Is god pissed?

[Moonbeam]

Are we not beings that via our ancient senses and the growth of brain capacity reached a stage of evolution that includes a sense of self awareness. Do we not have a sense of individuality based on our capacity to use language to talk to ourselves. This is me and that is you. This feels good and that feels bad. This is good and that is evil. This person is good and that person is evil. Follow these rules if you want to feel deserving of life.... Is that kind of thought the original sin? Was there once upon a time no feelings of guilt?

If so and if also there is a way to return to that state, seems to me that some system of return would be invented and even over and over again depending on local conditions.

And since we are stuck with language to communicate and words must be transcended to reach such a place, religion would just be a means to an end and not itself the truth. If you don't know what you are doing, you can get badly burnt trying to boil water. But since only a fool doesn't know how to boil water, who would admit to needing advise? In the land of fools the wise are the ones that get called that.

 

[Leeea]

Otherwise you are just repeating faith based stuff no more valid than any other religion or spaghetti monster in the sky.

How suggestive of you!

Suggestions 1: Thou shalt have no other monsters before Me. (Afterwards is OK; just use protection.) The only Monster who deserves capitalization is Me! Other monsters are false monsters, undeserving of capitalization.
11. Thou ought ever seek to improve thy Pasta, to more closely approach the Divine Noodliness.

Are you sure you even want to question the divinity of The Monster? You risk the Eternal Strainer! Or even worse, missing out on some of the best Pasta you will ever get a chance to eat.

Think carefully on your choices here.


Despite the intentions of the author, and those who organize around it, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is another perspective on God. He does all the important God things. Unites his followers in a common cause, tells them how they should live, gives them a common sense of community, a common belief, a common set of rituals. Basically, a quick and easy way to build relationships and community. God is Love and the Flying Spaghetti Monster fits the spec. If that is what a person prefers, good for them.

 

[arredondo]

Provide a single shred of objective evidence God exists. Just one bit of evidence. Quoting a book written 1,50o years ago that was written by men and has so many inconsistencies in content is not proof.

Why is your Bible any more objectively proof of God that the Bhagavad Gita?

Don’t quote the Bible. Provide proof and evidence. It is the responsibility of the claimant to provide proof.

You're asking a question but are choosing to restrict the answer. It's like asking someone what does 2+3 equal but instructing them not to use any numbers in their response. In the end, the only thing that matters is the truth of the gift inside the box, not how it is wrapped. So it is for life, the universe, and everything.

With that said, it doesn't matter what I think so if you only want to hear from me, I have nothing of value to share. However, if you legitimately want a truthful response to your questions, I already shed a light on what God has to say about the "evidence" of Himself and His word earlier in this thread right here as a response to others who asked similar questions.

You used the word "objectively". OK, if the God of the bible is real, He clearly explains how He reveals Himself and His will in scriptures like a few of the ones I put in this post. How can you (or me) or anyone objectively tell God that He can't do that? You can disagree with what He says all you want (you clearly have been doing that so far in your life), but the idea that the created can demand the Creator to do things his way objectively makes no sense.

 

[arredondo]

What kind of an asshole has Clint as their avatar, then preaches "kindness, self control from sin, love, joy, etc."? Must have fired their pistols in a closed room with no ventilation, the lead ended up in their brain.

Haha, Clint has been my avatar here for a couple of decades, and I registered here soon after getting saved so it never crossed my mind about what message it might convey. There's actually no general issue with good guys taking care of bad guys in the bible, which sometimes happens violently. However, I can see how being a mercenary (which Clint was in his spaghetti westerns) can cause problems with some.

With all that said, I have no desire to trip up someone on this kind of issue even if it could be argued that it isn't a big deal. Why? It says so in 1 Corinthians 8 where Paul explains why it isn't a big deal for a Christian (spiritually speaking) to eat meat he bought that was offered to idols in a cultish ceremony, but it would be advisable not to do so if it will offend others who are sensitive to what that represents, especially if the act could cause even a Christian friend to stumble.

tl;dr... I changed my avatar of twenty years so it no longer offends you. I just hope you're not a Celtic fan or we will really have a problem. 🏀

 

[arredondo]

LOL! First, one sentence from a verse is meaningless, and generally taken out of context and can be subject to thousands of interpretations. You have to show the full chapter/passage, so you can put that sentence in it's proper context per the bible. What have done is written your personal beliefs of your interpretation of that one sentence, not the actual full passage. And your interpetations are molded by your church's/Pastor's teachings.

