Is god pissed?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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But it IS what YOU think, NOT what "God" said. Just like your OP, you continue passing off your beliefs and faith as word-of-God proofed by a book that was not written by God, despite your many delusions.

Tou do not know that "God" said anything at all, much less attributing specific quotes to him.

You are a blasphemer, and you do not speak for a deity. I doubt you'll get that through your thick skull, though.

I wrote a book that says you are a gullible fool for believing anything in the bible. But really it was just God writing it through me, so it must be true, right? Right??

Even when debating religious faith, you need at least a sliver of logic. You haven't a shred of it.



Someone said it already, but yeah it was Carlin.
What you are describing about him I call a near universal trait. He has made unconscious assumptions that the Bible is true and that it demonstrates that internally. When you say he knows nothing about God, I agree. But I would add that you and I know nothing about anything. I object, therefore, to your charge of blasphemy. Do you know he is or is he just consistent with your referencing yourself as the source of that truth you believe. You sound like a believer to me.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
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Bible this, Quran that.

Been more killing on this earth over this so called invisble god than everything else combined.

And these so called book of religion are books of enslavement.
Quite simply.. don't obey the law.. go to jail.
For the stupid.. don't obey the bible/ quran.. go to hell!
Isn't that because religion is a subset of believers, people whose ego identity, some external ism they are members of that confers on them some socially accepted form of greatness? Are there not endless numbers of these identities that function to do this so the question should be, why do we have them, need them, and belong to them in the billions? I would suggest that all belief, no matter what it is in, is there as a form of self flattery and that the motivation driving the desire to join is the result of a need to feel self important because the hidden face of that is self hate. We need membership, belief in isms because at a young age we were made to conform to the ones we were surrounded by that our guardians and parents belonged to.

Every culture is different because what one has to believe in any of them is different due to time place and circumstances created by the passage of time, just like language. We speak different our past conditionings as we speak different languages. We are all different forms of believers, aren't we?

But is it possible that across time and space there is an experience of some kind that people have where they
awaken from this dream? What is a person if it is possible to transcend ego identity and be who you were born as? Is there a human being who has seen past ego identification? Is there a way to know? If there is a thing sometimes called awakening, how would sleepers hear of it or take it seriously?
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
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You admirably quote some of the scriptures I referenced, but seem to ignore the big picture answer that they convey: it is God Himself, through the Holy Spirit, that decides the final answer to most of your questions in your post. Whether one agrees or not is one thing, but it can't be any clearer than that. Your entire premise appears to be that there is something above God or other than Him that can validate what He had written... there isn't! The Lord is at the top of the food chain of anything and everything.

From the perspective of what He expresses in the bible, what He says goes so it doesn't matter what mental gymnastics you expect from expect from me or any other Christian to convince any of you that God is God. Only He can do that, and reading His bible is the most direct way you will come to the answers you seek.

Here's one example towards this perspective that is easy to understand. Obviously most of us are aware what the idea is behind the phrase "I swear to God..." that some people say from time to time. Something similar was common in courtrooms where people would be asked to "swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you God" with their hand on the bible.

I'm not saying anything about you personally believing any of that, but you understand the concept being expressed, right? The idea is to stake whatever truth is being sought for in a matter to a power higher than one's self. To an extent if you think about it, all of these requests for infallible proof about God is an expressed desire to find "truth" as backed up by the highest form of validation possible.

Guess what? In the bible God has also used this approach several times. Here's one example:

~~~~~
Hebrews 6:13-17
"For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, 'I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you'. And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath"
~~~~~

That passage points to Genesis 22:15-18 when God made those promises to Abraham. So according to what the Lord says in His bible, there is nothing higher than Him to swear by, so He swears by Himself to validate the truth in His promises. In the same way, there is no greater word of truth to validate the holy bible than the bible itself because it literally is God's word. It backs itself up because it is the highest form of truth there is.

