You deny the godliness of the band Aqua‽We were talking about God's, not bubblegum pop band.
After your general illustration, you imply that "my" bridge to get people to follow "my" path is to yell at them that everyone else's path is phony and that "mine" is better. I put those pronouns in quotes to emphasize that your claim is completely false in that my posts are about what I have to say. What I say doesn't matter. You cannot claim the path described in my post is "mine" when Jesus said this:It is fine with me that you believe all that. It is what you believe that Christianity teaches. All the things you say here I understand to be true but I do not understand them the same way that you do. You take them far more literally than I do in my opinion. However I am not interested in explaining to you how my interpretation of their meaning is more or less in line with their true meaning because I see them from a perspective that I don't think you feel any need for. You have your answers and if they take you across a bridge to an other reality, that would be wonderful for me.
There was a time, a place, and a people who lived a long time ago in the Middle East for whom the conditions on the ground determined the nature of what sort of a bridge could be built. Many other bridged were created in other places. To cross a bridge to truth takes incredible dedication and focus. If you go the Christian path I am not going to be yelling at you that yours is a phony way or there's a better way over here. For you there is only one way because the way you are asks that you think that way.
I understand your concern. I used to fear doubt and hell. I know about loss separation, hell, and despair. Then I died and went to heaven. I couldn't save myself through faith.
If I were to talk about God the way you do, I would say he was nice enough to throw me a bone since I couldn't believe as a Christian do.
If Christianity is defined by what is written about Jesus Christ in God's bible, then it doesn't matter what I believe Christianity is (or you, or anyone else). The bible itself is the tie breaker in any and all arguments on this topic.I had provided a theological explanation that basically came down to:
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That literally has nothing to do with what Christianity is since not only is there no direct quotation of the bible to support it, the comments do not accurately reflect with specificity what the word of God says. So what is "my" counterpoint? The word of God (which means it is not actually "my" counterpoint but the Lord's):.
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Some people create their own hell.
Then put themselves into that hell.
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<Jesus> certainly is not the only path. Atheism can be another path if taken thoughtfully. Christianity can be a path to hell if taken wrongly, as Arredondo demonstrates.
This entire section is either directly anti-Christian or a gross distortion of it according to passages in the bible (which is where Christianity is defined and detailed). You are being dismissive of "people who believe other people are going to hell". Then it is easy to conclude why you are also so dismissive of Jesus Christ as well (the one from the bible, that is) since He is one of those who believes other people are going to hell. In fact, He believes it so much that it is the main reason why He came to earth to begin with... to keep you out of Hell by making it possible to deal with your sins and be restored with your Creator..
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Quite frequently, those are people who believe other people are going to hell. They sincerely believe people they love are going to burn for all eternity. This "revelation" has set their own mind on fire with distress. Emotions of stress, emotional burnout, hopelessness, anger, fear all burn their humanity, their soul away.
Jesus, provides a way for people to just let it all go, the anger, the hate, all of it, so they can escape their own hell. To forgive others, and most importantly, forgive themselves. To love again, both others and themselves. To find redemption in His saving grace.
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Still waiting for evidence these are the actual words of Jesus. Surely you have some outside of saying "its in the bible"If Christianity is defined by what is written about Jesus Christ in God's bible, then it doesn't matter what I believe Christianity is (or you, or anyone else). The bible itself is the tie breaker in any and all arguments on this topic.
I've backed up pretty much all of my statements here with the word of God. That includes many, many, many verses that define who Jesus Christ is and what He represents. The most common response from you and many others here is to counter it with your own unbiblical statements. I am not merely conveying my own opinion if I am agreeing with the bible as it is literally written well before I was even born.
People responding to these verses I brought over from His scriptures (like yourself) with unbiblical observations is actually where most of the opinions in this thread are coming from. Your recent post above is a perfect example. You responded to the verses I quoted with with anti-Christian "teachings" that (ironically) the actual bible warns the world about to avoid them:
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2 Peter 2:1b
"...there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."
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At most, my opinion here has been this: I believe what God says in His word and not the expressed perspectives of other people who conflict with the Lord by what they say instead. However, what the word of God says itself is not my opinion as I am accused of, but is simply a fact that "this is what the bible says". Believe in what it says or not... that's your free will. Just stop the ridiculous dodging exercise of trying to attribute what the word of God says to me as if I said it. That won't stick since I didn't write it.