With that said, the bible is written by man, not god. Now, if you want to argue, that the bible is written by God thru the hand of man, then you have to admit that god himself changes his mind because there are some serious contradictions between the old and new testimate. I had this same discussion with my mother, and she tried to claim that the old testimate is before Jesus walked the earth, So it wasn't fully accurate. So the new testimate is "accurate". But if the bible was written by god thru the hand of man, then that would have to be true for both the old testimate and the new testimate. Correct? So if that is the case, why the contradictions? Even the bible, says man is inheritantly sinful, so how can a book written by the hand of man, who is inheritanlty sinful, per the scriptures in the bible, be considered factual when you take into the scriptures own teachings? Then you add in the church's/pastor's who are controled by man, or are man, not GOD, teaching from a book written by man. Now, do I believe that there is a GOD, Yes! Do I believe there are elements of the Bible that are true and factual, Yes, but the majority of it is not, and was/is written for the purpose to control people. If many of the teaching's in the bible where enacted by a goverment, we wouldn't be considered a free country because we wouldn't have most of our freedoms. But there are people trying to put such a government in place, and the majority are against it for that very reason..

In response to your observations about the bible being written purely by man and not by God through men, I addressed this topic earlier when it was raised earlier by someone with the same point of view. It contains these two verses where the Lord says how He had the bible put together:

~~~~~
2 Peter 1:20-21
"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"
~~~~~

Moving on to some of your other points, you make the assertion (essentially) that the interpretation of the scriptures can go a bunch of different, sometimes conflicting directions depending on who is explaining it. Even the explanation from your dear mama didn't add up to you. A simple answer to that charge (which has some truth to it, BTW) is this: it doesn't matter what people say the scriptures mean.

The only perspective that matters when it comes to the true interpretation of the word of God is God Himself. It is the Holy Spirit that determines how to read the bible in a way that is potentially satisfying to each individual person, but it is only based on the outcome described in 2 Timothy 3:16 above, not what YOU (or anyone) demand from the bible. One important way the Holy Spirit validates the understanding of scripture is, believe it or not, through the scriptures themselves.

The more one studies God word, the more eye opening it becomes when you notice how a perspective expressed in a chapter in the New Testament is backed up by several passages in the Old Testament despite the words being written at times a thousand years apart. So how is one supposed to wade through all of the nonsense to get to God's truth in His word? The Holy Spirit will guide you if you sincerely want to know more about what He has to say as you read it. Jesus said this about the Holy Spirit:

~~~~~
John 16:13-14
"He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you."
~~~~~

As I said above, the bible backs itself up with other passages. Here is one on this same topic that goes into more detail about how we learn what is on God's mind throughout the bible as revealed solely by the Holy Spirit:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:10-12
"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words."
~~~~~

So what about those who read various parts of the bible (or simply some of the verses I've posted) and declare it to be nonsense? The bible addresses that as well coincidently in the very next paragraph:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:13-14
"These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
~~~~~

That last sentence is partially what I shared in response to various people (including someone a few posts up in a link) who say they need "proof" before they believe in God. The bible has the proof, but the scriptures are foolishness to them because they are not emotionally or intellectually discerned, but are spiritually discerned and can only make sense to them when the Holy Spirit reveals their meaning to their spirit (which is the real person inside every human body, according to scriptures).

This is why it is pointless for forum members here to ask me or anyone else they know to prove anything about the bible. Its truths are spiritually discerned, and only the Holy Spirit can make it "real" to them so that they can go to heaven instead oi hell. How does the Holy Spirit reveal it to an unbeliever? There are many passages in the bible that explain it, but here's one where Jesus explained it like this:

~~~~~
Matthew 13:31-32
He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
~~~~~

Repeatedly, the bible uses the mustard seed as a simile for faith. Despite being the tiniest, observable seed in the ancient world, its full growth becomes immense. Jesus is literally describing that the way one makes it into heaven is to have the faith in God the size of an infinitesimally small mustard seed.... as long as it is real.

One might say, there has to be other ways to reach heaven that would satisfy God (like going through life as a generally good person). The bible refutes that concept over and over again. Here are a few definitive verses:

~~~~~
Psalm 53:3
"Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Romans 3:23
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Hebrews 11:5
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
~~~~~

So how does one acquire that type of faith?

~~~~~
Romans 3:17
"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
~~~~~

Only the bible, which shares the gospel of Jesus Christ dying for the sins you and I committed and rising from the dead three days later to make heaven available for all is able to generate the mustard seed of faith within you that is being described. No other option is available to avoid hell and make it into heaven. No other interpretation of the scriptures that conflicts with this solution will suffice. All that matters is whether or not you will choose to respond favorably to what God is offering.

