Is global warming for real?

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Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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It's not really rocket science.

Go setup a green house and grow some plants.

Same effect.


The debate is whether the earth is warming due to natural processes, or because of us. Not if it is warming.

Even if it's not due to human activity, who cares?

It's not like all the crap we put into our atmosphere is a good thing.

You can't look at the planet today, compared to what it was like even a few hundred years ago and say that we haven't changed our planet. The climate system is chain like, just like the creature hierarchy...

You can't possibly think that basically clearing whole continents of foliage and wildlife hasn't had any effect on the balance the planet once held..

It's just too bad recorded history only goes back about 50 years. We're just going to have to see what happens, I guess. We still need to be proactive in the meantime though. :disgust:

Doesen't it alarm anybody that we have hundreds of millions.. even billions? I don't know.. There's a lot.. of these little pumps.. that suck in our oxygen.. use it to burn fuel.. and then spit out carbon dioxide, at best? :Q

I think they're called engines. lol...


Personally, the only thing I raise an eye-brow to the debate on is simply what brings on an ice age? No one can answer this, which would effectively reset the entire landscape of global warming and would basically serve as a reset button so to speak.

Plus, I made a thread in P&N basically asking people - what would happen if we no longer depended on oil. We have ~20 wealthy countries that are 100% reliant upon oil, we would effectively have WW3 if the likes of Saudi Arabia were no longer able to sustain an economy. No one was able to answer how we would answer that other than bullshit answers like "They will adapt or die" dur hur.
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
6,471
32
91
There is so much oil, that's what most people don't realize.

People used to say we hit peak oil already, but we aren't even close. There is thousands and thousands and thousands of years of oil. Humanity will be long wiped out by asteroid impact, supervirus, famine, water shortage etc long before oil is even close to "running out"

It's all the plants in the ground, that's another thing people don't realize. They think oil is dinosaur bones. Oil is ALL of the foilage along with animals and everything else that has ever lived. It all spends long enough time in the ground it forms oil.

Millions and millions and millions of years of matter, all in the soil and extractable. You could say the Earth is practically turning into oil.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,935
12,384
126
www.anyf.ca
Climate change is real but the powers that be are using this (natural) phenomenon as a means to institute new taxations and systems of social control imo

That is true. The concept of a carbon tax on the people is the most idiotic thing ever and does not help anything at all. If they really cared about reducing carbon footprint they would start at the top. Gas cars are standard, electric cars are niche. How about change that. Natural gas is cheaper than hydro for heating. Change that too, make hydro cheaper. People only use carbon based energy because that is what we are given and that is what is made more accessible. Heck if I wanted to buy an electric car I don't even know where I would start, dealershps don't even stock those, and there definitely arn't any on the used market either because they are too niche. By taxing people the only thing they're doing is preventing them from changing to greener energy. For example if you tax someone who is saving up for an electric car or a solar system, it just means they won't be able to because now all that money is going to the government.

Heck, in some places they even forbid solar, or tax it. Basically as it is now the government is doing everything to discourage people from going green. I'm sure when electric cars do start to take off, they'll find a way to stop it, like they did many years ago. The concept of an electric car is old, but every time it gains traction they stop it.

The government wants to continue to ride the big oil gravy train for as long as it is possible. Oil is a finite resource though, once it's all used up they'll move on to something else. Maybe electric vehicles, but they'll want to control the world lithium (or any battery minerals that are used at the time) supply like they do oil.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
Personally, the only thing I raise an eye-brow to the debate on is simply what brings on an ice age? No one can answer this, which would effectively reset the entire landscape of global warming and would basically serve as a reset button so to speak.

Plus, I made a thread in P&N basically asking people - what would happen if we no longer depended on oil. We have ~20 wealthy countries that are 100% reliant upon oil, we would effectively have WW3 if the likes of Saudi Arabia were no longer able to sustain an economy. No one was able to answer how we would answer that other than bullshit answers like "They will adapt or die" dur hur.
The PBS video I linked on the previous page explains exactly how ice ages occur.

Maybe check it out?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
There is so much oil, that's what most people don't realize.

People used to say we hit peak oil already, but we aren't even close. There is thousands and thousands and thousands of years of oil. Humanity will be long wiped out by asteroid impact, supervirus, famine, water shortage etc long before oil is even close to "running out"

It's all the plants in the ground, that's another thing people don't realize. They think oil is dinosaur bones. Oil is ALL of the foilage along with animals and everything else that has ever lived. It all spends long enough time in the ground it forms oil.

Millions and millions and millions of years of matter, all in the soil and extractable. You could say the Earth is practically turning into oil.

