is enviornmentalism the new patriotism?

[Jumpem]

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
It's more like the new communism. Fucking over free industry to make themselves feel good.

.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
The thing that gets me the most is when people criticize others for not "believing" in global warming. Sounds a bit theocratic, dontcha think?

Sounds like the typical left wing elitism that has plagued the democratic party of the last 50 years.


They really sound progressive, don't they?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
It's more like the new communism. Fucking over free industry to make themselves feel good.

Industry is not "free" to pollute the property of others.

Which is why capitalists believe in something called "private property" which means that people who own property do not let it become ruined by the irresponsibility of others.

China, a former communist country, does not hold that attitude, and look how they are.

 

[BrownTown]

Yeah, I agree thats its taken way overboard. MY big problem personally is how little most "enviromentalists" really know about their causes. They act like if you just work hard enough you can change the laws of physics and get energy out of thin air. OR the other thing I hate is all their conspiracy theories like some random guy developed all this technology in his garage 30 years ago and big buisness is just hidding it so they can screw us all.

The fact is there is no "right" answer here, every technology has pros and cons. The enviromental cost is just one of a dozen different things that must be considered. It can deffintely be a deal breaker, but acting like its the only thing out there is silly. What good is a technology that doesn't hurt the enviroment if it costs 10 times as much? OR if its completely unreliable? or if it means we are completely reliant on other countires?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
The thing that gets me the most is when people criticize others for not "believing" in global warming. Sounds a bit theocratic, dontcha think?

Sounds like the typical left wing elitism that has plagued the democratic party of the last 50 years.


They really sound progressive, don't they?

I'll keep that in mind the next time the Republicans push their usual "faith-based" moral agenda. :roll:

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
The thing that gets me the most is when people criticize others for not "believing" in global warming. Sounds a bit theocratic, dontcha think?

Sounds like the typical left wing elitism that has plagued the democratic party of the last 50 years.


They really sound progressive, don't they?

I'll keep that in mind the next time the Republicans push their usual "faith-based" moral agenda. :roll:

That's ironic, I thought it was Obama's personal minister bring faith into damning America.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Topic Title: is enviornmentalism the new patriotism?

Green is the new "Gold".

Along with "Black Gold" (Oil)

Enjoy paying more for rabbit food

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
It's more like the new communism. Fucking over free industry to make themselves feel good.

Industry is not "free" to pollute the property of others.

Which is why capitalists believe in something called "private property" which means that people who own property do not let it become ruined by the irresponsibility of others.

China, a former communist country, does not hold that attitude, and look how they are.

I think you were trying to make some sort of point, but it seems to have failed miserably considering how well China is doing.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
It's more like the new communism. Fucking over free industry to make themselves feel good.

Industry is not "free" to pollute the property of others.

It has been so far, and it's worked out well.

No and no.

Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property.
But if you were looking for "communism," this mentality of yours would be it, which is why communist countries have always had the worst environmental records of all.

unfortunately, usually the pollution is either of a de minimis value or the causal connection is low, so things like dirty air due to joe blow's F-150 isn't something i can sue for. and god forbid we add to the gas tax in order to clean it up.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
The thing that gets me the most is when people criticize others for not "believing" in global warming. Sounds a bit theocratic, dontcha think?

Sounds like the typical left wing elitism that has plagued the democratic party of the last 50 years.


They really sound progressive, don't they?

I'll keep that in mind the next time the Republicans push their usual "faith-based" moral agenda. :roll:

That's ironic, I thought it was Obama's personal minister bring faith into damning America.

Obama's "personal minister" presides over the largest black congregation of one of the largest mainstream Protestant sects in the US. I'm sure you avoid mentioning that and try to make it look like some small church/"personal" thing so that all the million-plus Church of Christ-ers in the US don't realize what it is you're really trying to say about their faith, eh?

But thanks for trolling that you get all your political information from talk radio.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
It's more like the new communism. Fucking over free industry to make themselves feel good.

Industry is not "free" to pollute the property of others.

It has been so far, and it's worked out well.

No and no.

Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property.
But if you were looking for "communism," this mentality of yours would be it, which is why communist countries have always had the worst environmental records of all.

unfortunately, usually the pollution is either of a de minimis value or the causal connection is low, so things like dirty air due to joe blow's F-150 isn't something i can sue for. and god forbid we add to the gas tax in order to clean it up.

True, so we apply regulatory standards like emissions and smog testing, then have the vehicle owner pay for it (in the cost of the vehicle and the cost of the testing).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Vic

True, so we apply regulatory standards like emissions and smog testing, then have the vehicle owner pay for it (in the cost of the vehicle and the cost of the testing).

emissions and smog testing only gets the really bad offenders (and not even all of them, thank you grandfathering). it's a baseline, but it hardly reflects the true costs to society.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

 

[seemingly random]

Just adding a little gasoline to the fire

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

Ah, Amused, I see you haven't changed. You still think Rush Limbaugh is the master of debate.

The hypocrisy is yours. What I clearly said is that it doesn't matter if it's a group or an individual, neither have the right to damage (or pollute, if you will) the property of others without consent.

"Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property."

What you argued for is that a group should be allowed to do what an individual cannot, just so long as that group names themselves "industry."

Congratulations, you collectivist.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

Ah, Amused, I see you haven't changed. You still think Rush Limbaugh is the master of debate.

The hypocrisy is yours. What I clearly said is that it doesn't matter if it's a group or an individual, neither have the right to damage (or pollute, if you will) the property of others without consent.

"Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property."

What you argued for is that a group should be allowed to do what an individual cannot, just so long as that group names themselves "industry."

Congratulations, you collectivist.