If anything anyone in the world says (including me) that is in conflict with the bible, that's on them. In the last chapter of the bible (Revelation 22:18-19), a warning goes out to anyone who adds or takes away from His book with significant curses to come their way in eternity. So the perspective that there is a lot of confusion about this interpretation and that interpretation is invalid, according to the scriptures.

The Holy Spirit decides what is true and what is not, all of life's issues are resolved (directly or in principal) within the bible, and God backs Himself throughout the entire texts, and anyone who (intentionally) adds or takes away from what He expressed will be cursed.

Lastly, note that the bible STRONGLY advises us not to swear oaths to back up the truth of what we discuss down here on earth. The reason why is because even with good intentions, humans fail to live up to their sworn promises all the time, and God takes that VERY seriously:

~~~~~
James 5:12
"But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation."

Matthew 5:33
“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’"
~~~~~
What he says goes? You mean what the book (bible), that was written by sinners (man), says? Your argument is the bible is the truth, because the bible says it is. Is it possible you feel like you are expected to do mental gymnastics, because down deep, you now that mental gymnastics is what is required, for that circular belief?

Basically this is your circular argument
1) The bible, written by sinners (man), is the word of god. The bible is truth, because the bible, written by sinners (man), say so. (if you believe that the bible, is the truth, because the bible tells you so, go straight to #3)
2) if you don't believe the bible is the word of god, and because god is the only one who can make you believe, per the bible, written by sinners, you must go back to #1. (repeat as many times necessary until you believe what the bible says is truth, because the bible tells you its truth).
3) Congradulations, you are now a believer. You have completed your mental gymnastics and believe that the text in the bible, is the truth, because the text in the bible tells you so.

short answer: It's "trust me bro, I am the truth because I told you I am the truth, I am the bible"
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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What he says goes? You mean what the book (bible), that was written by sinners (man), says? Your argument is the bible is the truth, because the bible says it is. Is it possible you feel like you are expected to do mental gymnastics, because down deep, you now that mental gymnastics is what is required, for that circular belief?

Basically this is your circular argument
1) The bible, written by sinners (man), is the word of god. The bible is truth, because the bible, written by sinners (man), say so. (if you believe that the bible, is the truth, because the bible tells you so, go straight to #3)
2) if you don't believe the bible is the word of god, and because god is the only one who can make you believe, per the bible, written by sinners, you must go back to #1. (repeat as many times necessary until you believe what the bible says is truth, because the bible tells you its truth).
3) Congradulations, you are now a believer. You have completed your mental gymnastics and believe that the text in the bible, is the truth, because the text in the bible tells you so.

short answer: It's "trust me bro, I am the truth because I told you I am the truth, I am the bible"
So he should believe you instead of the Bible. How do you know the Bible was written by sinners. What tells you those men were sinners. You must be a Christian who buys all that nonsense written in the Bible. If you're going to buy that sin nonsense maybe you should also buy into ‘judge not that ye not be judged’.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
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126
In my opinion the reason there are as many atheists as there are in our so called Christian nation is the sane reason I became one. Christianity makes you feel like a piece of shit because it is too hard.

Jesus was probably my first idol, someone for whom I had profound respect and could partially sympathize with. He was just so much better than most people, unselfishly fearless in the face of death. He died so I could be saved, forgiven, all I had to do was be like him and turn the other cheek.

Seriously, turn the other cheek? Are you kidding me? Sorry, I can’t walk that path and none of the Christians I saw in those days could either.

And owing to the merciless honesty by which I appraised if I was honestly able to forgive, and seeing I could not, I think I killed my faith just to free myself from insufferable guilt, and openly rebelled against a faith that had so guilt tripped me.

I can’t turn the other cheek. I am not going to allow some asshole to crucify me if I can help it I have too much experience not to know What happens to somebody who turns the other cheek in this world of consciousness savages.

Are there people who can. I believe there are but not many.

The problem, of course, is that the reason we can’t forgive but need to is that the hatred of others that is destroying our world all comes from having been taught to hate ourselves.

All the religions of the world designed to heal our pain are turned against us by vengeful con artists who hope to transfer their own misery over to the rest of us.

