Is every large building dangerous?

[Grminalac]

I know the fires were pushed out of control by a LOT of super flammable jet fuel, but the horror of seeing the fires rage on the upper floors and noone being able to do anything about it keeps sticking in my head.

Could a tragedy like this occur from a simple fire. I thought to myself that even if a paper fire or cigarette caused fire that got out of control on an upper floor how would the fire dept ever be able to deal with it. That could happen on any large building. Reports stated that it took 45 minutes to evacuate. Thats TOO LONG if you ask me, large buildings seem unsafe.

 

[brxndxn]

I question the original structural integrity of the WTC towers after seeing it fall like that...

I don't think there's any way in hell a 767 crashing into the Sears, John Hancock, or Empire State Buildings would possibly cause them to fall.

 

[pulse8]

In 1945 a bomber crashed into the Empire State Building and it never fell. I don't know what that means in relation to what happened today, but just something to think about.

Skyscrapers all over this country now can be a possible target for terrorism.

 

[Grminalac]

I wasn't so much worried about bombs and other buildings. Its just that never before this had I ever given any thought as to how a person could fight a fire or rescue someone stranded off the 50+ story. The problem is you probably can't!!!

 

[gygheyzeus]

think of how fast the plane was going... and how much fuel it was carrying... it was like overkill.

 

[iamfried]

I don't build skyscrapers but I have noticed that they have sprinkler systems in them. The thing is, throw a plane with enough fuel to fly across the continent into a skyscraper, and it doesn't matter what kind of sprinkler systems you have. From what the structural engineer that was on earlier said, the fire engulfed the entire middle section of the building, started to melt the metal, and then, as floors fell on top of other floors, the density just became to large and the collapse was inevitable.
Also, it is worth noting, that these buildings were designed to withstand a blow from a commercial jet when they were made. Problem = that was 30 years ago. Our planes are now much larger.

 

[vegetation]

Most newer buildings have sprinkler systems. They will control a small fire that gets started. They wont help at all when there's a huge gaseous flames around erupting from an explosion though.

 

[Thanatopsis]

<< I wasn't so much worried about bombs and other buildings. Its just that never before this had I ever given any thought as to how a person could fight a fire or rescue someone stranded off the 50+ story. The problem is you probably can't!!! >>



Modern skyscrapers have fire sprinkler systems that would put out a simple fire such as one started by a cigarette or something. Those fire sprinklers are not designed to deal with thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel though...

 

[Grminalac]

I guess mine, and everyone elses mind is just warped at how easily the buildings just folded in on themselves. Freaks a person out. Wasn't there a hotel in Vegas that had a small fire that caused the death of a lot of people? Can't remember the name.

 

[yakko]

<< I wasn't so much worried about bombs and other buildings. Its just that never before this had I ever given any thought as to how a person could fight a fire or rescue someone stranded off the 50+ story. The problem is you probably can't!!! >>

Go watch the movie The Towering Inferno from the 70s and that is exactly what the movies talks about. The ladders only go up so high and after that you can't use the elevators so you have to drag equipment up 70, 80, 90 or more floors. That also does not help water pressure in the fire hoses.

 

[Miramonti]

I think if a fire burns out of control (without jet fuel!) it could become a risk to collapse but it would be very unlikely because, as mentioned, the sprinkler system and additional response time with a lesser intense fire.

I'm more worried about tall buildings being more vulnerable to hijackings and, even moreso, private plane suicide missions. This is an advertisement for how much damage these 'giant molitov cocktails' can do.

 

[pulse8]

There was 10,000 lbs of fuel on those planes...

 

[Grminalac]

I shudder at the thought that we would have an actual war. Inagine if only a few bombs were dropped in NYC, the damage would be horrendous. Sure the WWII bombings in paris, london and berlin were terrible, but dear lord ony a few bombs in NYC or Tokyo would cause complete and utter chaos.

 

[iamfried]

I am sure that they had complete and utter chaos in London and Paris in WWII. Don't attempt make the WWII bombings insignificant. (Not that you consciously did that) One of the problems is that society forgets how bad things can get, we get complacent, and then this happens.

 

[miniMUNCH]

You guys touched on it already...but having designed sprinkler systems before I can say this:

Any automated fire system that uses water is not designed to fight server class B fires such as jet fuel, and especially not once the fire is roaring in full force.

Only thing that would take a fire like that down is a halon, CO2, or N2 system which would both displace oxygen and remove heat is sufficient quantity.

 

[LethalWolfe]

<< I question the original structural integrity of the WTC towers after seeing it fall like that...

I don't think there's any way in hell a 767 crashing into the Sears, John Hancock, or Empire State Buildings would possibly cause them to fall. >>



Jet fuel burns hotter and is much more volital(sp?) than the gas you put in your car. The intense heat created by the jet fuel fed fire weakend (melted is probably too strong a word) the steel frame of the WTC towers. Whatever frame work was left intact after the initial crash couldn't support the weight of the floors above the crash. So the top of the towers collapsed down onto a weakend frame and the building went down. The south tower was crashed into 2nd, but fell first because the plane hit lower on the building, thus more weight on the weakend frame.
I saw a very clear profile video of the 2nd plane in slow motion and it actually _entered_ the tower before it exploded (it got about half way in before it blew up). So all of that explosive force happended _inside_ the building. I'm surprised the tower didn't fall immediately.


Lethal

 

[Aihyah]

everywhere is dangerous. next step is biological warfare, the air will be dangerous. they strike anywhere and anyway