Is global warming for real?

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tsunek

Member
Jan 24, 2002
124
0
0
The earths climate changes routinely mainly due to fluctuations in CO2. From ice core data the natural fluctuations in CO2 are about 100ppm. THe current C02 change is about as much. The one thing that differs from how it occurs naturrally is the rate. the last 100pm(before the one we are in now) occured over a perioud of around 50,000 years. THe current one just about the last 100 years. much faster than anything naturally observed.
 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
2
71
At one time there were glaciers in the Great Plains of the U.S. Did they recede due to global warming caused by too many cooking fires started by Native American Indians?

Everything on Earth is cyclic. 50 years from now some freaks are going to be running around accusing mankind of causing global cooling.
 

tsunek

Member
Jan 24, 2002
124
0
0
CLimate change on the scale that is occuring now is not natural. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. If it was't for it earth would be to cold for life to exist. THe levels of CO2 are getting to the point where they will cause major changes in the global climate on the order 0f 10-12 degrees farenheit within the next century. Think about all the carbon stores we have liberated from the earth in the form of coal, oil and natural gas. I'm not saying we should stop using these fuels as it is incredibly impractical at this time. I do think it is necessary for the population to release that human caused global climate change is real.
 

tsunek

Member
Jan 24, 2002
124
0
0
and your that those concerned with global warming are freaks just doesn't make sense.

In the town that i live in upstate new york the city is considering adhering to the kyoto protocol CO2 reductions even if the nation is not. This means they are going for a 7% reduction in emmissions below the 1990 level. The proposol for it is easily implementable and will save taxpayers in the community between 3 and 4 million annually due to reduced energy costs. environmental reforms at times not only make sense from an environmental perspective they also make sense at times from an economic perspective

The vast majority of scientists believe that global climate change is occuring. Many scientific organizations and journals have come out with formal statements declaring the severity of this problem. It is true that there are some scientists who have published data that discredits global warming. NEarly of this data has been published in non peer review magazines where there findings are not validated by the scientific community.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126


<< Is global warming for real? >>



Sure it's real. Of course, so is global cooling. The next dominant global climate pattern may just as easily be an ice age as a greenhouse. If you can somehow prove either proposition is imminent within the next 100 years or so, there's a nice Nobel prize waiting for you in Stockholm.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Since historically, warming trends tend to follow population expansion, and particularly, industrialization, it makes a lot of sense to consider the consequenses of things like continuing to expand the discharge of fossile fuel exhaust and man-made chemical compounds into the environment. It's got to be better than continuing to do it without such understanding until we wake up one day to find it's too late to do anything about it.
 
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HermitGuy

Senior member
Aug 21, 2001
336
0
76
Everything on Earth is cyclic. 50 years from now some freaks are going to be running around accusing mankind of causing global cooling.

Your probably right there, I've already seen that argument back in the 70's when the enviro-waco's where yelling about the coming ice age. While I don't go along with the enviro-waco's on much of anything we should clean up after ourselves. Let's just try to be reasonable in how we go about it.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81


<< << Not only are we putting CO2 into the atmosphere, we're cutting down the forests and destroying habitat >>


The only problem with that argument is that the level of forestation in the world has never been higher than now. Man cuts down trees, but these days reclamation projects buy the lumber companies plant more than ever. The development of infrastructure also creates natural fire breaks which saves thousands and thousands of acres of foliage evey year. My ex's dad is head of the Forestry department at Texas A&M and we have been over this topic many times and according to well documented research modern man has actually increasedthe amount of forestation worldwide. Although most of this increase has been incidental rather than intentional it still blows a lot of the enviro-whacko's theories right out of the water.
>>



I don't believe that. There can't be more forest than there used to be.. Because it's all been replaced by houses and asphalt. Think about it. Everywhere you see houses and roads used to be wild habitat, untouched at some point. You drive around Oregon, and you see hill after hill that has been clearcut. Yeah, they replant the trees.. But it's not the same. Just think of how many species of microorganisms alone are disrupted when we go into an area and cut the 700 year old trees down? Just think of how many of them we haven't even discovered yet.

Have you ever seen the picture of the united states' city lights from space? The whole east coast is lit up like a lightbulb. There are no true forests left, let alone old growth.
 

tsunek

Member
Jan 24, 2002
124
0
0
the claim that forestation seems to be increasing seems doubtfull
just considering the rate of loss in the developing world where their chief source of energy is biomass.
Many countries such as nepal are having problems with wood consumption and distribution this renewable energy soure(not clean though) is being depleted to aggressively to be sustainable to the peoples there. THis is the case throughtout the developing world due to increased urbanization (distance to energy sources farther) population growth rates and poor forestry management skills. I have a friend who does research in africa on fish populations in the lake malawi relate to diseases among human poplulations in the area. every time they go back couple more mountains are lacking any forestation.

IN the us it seems that forestation is also decreasing due to an urban to suburban migration. Open spaces around cities are getting and scarcer as developers build new developments.
 