Do not be an atheist or a believer. Seek to restore the capacity for love and joy that is our birth right, our original being, our potential, the image we created God in as that is how the universe created us to be.

And be kind to yourself as best you can.
 

arredondo

Senior member
Sep 17, 2004
841
37
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<Part I of II>
Been in these types of discussions before. Evolution vs creationism etc. End of the day, you either believe in God or you don't, and there isn't any reconciling the two. You have faith, or you don't. Doesn't mean you can't get along with people who believe if you don't or vice versa, but you aren't going to make those two world views line up...
It's not as simple as you lay it out. Plenty of people, including dedicated atheists and adherents to pretty much all of the religions out there have come into a relationship with Jesus Christ before their lives ended. I literally know of three people of a particular religion for all their lives off the top of my head who have passed away, but got saved before they died, and I barely talked to them about the bible.

How did it happen? Through other sources and contacts and circumstances, they each personally heard the word of God and responded to it as I mentioned earlier (Romans 10:17). Once they accepted salvation, the Holy Spirit took care of it from there until they went to be with the Lord.

<Part II of II>
...Personally as long as religious types keep their beliefs to themselves and don't bother others (or the secular government) with them, hey live and let live. That is apparently far too much to ask.
The devil is in the details of your requests (pun intended). As you likely know, the bible shows that Jesus Christ lived many years ago on earth, led His ministry for three years with twelve disciples, was crucified and rose again three days later before ultimately ascending into heaven. Before He ascended, this was literally His final and direct command to His followers:

~~~~~
Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
~~~~~

Since that command is the complete opposite of Christians "keeping their belief to themselves", it simply cannot happen as long as one of us still walks the earth. We have to share the good news, as it is called, or we would be defying the Lord.

The concept of "live and let live" that you mention is incomplete, according to the word of God. Yes, there is a near infinite variety of ways that people play out their existence in this world throughout the ages, but the fact death comes to everyone is what we all have in common. Then what? The bible answers that question with a simple, sobering answer:

~~~~~
Hebrews 9:27b
"...it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment"
~~~~~

Judgment for sinners = eternity in the pits of hell. Sadly, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). So how can that possibly be "good news" that I mentioned above? It is because Jesus also makes this promise about the judgment for those who die with Him in their hearts:

~~~~~
John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
~~~~~

I once heard it phrased like this:

A terminally ill patient (who was in this condition due to his poor life choices) was facing imminent death and a cure was sitting on a table near to him at arm's reach. Days, weeks, years, even decades go by, but he refuses to take the cure. Eventually, he succumbs to his terminal illness and has only himself to blame for the outcome because of his free will.

No one forced him to refuse the cure just as no one forced him to take it. That's why Christians following God's will would never try to force the faith on someone, especially since it is only real when it comes from one's heart. The Holy Spirit, however, will continue to use them and many, many other avenues to encourage a sinner to believe and repent before it is all said and done.
 
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arredondo

Senior member
Sep 17, 2004
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<Part I of III>
In my opinion the reason there are as many atheists as there are in our so called Christian nation is the sane reason I became one. Christianity makes you feel like a piece of shit because it is too hard.
What you describe is not Christianity, though. What you describe is every, single religion on the face of the earth when Christianity is solely about one thing and one thing only: a relationship with Jesus Christ.

In so many words, you are (accurately) saying that following a list of dos's and don't's in order to please some cosmic force achieve some form of nirvana or blissful utopia is too hard. I agree with you, and that's why I don't follow any religion. I could never measure up.

According to the bible, the Father in heaven of every human is holy and perfectly righteous. That is to say, He is 100% set apart from all sin and cannot even have sin in His presence Adam and Eve spiritually died the moment they committed the first sin, and like a disease or an infection, sin spread to all their descendants, and we all have broken His laws.