I argued no such thing. Stop arguing against this straw man and actually address my first comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Vic
True, so we apply regulatory standards like emissions and smog testing, then have the vehicle owner pay for it (in the cost of the vehicle and the cost of the testing).

emissions and smog testing only gets the really bad offenders (and not even all of them, thank you grandfathering). it's a baseline, but it hardly reflects the true costs to society.

Nothing ever reflects the "true costs" (or true benefits) to society. That seems like an unreasonable expectation.

In the meantime, I think we can all agree that driving a motorized vehicle is a privilege, not a right, and so reasonable baselines for safety and emissions are an acceptable compromise.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

Ah, Amused, I see you haven't changed. You still think Rush Limbaugh is the master of debate.

The hypocrisy is yours. What I clearly said is that it doesn't matter if it's a group or an individual, neither have the right to damage (or pollute, if you will) the property of others without consent.

"Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property."

What you argued for is that a group should be allowed to do what an individual cannot, just so long as that group names themselves "industry."

Congratulations, you collectivist.

I argued no such thing. Stop arguing against this straw man and actually address my first comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

That was your straw man, genius.

RTFT if you expect to have a discussion with me.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

Ah, Amused, I see you haven't changed. You still think Rush Limbaugh is the master of debate.

The hypocrisy is yours. What I clearly said is that it doesn't matter if it's a group or an individual, neither have the right to damage (or pollute, if you will) the property of others without consent.

"Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property."

What you argued for is that a group should be allowed to do what an individual cannot, just so long as that group names themselves "industry."

Congratulations, you collectivist.

I argued no such thing. Stop arguing against this straw man and actually address my first comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

That was your straw man, genius.

RTFT if you expect to have a discussion with me.

I made a comment and you have insulted me, beat the poor straw man to death and now you still refuse to address my comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused
I made a comment and you have insulted me, beat the poor straw man to death and now you still refuse to address my comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

Duh. It's not relevant, Rush Limbaugh. :roll:

You interjected yourself into a discussion that NanoStuff and I were having with your irrelevant let's-change-the-subject comment, and then accuse me of using straw men. How original!

My argument was that "industry" has no more rights to pollute the property of others than does an individual. Now... what relevance does my personal individual pollution have to do with that? None, unless you are trying to defend the right of a collective to do what an individual cannot.

edit: cleared out the usual Amused 20 nested quotes.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: NanoStuff
Maybe you have a secret you would like to share. The industry doesn't listen to the rest of us when we tell them to keep their air pollution out of our back yards. Darn air pollution is so rebellious, goes where it pleases.

So can I dump my household garbage over at your house instead of paying the trash collectors?

How about you stop driving your car, grilling in your yard and burning wood. Your air polution is giving me hissy fits.

How about you pay attention to what I'm posting here and quit pretending you have the right to other people's property? Oh wait, that right only works in one direction for you, doesn't it?

You're not making any sense. You forbid groups of people to pollute the air but you have no problem doing it individually.

Congratulations on your hypocrisy and nice try at turning my statement into something it was not.

Ah, Amused, I see you haven't changed. You still think Rush Limbaugh is the master of debate.

The hypocrisy is yours. What I clearly said is that it doesn't matter if it's a group or an individual, neither have the right to damage (or pollute, if you will) the property of others without consent.

"Sh!t on your land all you want for all I care, but naming yourself "industry" does not make you free to dump your garbage on someone else's property."

What you argued for is that a group should be allowed to do what an individual cannot, just so long as that group names themselves "industry."

Congratulations, you collectivist.

I argued no such thing. Stop arguing against this straw man and actually address my first comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

That was your straw man, genius.

RTFT if you expect to have a discussion with me.

I made a comment and you have insulted me, beat the poor straw man to death and now you still refuse to address my comment.

Do you, or do you not create air pollution?

Duh. It's not relevant, Rush Limbaugh. :roll:

You interjected yourself into a discussion that NanoStuff and I were having with your irrelevant let's-change-the-subject comment, and then accuse me of using straw men. How original!

My argument was that "industry" has no more rights to pollute the property of others than does an individual. Now... what relevance does my personal individual pollution have to do with that? None, unless you are trying to defend the right of a collective to do what an individual cannot.

More insults, more dodging, more attempts at demonization by false association (why not just use hitler?) and more denials.

Well, since you will not answer, I will answer for you: You do create air pollution. Now, if you are creating so many tons of pollution a year on an individual basis, why cannot groups of people do it on a grander scale to produce the very products and services that keep us alive and give us the highest life span and highest standard of living in history?

The point is, your own hands are not clean. One cannot be more demanding of others than he is of himself.

 

[0roo0roo]

you live in a straw hut vic?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused
More insults, more dodging, more attempts at demonization by false association (why not just use hitler?) and more denials.

Well, since you will not answer, I will answer for you: You do create air pollution. Now, if you are creating so many tons of pollution a year on an individual basis, why cannot groups of people do it on a grander scale to produce the very products and services that keep us alive and give us the highest life span and highest standard of living in history?

The point is, your own hands are not clean. One cannot be more demanding of others than he is of himself.

Duh... too bad for you that I never argued anything even remotely like what you're pretending... while you OTOH are in fact arguing exactly what I claimed you were, and now have even come clean with it. :roll:

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you live in a straw hut vic?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[Throckmorton]

This thread is ridiculous. Being anti-environment makes no sense and it seems that a lot of people here have a very loose grasp on reality, maybe because it's not made of polygons and 24 bit pixels. If it weren't for environmentalism, there'd be no emission controls on cars, power plants or anything else, no chemical regulations for effluent into rivers and oceans, or manufacturing standards regarding chemicals.

It's not our fault anti-environment and anti-poor things like biofuel have piggybacked on environmentalism. Blame Al Gore and George Bush and the importance of the Iowa caucus.