 

[IronWing]

I hope you washed your hands after that episode of furious masturbation.

 

[Indus]

Bible this, Quran that.

Been more killing on this earth over this so called invisble god than everything else combined.

And these so called book of religion are books of enslavement.
Quite simply.. don't obey the law.. go to jail.
For the stupid.. don't obey the bible/ quran.. go to hell!

 

[Pohemi]

My goal in my responses to anyone is not to post what I think on a topic, but what God has said on that topic.

But it IS what YOU think, NOT what "God" said. Just like your OP, you continue passing off your beliefs and faith as word-of-God proofed by a book that was not written by God, despite your many delusions.

Tou do not know that "God" said anything at all, much less attributing specific quotes to him.

You are a blasphemer, and you do not speak for a deity. I doubt you'll get that through your thick skull, though.

I wrote a book that says you are a gullible fool for believing anything in the bible. But really it was just God writing it through me, so it must be true, right? Right??

Even when debating religious faith, you need at least a sliver of logic. You haven't a shred of it.

Truly a classic. I always like the observation -don't recall which comedian made it and paraphrasing here- That at the head of every religion is a bunch of dudes in funny hats.

Someone said it already, but yeah it was Carlin.

 

[brycejones]

In response to your observations about the bible being written purely by man and not by God through men, I addressed this topic earlier when it was raised earlier by someone with the same point of view. It contains these two verses where the Lord says how He had the bible put together:

~~~~~
2 Peter 1:20-21
"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"
~~~~~

Self referential bullshit is self referential bullshit.

Good grief the intellectual spinning it takes to believe a book is the word of god because it says it’s the word of god.

So given all the other writings that claim to be from god based on what evidence did you determine the Bible is the correct one? Can you respond with evidence that is not a Bible verse?

 

[APU_Fusion]

You're asking a question but are choosing to restrict the answer. It's like asking someone what does 2+3 equal but instructing them not to use any numbers in their response. In the end, the only thing that matters is the truth of the gift inside the box, not how it is wrapped. So it is for life, the universe, and everything.

With that said, it doesn't matter what I think so if you only want to hear from me, I have nothing of value to share. However, if you legitimately want a truthful response to your questions, I already shed a light on what God has to say about the "evidence" of Himself and His word earlier in this thread right here as a response to others who asked similar questions.

You used the word "objectively". OK, if the God of the bible is real, He clearly explains how He reveals Himself and His will in scriptures like a few of the ones I put in this post. How can you (or me) or anyone objectively tell God that He can't do that? You can disagree with what He says all you want (you clearly have been doing that so far in your life), but the idea that the created can demand the Creator to do things his way objectively makes no sense.

So, you have no answer to my question. So, objective truth and proof is restricting? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


You state, If the God in the Bible is real? What kind of objective hypothesis is that? You are using a false premise to start a chain of premises to justify the truth of the original false premise.

Again, provide a single shred of proof God exists. Don’t use the circular reading of the Bible says so so God is real because God revealed the truth in the Bible. What nonsense and circular reasoning.

Again, which translation are you using for Bible? Are you following the Nicaea Council books of the Bible which were included as a result of decisions by a bunch of men? Remember they thought Mary Magedeline was a whore which was false according to later teachings. So did God make a mistake or did man when it came to Mary Magedeline?

Why is your God without proof in the Bible in more true than Krishna from the Bhagavad Gita? Neither provides any objective testable proof.

🥱

 

[NWRMidnight]

In response to your observations about the bible being written purely by man and not by God through men, I addressed this topic earlier when it was raised earlier by someone with the same point of view. It contains these two verses where the Lord says how He had the bible put together:

~~~~~
2 Peter 1:20-21
"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"
~~~~~

Moving on to some of your other points, you make the assertion (essentially) that the interpretation of the scriptures can go a bunch of different, sometimes conflicting directions depending on who is explaining it. Even the explanation from your dear mama didn't add up to you. A simple answer to that charge (which has some truth to it, BTW) is this: it doesn't matter what people say the scriptures mean.

The only perspective that matters when it comes to the true interpretation of the word of God is God Himself. It is the Holy Spirit that determines how to read the bible in a way that is potentially satisfying to each individual person, but it is only based on the outcome described in 2 Timothy 3:16 above, not what YOU (or anyone) demand from the bible. One important way the Holy Spirit validates the understanding of scripture is, believe it or not, through the scriptures themselves.