HOWITIS

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2001
2,165
0
76
is global warming occuring? possibly.

but you also have to consider that, like many have said, the earth goes through cycles. we are currently comming out of an ice age. just remember that at one time florida was basicly covered with water, and it WILL happen again. no matter what we do. some people just think we are speading up the process. which is very possible. but i don't really care, i'll be long gone before anything too bad happens. besides many countires already have dikes too stop the oceans from flooding out the country side. we could do the same, especially 50-100 years down the line. the real problem is with third world countries who couldn't adapt, and to the possible climate changes.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
I agree that we have no real way of knowing whether the changes the Earth is experiencing are natural or not.

But regardless, I'm saying that doesen't matter. Even if it only effects things "a little bit", the things we put into our atmosphere aren't exactly positive.

Remember, those billions of carbon dioxide pumps we have only pump out pure carbon dioxide when they're operating 100% efficently. Of course, none do.

I'll take some NOx and CO with my N, O2 and CO2 thankyou very much.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81


<< I don't believe that. There can't be more forest than there used to be.. Because it's all been replaced by houses and asphalt. >>


Actually, the amount of farmland greatly exceeds the amount of urban area. People never think of farmland as being "developed" but it is in a way since it's not natural anymore.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
According to this site, the amount of forest in the world has decreased but the level in the US has increased in the last 50 years. Doesn't say anything about the level of forestation in the US now compared to ~300 years ago.
link

According to this site, global forest cover has been reduced by 20 percent since pre-agricultural times, and possibly as much as 50 percent forests
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126


<< I don't believe that. There can't be more forest than there used to be.. >>



You may not believe it, but the co-founder of Greenpeace does. "Greens don't see the forest for the trees"

It's amazing how counter-productive the environmental movement is proving to be, and how many otherwise good hearted people are being led to support acts and policies which are directly harmful to the environment, their stated goal. Perhaps at some point those good hearted people will stop being gullible and recognize many of those in the "environmental movement" for the con artists that they are.
 

CocaCola5

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2001
1,599
0
0
Maybe it'll bring back lost species from the last ICE AGE. Seriously, I think its real, how much impact remains to be seen.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81


<< It's amazing how counter-productive the environmental movement is proving to be, and how many otherwise good hearted people are being led to support acts and policies which are directly harmful to the environment, their stated goal. Perhaps at some point those good hearted people will stop being gullible and recognize many of those in the "environmental movement" for the con artists that they are. >>



That's an interesting point there glenn1. Sure there are con-artists on boths sides of many enviromental/scientific issues. One example is the tobacco companies who paid scientific whores during the 70's-90's to provide false interpretation of data. There are these whores on both sides who are unwilling to reason and have a logical reasoned debate. However, most scientists percribe to the scientific method which has fail safe machanisms that guarantees impartiality, www.scientificmethod.com. Some of these are peer-review, and double blind tests. You'll find the most reliable information in journals like Science and even in magazines like Scientific American. . My suggestion is to take a college level class in enviromental science and make you own conclusions based on all the evidence.
 

tsunek

Member
Jan 24, 2002
124
0
0
Sciene came out with a statement last summer concerning global warming. THe jist was that global warming was occuring and is projected to keep occuring and that policy should be produced to in some ways address it
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,480
12,622
126
www.anyf.ca
It can clearly be observed. just look at say 10-20 years ago. Winters were colder, there was more snow, and weather was more stable, with only the oddball abnormality. Now? There's less snow, it's less cold, and weather is as abnormal as it's ever been. More major storms, and record breaking temperatures, or other abnormal weather in places that never got that type of weather before etc. Like some places that never get snow that get pounded. The trend latetly seems to be that the south gets tons of snow now when they never did, and we get less. It's not so much "global warming" as in "climate change" but it is warmer too. Scientists have also observed drastic sea level temperature increases over the years as well. The glaciers in Antarctica and North Pole are melting at an alarming rate as well. It's only going to get worse if we don't stop polluting. But it's not like we have any control over that, it's the megacorporations and governments that do, and they have no incentive to stop (they only make us think they do), and they will continue to squeeze every little bit they can out of this planet until we all die. The attitude most people have is "I'll be dead before it's a problem" which is kind of sad for future generations. I personally don't think it will become a huge issue in my life time but at the rate we are polluting I would not give the planet more than a couple hundred years. What may possibly happen is if humans die off first whatever is left of nature might slowly fix the planet and it may regain itself over time, but what will probably happen is we'll manage to survive longer than nature because of technology, but when that technology decides to break down is when we will be doomed as a species.

What is really interesting is that when the glaciers do melt completely, what kind of ancient diseases is that going to release. The flooding is only going to be an issue for coastal regions, but the diseases will affect everyone.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,123
14,491
146
Damn Glenn1's been pulling the climate "skeptic" shtick for 15 years.

Let no fact bother you I guess.
 
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