This is why separation from Him is literally "death" in the spiritual sense. After this life, hell is the only place where people infected by their own, unaddressed sins can continue to be separate from Him for eternity, because even ONE sin (a conscience choice to defy their Creator's will in word, deed, or extensive thought) keeps them from their Father's presence.

~~~~~
James 2:10
"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it."
~~~~~

One might ask, then what about the ten commandments and all those rules in the bible? Aren't you supposed to follow them to get right with God according to Christianity? A pastor I heard illustrated it this way... if you were to go into a restroom, the mirror you approach is like the commandments of God. If you were honest as you looked at your reflection, you would have to admit you are completely filthy because of your sins.

The "law", as it is called in the bible, cannot save you. It can only condemn you. The mirror bleakly tells you that you have no hope because of the sinner that you already are because the only response from God towards sin (expressed in Genesis 2:15-17) is death, or separation from the Lord.

Have you ever told a lie? Then you are a liar. Have you ever taken anything you knew was not yours? Then you're a thief. Have you ever lusted over someone not your spouse? Then you're a fornicator/adulterer. It's all as black and white as you can get, and no amount of good deeds can remove the stain of even one sin in God's eyes.

Religion is defined as the lifelong pursuit of following the law, but with Christianity, it is a hopeless cause to do so. The apostle Paul labels this attempt to please God by following (in this example) the ten commandments that were "letters" written in stone and being a good person in order to get to heaven the "ministry of death" and "condemnation":

~~~~~
2 Corinthians 3:7-9:
"But if the ministry of death, in letters having been engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, which was being brought to an end, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be even more in glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory."
~~~~~

That is why the first greatest event in human history is when Jesus chose to die on the cross for your sins and mine to keep us out of hell as punishment for defying God with our sins. The price is paid, so no one has to work oh-so-very-hard at being "good" to please the Father in order to one day be back in His presence. The second greatest event is the resurrection of Jesus, who conquered death so that heaven could open up for anyone who is with Him.

This shows how the pastor's follow up analogy in the restroom makes sense. If the law in the bible is a mirror that only condemns you, then hope is not lost because you can turn on the faucet and become clean again with the water that pours out. The bible shares this second point in many ways, including this passage encouraging husbands to love their wives like Jesus loves the church, in part, for this reason:

~~~~~
Ephesians 5:26
"...that <the Lord> might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word"
~~~~~

The living water is one of many nicknames for Jesus, and the gospel of His sacrifice and glory on our behalf as explained in the word of God is what washes away all of our sins.

<Part II of III>
Jesus was probably my first idol, someone for whom I had profound respect and could partially sympathize with. He was just so much better than most people, unselfishly fearless in the face of death.
Ultimately, Jesus didn't come to be a role model. If that were the case, we could simply copy his works of righteousness (being a good person) and make it into eternal life. As I explained in the bible references above, that's simply not possible. Mimicking Jesus' actions by focusing on one's works is just another fruitless religion like all the others that do not mention Jesus at all. Consider this powerful verse:

~~~~~
Matthew 6:33
"Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."
~~~~~

To me, this scripture is the ultimate equation that solves the mystery of what everyone wants deep down in the end...
Do this + Do That = Receive Every Good Thing Life Has to Offer

Simply put, "all these things will be added to you" represents what exactly? Money, for example? One doesn't ultimately want money, for example, but wants what money can buy. It's a means to an end. Does it buy happiness? Sure, but happiness comes and goes with the associated emotions. The bible expresses that in a life fulfilled by the Lord, you can have joy", which transcends circumstances and material items; it can exist in your heart through good times and bad because it is based on a real relationship with God.

~~~~~
Nehemiah 8:10b
"..the joy of the Lord is your strength."

John 16:22 <Jesus says this the night before He is crucified>
"So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you."
~~~~~

Continuing on, do people want good relationships with others? Sure, but the love and peace offered to those saved from their sins that is described by the scriptures is deeper than any general definition of these terms. The list of "all these things" goes on and on. The key point being made here is how does the world, either through religion or atheistic humanism, obtain "these things"? By being a good person, of course.