The more one studies God word, the more eye opening it becomes when you notice how a perspective expressed in a chapter in the New Testament is backed up by several passages in the Old Testament despite the words being written at times a thousand years apart. So how is one supposed to wade through all of the nonsense to get to God's truth in His word? The Holy Spirit will guide you if you sincerely want to know more about what He has to say as you read it. Jesus said this about the Holy Spirit:

~~~~~
John 16:13-14
"He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you."
~~~~~

As I said above, the bible backs itself up with other passages. Here is one on this same topic that goes into more detail about how we learn what is on God's mind throughout the bible as revealed solely by the Holy Spirit:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:10-12
"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words."
~~~~~

So what about those who read various parts of the bible (or simply some of the verses I've posted) and declare it to be nonsense? The bible addresses that as well coincidently in the very next paragraph:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:13-14
"These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
~~~~~

That last sentence is partially what I shared in response to various people (including someone a few posts up in a link) who say they need "proof" before they believe in God. The bible has the proof, but the scriptures are foolishness to them because they are not emotionally or intellectually discerned, but are spiritually discerned and can only make sense to them when the Holy Spirit reveals their meaning to their spirit (which is the real person inside every human body, according to scriptures).

This is why it is pointless for forum members here to ask me or anyone else they know to prove anything about the bible. Its truths are spiritually discerned, and only the Holy Spirit can make it "real" to them so that they can go to heaven instead oi hell. How does the Holy Spirit reveal it to an unbeliever? There are many passages in the bible that explain it, but here's one where Jesus explained it like this:

~~~~~
Matthew 13:31-32
He presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds, but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
~~~~~

Repeatedly, the bible uses the mustard seed as a simile for faith. Despite being the tiniest, observable seed in the ancient world, its full growth becomes immense. Jesus is literally describing that the way one makes it into heaven is to have the faith in God the size of an infinitesimally small mustard seed.... as long as it is real.

One might say, there has to be other ways to reach heaven that would satisfy God (like going through life as a generally good person). The bible refutes that concept over and over again. Here are a few definitive verses:

~~~~~
Psalm 53:3
"Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Romans 3:23
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Hebrews 11:5
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
~~~~~

So how does one acquire that type of faith?

~~~~~
Romans 3:17
"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
~~~~~

Only the bible, which shares the gospel of Jesus Christ dying for the sins you and I committed and rising from the dead three days later to make heaven available for all is able to generate the mustard seed of faith within you that is being described. No other option is available to avoid hell and make it into heaven. No other interpretation of the scriptures that conflicts with this solution will suffice. All that matters is whether or not you will choose to respond favorably to what God is offering.

Dude, You are trying to use words taken out of the very book, written by man, that is being questioned, to try and convince people that it was written by the hand of god. Oh wait.. you quoted, Inspired by god... as if that changes anything. Do you not comprehend the problem with that? Not only are you using the very book that is in question, to try and make your case, and answer questions, but you either didn't comprehend what I said, or you ignored it, because you are not posting the entire chapter which would put, those cherry picked words, into proper context. Anyone can pull a sentence or two from a book and say they mean XYZ.

So again if the bible was written by God thru the hand of man, then the bible is proof that God changes his mind. Why else would there be a need for a new testimate to be written which contradicts the old testimate? Oh wait, you said using quotes from the bible: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness". Guess what, inspired, reproofing, for correction, doesn't mean god wrote it. You believe it means that man is/was inspired, from god, to "correct it", but that correction, could be just as wrong as the first man who originally was "inspired". If it truely is from god, it wouldn't be wrong to begin with.. Do you know how many fictional books are written, with people claiming that it was inspired by god? do you know that corrections are made to fictionious books all the time? How do you know that bible is correct now? if everything in the bible is indeed inspired from god? How do you know that the teaching currently in the bible won't be changed again down the road? How do you know that the bible is not fiction? Faith? Which was/is instilled by your parents/pastor/church.. I know, you will say you talk to god, like my mom says.. Yet, we have thousands of people in facilities because they hear voices and talk to them...

Which god did these people get inspired by anyhow when writting/correcting the bible anyhow? Since you believe everything in the bible, it shows that there is more than one god, as the bible says you must not warship any other god, some verions add: is named jealous, is a jealous god. (isn't jealousy considered a sin? yet god is a jealous god?) I know.. you are going to grab the bible, which by your own admittance is written by man, but inspired by god, to prove that all other gods are false gods, and probably say jealous doesn't mean jealous..