Moving on, objectively speaking I am not about to debate whether what you claim in your post above is right or wrong as the correct world view of things (even if I personally don't believe it and vice versa). Instead, I am simply pointing out that what you wrote is not Christianity as it greatly diverges from what the bible actually says about Jesus Christ, hell, salvation, etc. In fact, defining God and what He says without using the word of God to do it is literally the oldest trick in the devil's playbook (Genesis 3:1-4). Let's take a closer look at what you wrote:
That literally has nothing to do with what Christianity is since not only is there no direct quotation of the bible to support it, the comments do not accurately reflect with specificity what the word of God says. So what is "my" counterpoint? The word of God (which means it is not actually "my" counterpoint but the Lord's):
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John 1:3
"All things came into being through <Jesus>, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
Matthew 25:41
Then <Jesus> will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels'
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It is completely clear between our two writeups on this point so far which one can accurately claim to describe a perspective of Christianity. Your words about people creating their own hell and putting themselves into it comes from you and other people with a similar thought. I am simply quoting what the bible actually says, and that exists whether I was born into this world to copy and paste the text or not.
Ultimately, your eternal destination to heaven or hell has zero to do with me. It's a deliberate misdirection on your part and that of many others here to point at me as if this is what "I" am saying. The actual truth is more difficult to handle for you and others expressing the same false claim: even if I never existed, the bible verses that I've posted still exist.
It is far easier to attack arredondo for what he (supposedly) said because directly attacking God for what He actually said is instinctively a tougher tactic to follow. It's obvious why that is. Objectively speaking, if what the bible says is true, then you are going to hell instead of heaven because of two reasons:
A} You have sinned against your Creator, which brings about the sentence of eternal death, and
B} You rejected God's only remedy for paying for the sins you committed, which is a relationship with Jesus Christ who volunteered to die in your place
Nothing else stated in this entire thread matters more than that. Many people throughout the ages try to deal with the ultimate truths of A} and B} by misdirecting the conversation to something -anything- other than looking in the mirror at their own culpability and the consequences that come with refusing the will of God in their sinful lives.
That's what's going on with your response, where the misdirection comes from inventing things God did not say in His bible as an attempted counter to what He actually did say (then blaming me for sharing what He said). So how can I claim A} and B} are integral to Christianity? The bible says it, that's how:
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Genesis 2:15-17
Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
James 2:10
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Anything that a person hears or reads from any source about why people go to hell, how to escape it, and "the way" one must accept as the only option to spend eternity in heaven that conflicts with these verses is flat out not true from a Christianity standpoint. According to me? No... according to the bible! The verses (and many more) are all there for you to read for yourself.
As I said, the misdirection arguments towards me personally are weak attempts to avoid what God Himself has said, but that tactic will not work on the day of judgment when one stands before Him for sentencing:
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Revelations 20:12-15
"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
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Which brings me to another section of your unbiblical post:
This entire section is either directly anti-Christian or a gross distortion of it according to passages in the bible (which is where Christianity is defined and detailed). You are being dismissive of "people who believe other people are going to hell". Then it is easy to conclude why you are also so dismissive of Jesus Christ as well (the one from the bible, that is) since He is one of those who believes other people are going to hell. In fact, He believes it so much that it is the main reason why He came to earth to begin with... to keep you out of Hell by making it possible to deal with your sins and be restored with your Creator.
Jesus either directly or indirectly referred to the destination of hell for sinners than almost any other topic in His direct quotes. I posted some before, but here are just a few:
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Matthew 13:42
"...and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Matthew 23:33
"Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"
Mark 9:43, 45 & 47
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.... and if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched... and if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."
Luke 10:15
"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to hell."
Luke 12:5
"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!"
Mark 12:40
"...who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation."
Luke 13:3
"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
John 5:29
"...and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."
John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
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Jesus did not come to provide a way for you to ignore the consequences of your sins which result in eternal damnation while you're still alive trying to be a "good" person to please the Lord. Instead, Jesus came to die for your sins in your place, and He is simply offering His free gift of salvation if you exercise your free will to accept Him in your life.
That is Christianity through faith in Him according to the bible, not according to me.