Even fake Christianity in its many, many forms pursues this, but the equation expressed in Matthew 6:33 does not simply say, "Seek His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you". You cannot simply copy Jesus and expect all to be well because your sin (and mine) separates us from God as explained above. No, a person has to follow the order of operations for the equation to work (according to the bible), and it clearly says: "Seek first the kingdom of God...".

What is the kingdom of God? Heaven, of course. You have to get saved first before you can expect to then seek to do Jesus righteousness, an only then can all these things be added to you (including eternal life!). Not just any righteousness from any source, BTW. It clearly says to seek His righteousness, speaking of the Christ. This is just another reason why all religions (including fake "Christian" religions based on works) are in conflict with the bible.

Jesus is not an idol, a buddy, or an inspirational figure. He never put Himself out there to fill any of these roles. He offers to be your Lord and Savior, period. It's up to you to accept Him on His terms (as expressed in the bible) or not.

<Part III of III>
...He died so I could be saved, forgiven, all I had to do was be like him and turn the other cheek.

Seriously, turn the other cheek? Are you kidding me? Sorry, I can’t walk that path and none of the Christians I saw in those days could either.

And owing to the merciless honesty by which I appraised if I was honestly able to forgive, and seeing I could not, I think I killed my faith just to free myself from insufferable guilt, and openly rebelled against a faith that had so guilt tripped me.

I can’t turn the other cheek. I am not going to allow some asshole to crucify me if I can help it I have too much experience not to know What happens to somebody who turns the other cheek in this world of consciousness savages.

Are there people who can. I believe there are but not many.

The problem, of course, is that the reason we can’t forgive but need to is that the hatred of others that is destroying our world all comes from having been taught to hate ourselves.

All the religions of the world designed to heal our pain are turned against us by vengeful con artists who hope to transfer their own misery over to the rest of us.

Do not be an atheist or a believer. Seek to restore the capacity for love and joy that is our birth right, our original being, our potential, the image we created God in as that is how the universe created us to be.

And be kind to yourself as best you can.
Part I of this write up to you above puts your comments here in context with the scriptures in part since it points out that you, as an unsaved person, are not expected to live out the Christian life to please God and make it into heaven. Your good deeds, like forgiveness of others, can't undo all of the bad deeds you committed, and those sins on your life's account are what separates you from God the Father forever.

However, what about the genuine Christian? Think about it this way... the term "Christian" means Christ-like. So a person who is saved is obviously being molded into just that, to become like Jesus. According to the bible, that transformation, which begins the moment they accept His offer of forgiveness for their sins, is not complete until they go to be with the Lord after this life. At that point, they have bee "glorified", and all temptations of sin is forever removed from their presence for eternity.

Down here on earth, all true Christians are not yet glorified. Instead, they are being "sanctified" daily which means they are becoming like Jesus in their hearts. Yes, they may still sin and struggle with all types of things like anyone else, but the difference from the unsaved is that A} no sin "sticks" to their account for judgment, and B} the Holy Spirit works in their hearts to help them grow to be more and more Christ-like. Ask away for biblical examples for these comments.

What I really wanted to point out from the word of God about being Christ-like is this verse which is a simple and straight forward of what it means to be a Christian as any other passage. It gives us a birds-eye view of who Jesus is (besides revealing that He is also the fullness of the word of God), and naturally points to what each Christian should be as well:

~~~~~
John 1:14
"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
~~~~~

Jesus is full of grace and truth. Not just grace, which includes bestowing blessings and mercy and love over others. Not just truth, which includes following the commandments of right and wrong, embracing good and rejecting evil in every word, thought and deed. He exercises grace and truth, and the verse states that He is full of them both (not simply 50/50!). Every Christian through the process of sanctification is to pursue becoming like their Savior in grace and truth.

How does that happen? You correctly point out that you cannot forgive people in the manner that God expects, according to the bible. Guess what? Neither can I nor any other Christian that has ever lived if we try to do so on our own internal strength. A saved person instead is expected to allow the Holy Spirit to perform great works like these through us. We become equipped to be filled with grace and truth (after becoming saved) by reading the bible, praying to God, and going to church, etc. It is no shock to you to hear these activities are promoted thoroughly in the bible (ask for scriptures if you want proof).