I guess my point is you are trying to use words quoted, from a book that many people believe is not factual or a work of fiction, as the proof to convice people that it's factual and not a work of fiction.

 

[Pohemi]

You will never get anywhere in this discussion with @arredondo IMO, as it wasn't started in good faith (no pun intended, btw) and he actually just wanted to proselytize to anyone participating.

/thread

 

[sdifox]

 

[arredondo]

- A number of the recent responses here since I last posted mostly revolve around one assertion: "there is no proof God is real". That was addressed many times in this thread, including here and here.

- Another common assertion is it's "me" behind what is being posted in my responses,. That was also thoroughly addressed many times in this thread, including here and here.

 

[arredondo]

Bible this, Quran that.

Been more killing on this earth over this so called invisble god than everything else combined.

And these so called book of religion are books of enslavement.
Quite simply.. don't obey the law.. go to jail.
For the stupid.. don't obey the bible/ quran.. go to hell!

When it comes to the religions / belief systems of this world and Christianity as addressed in the bible, you can read a previous posts about that here and here.

As for your point about all the killing on earth (and any other thoughts out there of all the evil in the world), the third section of four parts in this post addresses that, but for easy access I'll paste the write up below:

=====
"The issue here is you completely ignore the true source of everything bad in all of human history... sin. There was no such thing as evil or terrible circumstances or wickedness or sickness or even death until sin was introduced by His creations who defied Him.

That's the reason why no matter where you go in the world, or no matter how different cultures lived over time, one common emotion shared by most is sadness when a loved one dies. Why? Because we innately know that death is wrong. Even Jesus wept when He came to town and His friend had been declared dead for four days (though He resurrected Him later... this is all in John 11). Death, the ultimate terrible fact of the current human experience, was never meant to be.

However, one of several wonderful outcomes from Jesus laying down His own life for you and me on the cross was that He conquered death by doing so. This is because He never committed one sin His entire life of 33 years, so the law that death is the penalty for sin was unfairly applied to Him.

~~~~~
Revelation 1:18
"...I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades."

1 Corinthians 15:55
“O Death, where is your victory? O Grave, where is your sting?”
~~~~~

So God has the answer to even the worst outcome of this miserable human experience that is caused by the sins you and I committed, as well as everyone around us: salvation through Jesus Christ. Remember, the Lord does not sin, we do. He gets our praise and thankfulness because of His patience and mercy DESPITE our sinful selves.

The law being followed means that any time we sin, we are all guilty to succumb to the first death instantly (separation of the spirit from the body), and nothing required God to save us from forever suffering the second death (eternal separation from Him). Your sentence for being guilty as an unsaved person who has not accepted God's gift of grace has not yet been carried out... and you believe that you can arrogantly resent the One who created you while enjoying His mercy?

You are given a chance to not only escape the perils of hell, but to spend eternity in indescribable bliss, joy and happiness. The only thing asked of you is to accept Him through faith, and somehow He's doing you wrong? He can and will sadly honor your rebellion and rejection of Him if that's what you want, but that poor decision is not His fault. It literally makes zero sense."
=====

 

[arredondo]

<snip>
Again, which translation are you using for Bible? Are you following the Nicaea Council books of the Bible which were included as a result of decisions by a bunch of men? Remember they thought Mary Magedeline was a whore which was false according to later teachings. So did God make a mistake or did man when it came to Mary Magedeline?
</snip>

I snipped your comment because a response to the recent comments from different members about "proof" is a few posts up.

As for which translation of the bible I'm using, there are a number of them that I reference including the King James, New King James, and the English Standard Version. I primarily use both the 1995 New American Standard bible and Legacy bible translations for my daily reading. There are others that are definitely sufficient, though.

Your question does bring up an interesting and important point though... which version is "right"? Answering that starts off with this premise: that the Holy Spirit inspired specific men over several thousands of years to put down what He wanted to say to us in writing.

~~~~~
2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"

2 Peter 1:21
"For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:13
"And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual."

1 Thessalonians 2:13
"And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers."
~~~~~

There are plenty of other references establishing this as biblical fact. God is 100% behind everything what we read in the bible. The original physical writings in the are all lost in time. My personal theory on why God allowed the original material to become lost is based on what happened in one instance to the Jews in the wilderness after they sinned against God as described in Numbers 21:6-9.

The Lord cursed them with a swarm of deadly serpents, and after survivors confessed their sins, Moses interceded on their behalf to God and was instructed by the Him to form a bronze serpent, put it on a staff so that whoever looked upon it would be saved.