Yup and we need to plan to leave most but not all of it in the ground.
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Warming is the natural result of us adding CO2 to the system. If you think the CO2 is from natural sources you'll need to address where it's coming from, why the change in radioisotopes of carbon match an increasing amount of old buried carbon being burned, and how this natural source overwhelms our contribution but only equals the effect we've measured.

I'll wait.
I doubt you'll get a reasonable answer. People like him prefer to listen to their pastor doling out bro-science.
 

elitejp

Golden Member
Jan 2, 2010
1,080
20
81
Unfortunately this is more political than scientific. So trying to decide how much we have damaged the planet and how serious this actually is is very difficult to know. But whether its political or truly scientific its not like we shouldnt be trying to help the planet. All in all im not worried. Wait another 50 years and just see all the new technology that is available to have clean energy
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
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I doubt you'll get a reasonable answer. People like him prefer to listen to their pastor doling out bro-science.
I've occasionally convinced someone, but in reality my response really aren't for the "skeptic", they are for anyone reading along whom might be on the fence

So while I don't expect future to be swayed by facts or evidence he's still useful to me.

Unfortunately this is more political than scientific. So trying to decide how much we have damaged the planet and how serious this actually is is very difficult to know. But whether its political or truly scientific its not like we shouldnt be trying to help the planet. All in all im not worried. Wait another 50 years and just see all the new technology that is available to have clean energy

The debate is more political but understanding the damage it can cause is not. Simply verify your sources. Reports that link peer reviewed scientific articles are generally trustworthy. Opinion pieces from business magazines or random youtubers not so much. Climate science is as well supported a theory as gravity or relativity.

The other things to realize is it's not the planet we are worrying about but the impact to us. As George Carlin said, the planet will be fine, the people will be fucked.

Finally new technology doesn't spring magically from a genie. If we don't understand the issues facing us our new technology won't address them. Clean energy is now becoming cheap and ubiquitous because people understood the environmental problems facing us, so design and engineering talent were thrown that way. If we'd listen to the physics deniers you wouldn't magically see new clean technology
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
weather is as abnormal as it's ever been
I been wondering about weather models. It seems the weather forecasts aren't as accurate as in the past. I wonder if the model parameters are changing and they haven't nailed down the models to the new weather patterns.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
People used to say we hit peak oil already, but we aren't even close.

Peak oil is not, and has never been, about how much oil is in the ground. Peak oil refers to the intersect of our ability to extract and refine oil and our need for that oil. Our demand for oil products has been growing faster than our ability to extract and refine oil, once we have more need than ability we will have hit peak oil. Then oil prices will skyrocket and there will be fighting over who gets what production we do have.
 

richaron

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,357
329
136
My problem with Americans is how politicized they are. It's as though a person can't just agree with a portion of *A* party's policies. It's like those US muppets just sign up with one side of politics and then just swallow/follow everthing they are told to.

For example I support both nuclear power and much stricter environmental controls. I also support strict border controls and internet privacy. I'm pretty sure people like me who make up their own mind would make American's heads explode.

On topic; man made global warming is an idea accepted by a huge majority of experts in the climate field. Seriously +90%, perhaps +97%, of the people who are experts in this area tell you the man made global warming exists. These are real scientists. The others who are arguing against man mad climate change are just relying on ignorant sheep following political ideals to give them credibility. Skeptical Science is a good site to find answers to most of the deniers nonsense.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,658
12,781
146
My problem with Americans is how politicized they are. It's as though a person can't just agree with a portion of *A* party's policies. It's like those US muppets just sign up with one side of politics and then just swallow/follow everthing they are told to.

For example I support both nuclear power and much stricter environmental controls. I also support strict border controls and internet privacy. I'm pretty sure people like me who make up their own mind would make American's heads explode.

On topic; man made global warming is an idea accepted by a huge majority of experts in the climate field. Seriously +90%, perhaps +97%, of the people who are experts in this area tell you the man made global warming exists. These are real scientists. The others who are arguing against man mad climate change are just relying on ignorant sheep following political ideals to give them credibility. Skeptical Science is a good site to find answers to most of the deniers nonsense.
Most people are probably in agreement with you, they're the silent majority though. The loud ones are on the soapbox screaming about mining the internet, or banning whoever, etc. Unfortunately when voting time rolls around, we only get to vote between 2-3 loud soapboxy asshats, so we get what we vote for. Anyhow, trying to keep this out of P&N, so yes, manmade climate change is a thing, apolitical, and it will bite everyone in the rear sooner rather than later (a generation or three).
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
I been wondering about weather models. It seems the weather forecasts aren't as accurate as in the past. I wonder if the model parameters are changing and they haven't nailed down the models to the new weather patterns.

