]

How about sticking to the topic at hand instead of asking irrelevant questions? The two scenarios you posit are illegal and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Abortion is legal, remember?

Yeah abortion is legal and so was slavery, that doesn't make it right. Both of those scenarios harm children and is our business and should be illegal. Snuffing out unborn babies seems a bit harmful to the babies to me. How is this not our business? Because a few judges said it was a "right"?

 

[DrDoug]

Yeah abortion is legal and so was slavery, that doesn't make it right. Both of those scenarios harm children and is our business and should be illegal. Snuffing out unborn babies seems a bit harmful to the babies to me. How is this not our business? Because a few judges said it was a "right"?

First you drag in child molesting and drowning children, and now you invoke slavery? Are Hitler and the showers next? You have nothing but your lame POV. Slavery was legal at one time and abortion was illegal, and now slavery is illegal and abortion is legal.

Two wrongs that were righted.

 

[buckshot24]

First you drag in child molesting and drowning children, and now you invoke slavery? Are Hitler and the showers next? You have nothing but your lame POV. Slavery was legal at one time and abortion was illegal, and now slavery is illegal and abortion is legal.

Two wrongs that were righted.

The obvious point you're missing is that it being legal doesn't mean its ok. What if people took your view and said, "well, slavery is legal so I guess we must accept it"? I don't think abortion is "ok", sorry if that offends you.

And based on what do you think abortion being legal is "right"? Your opinion?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Yeah abortion is legal and so was slavery, that doesn't make it right.

It doesn't matter one whit what you think is right or wrong. The fact is that we live in a society that has established basic fundamental rights for persons. In fact, the very reasons you cannot force a person to serve involuntarily on your plantation are the same reasons you cannot force a woman to serve involuntarily as fetal an incubator. It is in fact a tribute to the consistencies of our laws that slavery is illegal and abortion is legal.

Both of those scenarios harm children and is our business and should be illegal.

Abortion does not harm children.

Snuffing out unborn babies seems a bit harmful to the babies to me.

Abortion does not harm babies.

How is this not our business?

Because you're not the one who's body is being unwillingly occupied.

Because a few judges said it was a "right"?

Among a myriad of other reasons.

 

[DrDoug]

The obvious point you're missing is that it being legal doesn't mean its ok. What if people took your view and said, "well, slavery is legal so I guess we must accept it"? I don't think abortion is "ok", sorry if that offends you.

And based on what do you think abortion being legal is "right"? Your opinion?

Go ahead and rail against it all you want, I don't give a shit if you want to be a caveman about this and you don't give a shit if what you believe offends anyone. But right now the law is what it is and the procedure is legal. If you think you can successfully argue the fight against slavery is the same as the fight against abortion then you can just stick that lame-assed thought right back from where you pulled it. Beliefs like that can lead to innocent people being maimed and murdered, as we have recently been reminded once again. Was this killer your John Brown? Because if you pause and think about it, you would realize that is what you are saying in equating the two causes. Your arguments so far seem to be trying to prove apples and olives (illegal and legal actions) look and taste the same and they do not. Not even close. Regarding my view of it being a right? No matter how I look at it, it's her body and men fuck with it at their own risk.

Someone in my family had to have an elective abortion and they are damned glad the option was available, fast and safe. She's married with one kid and uses birth control. She was having a problem with anemia that was not responding to conventional treatment and what she ended up being prescribed ended up causing her birth control pills to be less effective. Not only that but the mega doses of iron could lead to severe birth defects. This was unknown to her because both her doc and pharmacist forgot to mention these little details. Her husband told her that he would back her decision but that it was hers to make. She opted to end the pregnancy and that was that. They now have a second kid who came along two years later, a new nephew for me, as healthy as can be. People like you seek to remove her right, just because you imagine that you are standing on some kind of higher moral ground.

I really can't waste any more time with you other than to ridicule your positions when they make me laugh hard enough. I learned long ago that fools can't be reasoned with because they realize that if they admit they were foolish then it would make them look foolish, as if that matters.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Simple question. Is a woman who gets an abortion being responsible and accountable, or selfish and irresponsible? For sake of argument consider it as an unintended but healthy pregnancy and exclude abortions for "live of mother," rape, and other typical exception cases.

I voted "responsible and accountable". It's also selfish too, but in a good way. In contrast, sacrificing your own rational selfish interests to please other people who say should sacrifice 18+ years of your life and your happiness or that you should cower before a make believe god would be selfless.

I'm not sure how condemning yourself to bear a huge burden for 18 years is in any way responsible. Nor is giving birth and dropping an unwanted infant off at an orphanage responsible.

Responsibility implies the question, "responsible to whom?" The only person a woman owes responsibility to in these situations is herself, and if she's unable to care for the child on her own, then society at large. As for the fetus whose brain isn't even developed yet, there isn't a conscious self-aware personality contained inside of it for anyone to be responsible to.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

i think a forum full of mostly men discussing women's reproductive choices is hilarious.

Any more hilarious than a forum full of women discussing whether men who do not want to be fathers and who are willing to pay a woman to have an abortion should be responsible for child support?

How about a forum full of women discussing whether society in general should foot the bill for raising a child born into poverty? (That tax money thing.)