BTW, thousands of years later Jesus quoted that passage to explain that it was meant a precursor to show in advance His work of salvation from hell to all sinners who look upon Him. In this quote below, Jesus also explained why God uses earthly examples to express spiritual realities (the phrase "Son of Man" is a reference to Jesus Himself):

~~~~~
John 3:12-16
"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
~~~~~

Going back to the bronze serpent, note that the bible shows that the Jews kept it for about 500 years after it served its specific purpose in the wilderness. Not only did they keep it, but some started worshipping it! It took a righteous king of Israel (Hezekiah in 2 Kings 18:4) to destroy it out of disgust at that time because it took people's eyes off of God who was the real power behind salvation in the wilderness long before.

The sin for that kind of act is idolatry, and if people were so easily led to worship a bronze serpent, how would people around the world, even today, respond if there were authentic, original tablets and scrolls of God's word sitting somewhere? They would worship the created instead of the Creator. They would make the physical texts an idol instead of recognizing that the Lord wants us to respond to His words inside of the physical texts.

The conflict shown in the plot of the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark would play itself out in some form where even more world battles would be waged over who can rightfully possess the "real" bible and who could not (despite it being meant for everyone). Nope... it's best that we have to "settle" for copies of the word of God.

However, that brings up a different issue to be addressed. While the original writings by the Holy Spirit through a number of chosen writers is absolutely perfect and without error, that cannot be said about any copies that were written or any translations of those copies into other languages like English (the original text was written in Hebrew in the Old Testament, and in Greek and Aramaic in the New Testament).

Human error is one issue that was introduced when making copies, and human corruption was introduced in some versions when people intentionally try to fix/change what was originally written to suit their own purposes (not God's purpose). So to answer your question about different people's interpretation of the scriptures, discovering anyone with foul motives when they intentionally re-write, misquote or misinterpret the bible can be determined by simply referring to the bible itself.

Those with bad intent will always come in conflict with the word of God itself, which is why it is easy to dismiss cults that claim to be formed from the verses in the bible. The Holy Spirit is the ultimate decider, and made sure that the bible dfends itslef from the lies and deceptions of those who actually hate God despite what they claim.

The good news is that even with occasional typos or copying mistakes a number of versions are extremely faithful to the earliest copies in existence. For many centuries the oldest copies of the bible dated back to about a thousand years after Jesus died. Then in the middle of the last century, a major discovery of the "Dead Sea scrolls" were found in a cave, which contained even earlier copies of the Old Testament that dated a few hundred years before Jesus was born. After comparisons were made, people were encouraged to see that the source manuscripts that had been used to that point were extremely accurate to the newly found copies, showing how much painstaking effort was used over the years by the early copiers to be accurate.

I set out a number of years ago to find out which versions are the most accurate English translations and after some time I've settled on the two I mentioned above. Again, that does not mean that all the rest are worthless (except for those intentionally changing what God wrote). For a long time the Lord made sure that the King James version of the bible, which became mega-popular as an English translation, served His purpose even though a number of copy mistakes and typos are in it (the New King James version cleans a lot of that up and also uses modern words instead of "thee and thou", etc.).

The important thing above all else is to read what God has to say. Open the bible and just start reading it. The Holy Spirit will then help you see what God is trying to say if you just allow Him to do so:

~~~~~
Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with Me."

James 4:8
"Draw near to God and He will draw near to you."
~~~~~

As I explained in an earlier post: "Spiritually speaking, the bible teaches that once we are saved the Lord dines on the "fruit" that our lives produces (kindness, self control from sin, love, joy, etc. from Galatians 5 and elsewhere), and that the born-again Christian dines on His every word (Matthew 4:4)."

 

[arredondo]

Dude, You are trying to use words taken out of the very book, written by man, that is being questioned, to try and convince people that it was written by the hand of god. Oh wait.. you quoted, Inspired by god... as if that changes anything. Do you not comprehend the problem with that? Not only are you using the very book that is in question, to try and make your case, and answer questions, but you either didn't comprehend what I said, or you ignored it, because you are not posting the entire chapter which would put, those cherry picked words, into proper context. Anyone can pull a sentence or two from a book and say they mean XYZ.