just your perception, not based in fact weather forecast have gotten better but they will never be hundred percent accurate. Heard the adage a fly can fart in africa setting up a hurricane that hits the US? Also remember weather is short term like days climate is long term and what really matters.
 

ctbaars

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,568
163
106
Our per-capita co2 production is very high. Would it be safe to say that this is due to the enormous distances we have to travel to do anything, especially work, compared to other nations? I don't think electric cars will stop this due to to the high co2 cost of production. It's a wash if I recall correctly.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,658
12,781
146
Our per-capita co2 production is very high. Would it be safe to say that this is due to the enormous distances we have to travel to do anything, especially work, compared to other nations? I don't think electric cars will stop this due to to the high co2 cost of production. It's a wash if I recall correctly.
Partially, we also have gone through 200 years of breakneck industrial revolution. We put out a lot of co2 now, but we've put out a lot of co2 in the last 150 yrs. Some of it is spooling down due to things like renewable energy coming online, some spooling up due to increased agriculture requirements and production of our clean energy factories, among other stuff.

The real scary part is the industrialization and westernization of previously second-ish world nations, like China and India. Whole lotta folks there that will be itching for cars, tv's, and all sorts of other fun 'first world' stuff.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
Our per-capita co2 production is very high. Would it be safe to say that this is due to the enormous distances we have to travel to do anything, especially work, compared to other nations? I don't think electric cars will stop this due to to the high co2 cost of production. It's a wash if I recall correctly.

The best estimate I've seen of the carbon footprint of producing an EV is that it's more or less equal to a similarly sized ICE vehicle. Now once it his the road the carbon footprint of actual use is far more favorable to the EV, especially as coal falls out of the electricity generation mix.
 
Sep 29, 2004
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Warren Buffet said it best.

It is a fact that global warming is occurring. What is not known for sure is if it caused by humans so people argue about it instead of being proactive. Given the risks associated with it and possibility that it is being caused by humans, it makes absolutely no sense for humans to not act more responsibly.
 
Reactions: Thebobo
Sep 29, 2004
18,665
67
91
If the atmosphere were getting too much CO2, then wouldn't more trees and plant life grow to stablize/use the excessive amounts of CO2 levels? Equilibrium....

Some people say that the world is getting warmer thus causing the polar ice caps to melt which will soon cause flooding of coast lines. However doesn't warmer temperature equate into more water being evaporated? Where does it rain/snow the most (i.e. where is all this water going)?

Don't forget about the massive methane pockets under that ice that will be released making global warming even worse.

As for trees, here is a fun factoid: If you took all the pavement ion the USA (roads, parking, driveway, etc) and made one parking lot, it would be the size of Texas.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
Don't forget about the massive methane pockets under that ice that will be released making global warming even worse.

As for trees, here is a fun factoid: If you took all the pavement ion the USA (roads, parking, driveway, etc) and made one parking lot, it would be the size of Texas.
Pockets of methane you say?

 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,935
12,384
126
www.anyf.ca
Our per-capita co2 production is very high. Would it be safe to say that this is due to the enormous distances we have to travel to do anything, especially work, compared to other nations? I don't think electric cars will stop this due to to the high co2 cost of production. It's a wash if I recall correctly.

People always mention the carbon footprint of producing electric cars, but gas cars require to be manufactured and disposed of too. Production carbon footprint is a 1 time event for that particular car. So yeah there is some production pollution created when building an electric car (or any other object) but if that car does not pollute for it's life it's still better than a gas car.

The biggest problem now days though is planned obsolescence. They purposely build stuff to not last. You should be able to buy a car and it should last 10-20 years before it starts to rust. But you're lucky to get like 1 year now days and by 10 years the car is falling apart.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
When I was a youngster I worked at an Exxon station as a gas station attendant (we would pump your gas for those toddlers or who don't live in NJ) I remember receiving a bulletin from our wiper blade manufacturer Anco that they were discontinuing a line of blades because basically they were lasting to long. We use to get a commision so we would sell blades, hoses, wiper fluid, horn fluid to anyone we could.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
136
Yes its damn real, I am living in India, and since 2005 the temperature is getting hotter and hotter every year. i don't know what will happen after 20 years if things are going this way, A research suggested its due to excessive carbon in the environment and we cant eliminate it even if we plant trees all around the earth.

You got a problem for sure, ganges is drying up, maybe 20 years left, and that's the end of much of india's culture and hindu religion as well as the most famous drainage sewer in the world.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/16/AR2007061600461.html
 
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