So in many ways, I am like you in that I cannot imagine forgiving someone if they did evil things to me or my loved ones. However, God promises to prepare us and equip us for anything we may face in life if we simply allow Him to do so:

~~~~~
2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

1 Corinthians 10:13b
"...but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Romans 8:37
"...in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us."
~~~~~

Do you see? According to the bible, it is the Lord who prepares a willing person for what they may face in this life. You would not have to face anything alone. There are significant episodes in my own life, say, over the past ten years alone, that I would have never seen myself get through without Jesus in my life. Not just the circumstances around me, but what He has been able to do inside of me. I am not the same person (family and friends would agree), and I mean that in a good way.

Last comment here on the topic of forgiveness. You stated this in the last section from your post that I quoted
I can’t turn the other cheek. I am not going to allow some asshole to crucify me if I can help it I have too much experience not to know What happens to somebody who turns the other cheek in this world of consciousness savages.

Are there people who can. I believe there are but not many.

Yes, there are people who can forgive the wickedness of other people. Christians who serve the Lord with their hearts because Jesus once commanded His followers:

~~~~~
Matthew 5:43-44
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
~~~~~

The bible has plenty of examples of forgiving enemies besides Jesus Himself (including Stephen, Joseph, Moses, Paul, etc.), but since you asked, please take a look at this modern example in the video below.

A white, female officer named Amber Guyger was on trial for bursting into an apartment before shooting and killing a Christian black man named Botham Jean. She received a guilty verdict for murder, and Botham's younger brother was allowed to take the stand to speak on his brother's behalf during the sentencing phase.

<Brief video clip>

Despite all the social elements that are common today in building up rage from various sides after an incident like this (racial tension, police aggressiveness, the use of guns, etc.), it is the love of Jesus in an individual like this that rises far above the fray in ways that defy comprehension.
 
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Leeea

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Apr 3, 2020
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Do not be an atheist or a believer. Seek to restore the capacity for love and joy that is our birth right, our original being, our potential, the image we created God in as that is how the universe created us to be.

And be kind to yourself as best you can.
There are many paths to God. See you in heaven.

Whether or not a person chooses to believe in God or not is ultimately irrelevant. Atheism is a path to God like any other. Many atheists live more holy lives then the so called faithful.

As for the whole turn the other cheek thing, there are so many ways to interpret that who knows. One of the books even has the sermon on the mount preached on a plain.


note: I am officially a Christian, I have documentation to prove it.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
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What you describe is not Christianity, though. .............................................
I had no one to guide me as a child, nobody of deep understanding. My first contact with wisdom came from sources like Socrates and Einstein. My first exposure to a real teaching came form learning about Zen. Later I found a teacher who practiced psychoanalysis. He discovered others he thought were Knowers like Gurdjieff and later Sufism which I studied for a time.

As a child I believed in God and that he would set everything right, that after death everything would be fixed, the evil would reap what they had sown and those who suffered unjustly would find eternal life but because my Mother told me to be honest and I loved science, everything fell away because ir felt dishonest to believe without proof. I tried my best to prove that there is an absolute good but I failed. Nothing in the West that I read looking for answers worked. My world went black. As a result of reading Zen I went through a period of intense introspection as to what those folk were saying as they seemed not to need a believ in God but did not suffer like I did. I could not understand how that was possible but it did provide me with the idea they weren't kidding or faking it, that their enlightenment thingi might be real. The shock of Zen, the existence of a vastly different incomprehensible point of view rearranged my mind enough to have a sudden insight that answered all my questions. In a flash I ceased to suffer. I think there are a thousand paths and they all lead nowhere unless the one you are on has heart. You will find God in no other place. The kingdom of heaven is within.