So again if the bible was written by God thru the hand of man, then the bible is proof that God changes his mind. Why else would there be a need for a new testimate to be written which contradicts the old testimate? Oh wait, you said using quotes from the bible: "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness". Guess what, inspired, reproofing, for correction, doesn't mean god wrote it. You believe it means that man is/was inspired, from god, to "correct it", but that correction, could be just as wrong as the first man who originally was "inspired". If it truely is from god, it wouldn't be wrong to begin with.. Do you know how many fictional books are written, with people claiming that it was inspired by god? do you know that corrections are made to fictionious books all the time? How do you know that bible is correct now? if everything in the bible is indeed inspired from god? How do you know that the teaching currently in the bible won't be changed again down the road? How do you know that the bible is not fiction? Faith? Which was/is instilled by your parents/pastor/church.. I know, you will say you talk to god, like my mom says.. Yet, we have thousands of people in facilities because they hear voices and talk to them...

Which god did these people get inspired by anyhow when writting/correcting the bible anyhow? Since you believe everything in the bible, it shows that there is more than one god, as the bible says you must not warship any other god, some verions add: is named jealous, is a jealous god. (isn't jealousy considered a sin? yet god is a jealous god?) I know.. you are going to grab the bible, which by your own admittance is written by man, but inspired by god, to prove that all other gods are false gods, and probably say jealous doesn't mean jealous..

I guess my point is you are trying to use words quoted, from a book that many people believe is not factual or a work of fiction, as the proof to convice people that it's factual and not a work of fiction.

You admirably quote some of the scriptures I referenced, but seem to ignore the big picture answer that they convey: it is God Himself, through the Holy Spirit, that decides the final answer to most of your questions in your post. Whether one agrees or not is one thing, but it can't be any clearer than that. Your entire premise appears to be that there is something above God or other than Him that can validate what He had written... there isn't! The Lord is at the top of the food chain of anything and everything.

From the perspective of what He expresses in the bible, what He says goes so it doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you expect from expect from me or any other Christian to convince any of you that God is God. Only He can do that, and reading His bible is the most direct way you will come to the answers you seek.

Here's one example towards this perspective that is easy to understand. Obviously most of us are aware what the idea is behind the phrase "I swear to God..." that some people say from time to time. Something similar was common in courtrooms where people would be asked to "swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you God" with their hand on the bible.

I'm not saying anything about you personally believing any of that, but you understand the concept being expressed, right? The idea is to stake whatever truth is being sought for in a matter to a power higher than one's self. To an extent if you think about it, all of these requests for infallible proof about God is an expressed desire to find "truth" as backed up by the highest form of validation possible.

Guess what? In the bible God has also used this approach several times. Here's one example:

~~~~~
Hebrews 6:13-17
"For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, 'I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you'. And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath"
~~~~~

That passage points to Genesis 22:15-18 when God made those promises to Abraham. So according to what the Lord says in His bible, there is nothing higher than Him to swear by, so He swears by Himself to validate the truth in His promises. In the same way, there is no greater word of truth to validate the holy bible than the bible itself because it literally is God's word. It backs itself up because it is the highest form of truth there is.

If anything anyone in the world says (including me) that is in conflict with the bible, that's on them. In the last chapter of the bible (Revelation 22:18-19), a warning goes out to anyone who adds or takes away from His book with significant curses to come their way in eternity. So the perspective that there is a lot of confusion about this interpretation and that interpretation is invalid, according to the scriptures.

The Holy Spirit decides what is true and what is not, all of life's issues are resolved (directly or in principal) within the bible, and God backs Himself throughout the entire texts, and anyone who (intentionally) adds or takes away from what He expressed will be cursed.

Lastly, note that the bible STRONGLY advises us not to swear oaths to back up the truth of what we discuss down here on earth. The reason why is because even with good intentions, humans fail to live up to their sworn promises all the time, and God takes that VERY seriously:

~~~~~
James 5:12
"But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation."

Matthew 5:33
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’"
~~~~~

 

[Pohemi]

More of the same nonsensical and delusional claims and "facts". Shocker.

Once again...


BTW @arredondo nobody here is impressed by your scripture knowledge. You look like a fool the way you keep spouting them out like they prove something.

 

[APU_Fusion]

You admirably quote some of the scriptures I referenced, but seem to ignore the big picture answer that they convey: it is God Himself, through the Holy Spirit, that decides the final answer to most of your questions in your post. Whether one agrees or not is one thing, but it can't be any clearer than that. Your entire premise appears to be that there is something above God or other than Him that can validate what He had written... there isn't! The Lord is at the top of the food chain of anything and everything.

From the perspective of what He expresses in the bible, what He says goes so it doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you expect from expect from me or any other Christian to convince any of you that God is God. Only He can do that, and reading His bible is the most direct way you will come to the answers you seek.

Here's one example towards this perspective that is easy to understand. Obviously most of us are aware what the idea is behind the phrase "I swear to God..." that some people say from time to time. Something similar was common in courtrooms where people would be asked to "swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you God" with their hand on the bible.

I'm not saying anything about you personally believing any of that, but you understand the concept being expressed, right? The idea is to stake whatever truth is being sought for in a matter to a power higher than one's self. To an extent if you think about it, all of these requests for infallible proof about God is an expressed desire to find "truth" as backed up by the highest form of validation possible.

Guess what? In the bible God has also used this approach several times. Here's one example:

~~~~~
Hebrews 6:13-17
"For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, 'I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you'. And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath"
~~~~~

That passage points to Genesis 22:15-18 when God made those promises to Abraham. So according to what the Lord says in His bible, there is nothing higher than Him to swear by, so He swears by Himself to validate the truth in His promises. In the same way, there is no greater word of truth to validate the holy bible than the bible itself because it literally is God's word. It backs itself up because it is the highest form of truth there is.

If anything anyone in the world says (including me) that is in conflict with the bible, that's on them. In the last chapter of the bible (Revelation 22:18-19), a warning goes out to anyone who adds or takes away from His book with significant curses to come their way in eternity. So the perspective that there is a lot of confusion about this interpretation and that interpretation is invalid, according to the scriptures.

The Holy Spirit decides what is true and what is not, all of life's issues are resolved (directly or in principal) within the bible, and God backs Himself throughout the entire texts, and anyone who (intentionally) adds or takes away from what He expressed will be cursed.

Lastly, note that the bible STRONGLY advises us not to swear oaths to back up the truth of what we discuss down here on earth. The reason why is because even with good intentions, humans fail to live up to their sworn promises all the time, and God takes that VERY seriously:

~~~~~
James 5:12
"But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation."

Matthew 5:33
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’"
~~~~~

Still no objective proof. Circular reasoning. End of thread.

 

[Muse]

God is more pissed than you can imagine:

The Wrath of the Lion is the Wisdom of God. - William Blake

 

[Stokely]

Been in these types of discussions before. Evolution vs creationism etc. End of the day, you either believe in God or you don't, and there isn't any reconciling the two. You have faith, or you don't. Doesn't mean you can't get along with people who believe if you don't or vice versa, but you aren't going to make those two world views line up...

Personally as long as religious types keep their beliefs to themselves and don't bother others (or the secular government) with them, hey live and let live. That is apparently far too much to ask.

 

[Muse]

Been in these types of discussions before. Evolution vs creationism etc. End of the day, you either believe in God or you don't, and there isn't any reconciling the two. You have faith, or you don't. Doesn't mean you can't get along with people who believe if you don't or vice versa, but you aren't going to make those two world views line up...

Personally as long as religious types keep their beliefs to themselves and don't bother others (or the secular government) with them, hey live and let live. That is apparently far too much to ask.

Human spirituality is extremely varied. Blake's imaginative creations often contain imagery that borrowed from religion but he basically detested organized religion, something he made very very plain. He saw the divine in human form and therefore as part of being human. He was brilliant in depicting this in his work in original, exceptional ways.

Here's a short essay on the subject:

William Blake's picture of God | Mark Vernon

Mark Vernon: The muscular old man with compasses often taken to be Blake's God is actually meant to be everything God is not

www.theguardian.com

 

[APU_Fusion]

Been in these types of discussions before. Evolution vs creationism etc. End of the day, you either believe in God or you don't, and there isn't any reconciling the two. You have faith, or you don't. Doesn't mean you can't get along with people who believe if you don't or vice versa, but you aren't going to make those two world views line up...

Personally as long as religious types keep their beliefs to themselves and don't bother others (or the secular government) with them, hey live and let live. That is apparently far too much to ask.

I agree. I believe in God. I, however, know I have no objective proof of God and will never impose my belief on anyone else. To do so is the height of hubris.

 

[Stokely]

Many (most?) religions tell their believers that you are supposed to spread the word. The ones I was a part of definitely did.

At face value, it was to "save" those you were reaching, but it's hard to deny that $$$ comes into play. Churches can't survive without new blood to put money in the coffers.

Whatever the reason, as long as they try to put faith into government and onto other people just trying to live their fucking lives I'll oppose them tooth and nail as the villains in the story.

 

[Moonbeam]

..