I want to acknowledge the effort you put into your post to me and the well wishes behind it. My experience was that guilt is a process of belief in things things like good and evil, virtue and sin. I became a non believer while retaining attachment to belief. I think sin is what happens when people believe they are sinful but want to deny it. I learned all the habits of denial. I am trying to unlearn them by not feeding the beast. My only source of motivation for doing so is just because I decided I want to. Sometimes I forget that too.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I could not understand how that was possible but it did provide me with the idea they weren't kidding or faking it, that their enlightenment thingi might be real.
I did not have to give up my religious beliefs to find enlightenment. I just learned to recognize the liars and hypocrites who show off their religious fervour only to get brownie points from gullible religious people but are nothing more than despicable scum at their core. They are the reason why religion gets a bad rap. A truly religious person will not hurt anyone unless it's for self defense and even then, it might be hurting enough to cause the attacker to flee, rather than put them out of their contemptible misery.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,797
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Even fake Christianity in its many, many forms pursues this, but the equation expressed in Matthew 6:33 does not simply say, "Seek His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you". You cannot simply copy Jesus and expect all to be well because your sin (and mine) separates us from God as explained above. No, a person has to follow the order of operations for the equation to work (according to the bible), and it clearly says: "Seek first the kingdom of God...".

oh, oh! Your a Christian and the others are fake Christians! And you are the person who gets to decide!


It seems according to Arredondo, Jesus made his sacrifice for people only Arredondo approves of!



I wonder how Jesus feels about this turn of events?
 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,371
2,048
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This thread needs to die but will only be resurrected three days later by the next religious zealot.

Arredondo is exactly the false prophet warned about. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing
 
Reactions: Pohemi

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,797
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A fictional concept from a fictional book. Let me put this as nicely as I can.
STFU
Fair. But I feel that should try and salvage faith after Arredondo shared his perspective.


Firstly, mostly fictional works still have value in expressing perspectives.

Secondly, here is a different perspective of what said book says:
Coming out of the Jesuit scholarship, there is the theology that Jesus sacrificed in Solidarity of All. Not because Sin is evil, good, filthy, clean, but because it is the nature of creation.


Heaven = being one with God
"Hell" = not being one with God


The only way a person can not be one with God is if they make themselves incompatible. At which point they are in "Hell" until they make themselves compatible and become one with God.

In other words, a person makes their own Hell. Both in this world and the next.

It matters not if they are alive or dead. They can also seek redemption, compatibility with God, regardless of if they are alive or dead.


Think about it, how many people do you know have made their own little hell?

case example:
Arredondo:
This person appears to actually believe we are all going to burn and truly be distressed by this.
This person has created their own hell, and put themselves into it.
Imagine if this person believes this about their love ones?
The upside? They have all of eternity to embrace God. We should not intentionally leave them in pain, but we should not live in terror for their eternal soul either.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,753
9,704
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Self referential bullshit is self referential bullshit.

Good grief the intellectual spinning it takes to believe a book is the word of god because it says it’s the word of god.

So given all the other writings that claim to be from god based on what evidence did you determine the Bible is the correct one? Can you respond with evidence that is not a Bible verse?
I feel it's apt to post a bit of Tim Minchin here!

 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,797
5,558
136
This thread needs to die but will only be resurrected three days later by the next religious zealot.

Arredondo is exactly the false prophet warned about. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing
Leeea's eyes light up with Holy vengeance as she pulls out her Holy weapon of Cleansing and Purifies all that befouls the Holy Porcelain Throne of the Water Closet! None shall survive the Extermination!
 
Reactions: Pohemi

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,797
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So given all the other writings that claim to be from god based on what evidence did you determine the Bible is the correct one? Can you respond with evidence that is not a Bible verse?
They all have Value.


The bible did not come out of no where. It was built on what came prior. The same is true of the other great works. Even with great works that came from cultures that never had contact with each other have striking similarities. Same sky, same species, same God, different perspective.


A person cannot seriously study theology and ignore the great works. The other perspectives.


It is the Catholic university system that has pushed this the farthest, although they are hardly the only.
 
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