After your general illustration, you imply that "my" bridge to get people to follow "my" path is to yell at them that everyone else's path is phony and that "mine" is better. I put those pronouns in quotes to emphasize that your claim is completely false in that my posts are about what I have to say. What I say doesn't matter. You cannot claim the path described in my post is "mine" when Jesus said this:
If Christianity is a bridge or even the only bridge, I hope you cross. My experience says to me that your bridge was best suited for a long past time place and people and that the path is not well suited to the scientific mindset of today who can't wrap their heads around the fact that psychological truth can only be experienced internally.~~~~~
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
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That was expressed thousands of years before I was born by Jesus Christ. According to this verse from the bible, Jesus isn't "a" way, truth, and life. He is "the" way, truth, and life. According to the same verse, there aren't many paths to the Father; there is only one path - Jesus Christ. You don't have to believe Him (which leads to eternal damnation according to the scriptures), but it is factually incorrect to give me credit for copying and pasting what Jesus said Himself. This has nothing to do with me.
Then you go on to say that you couldn't save yourself through faith. The bible actually agrees with you, but goes on to explain why: it is because you continue to disobey the word of God as written in His bible:
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Romans 3:23
"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Galatians 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery <drug use>, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Romans 10:16-17
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
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So you either believe it or you don't when the bible says...
...you are a sinner,
...your sins separate you from a Holy God for eternity,
...by grace Jesus offers you a path away from of the pits hell (regardless of how good you think you are),
...faith in what Jesus did for you is required for salvation and life forever in heaven.
That's why you aren't saved. Creating a different version of His spiritual truths does not change one thing God actually says in His bible about how the afterlife actually plays itself out for you (and how it does not). Nothing I wrote above conflicts with the scriptures while pretty much everything you wrote above most certainly does. As for me personally, I've chosen to believe what God says.
yea, about that.I've backed up pretty much all of my statements here with the word of God.
No need to pretend to not know what I believe. You already know what my thoughts are on the bible and what it says about God as well as the lives of all if only because I've said it many times, including the last sentence in my post that you quoted: "As for me personally, I've chosen to believe what God says."Are you saying that you are not a Christian, that you don't believe in Jesus? How can you espouse a Christian faith without claiming it is what you believe. How can a belief not be yours if you believe it? And how can your following quotes not be more yelling about it?
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There are two main points you raise here: "The scientific mindset of today" and the idea of how "people don't much buy" religion today. They highlight the primary belief systems that people put their trust in when rejecting both God and what His holy bible says..
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If Christianity is a bridge or even the only bridge, I hope you cross. My experience says to me that your bridge was best suited for a long past time place and people and that the path is not well suited to the scientific mindset of today who can't wrap their heads around the fact that psychological truth can only be experienced internally.
Religious faith is a method, I think, designed to step over an issue that can't be avoided today by reference to a book of divine origin. People don't much buy that today.
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"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
This can also be said in my opinion based on my experience: "I was saved by grace the moment I realized I could not save myself. The gift I received was the simple certainty that love is real. All that had died came back to life. However lost you may think I am I am grateful for that.
What do I think about that supposed contradiction from the bible? Nothing, because as I've said many times, whatever my opinion is doesn't matter in the end. Instead, my reaction to pretty much anything as long as I'm alive is to simply ask this: what does the word of God have to say?yea, about that.
Romans 3:1-2:
What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?
Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
Galatians 6:15:
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.
Awkward. Written by "Paul" to. Double awkward. I even made sure to pick some books you were picking and choosing verses from to. Look, I can do it to!
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Are you seriously quoting a person pretending to be another person who claims to have seen Jesus 8 years after he died, and that Jesus made him an Apostle? And only he saw this? Never mind about Saint Matthias, guess he didn't count.
The Bible is perspectives of God. You cannot pick and choose the parts you like. It must be taken as a whole. It must be studied, the writers who wrote it, the context they wrote it in, why they wrote it, what their perspective was.
But your sitting here claiming "Word of God". Which just tells me your a moron. The Jewish tradition has never believed the old testament is the literal word of God, and no point in their history have they ever. But you do for some stupid reason.
Can't you just post one instead of thousands?What do I think about that supposed contradiction from the bible? Nothing, because as I've said many times, whatever my opinion is doesn't matter in the end. Instead, my reaction to pretty much anything as long as I'm alive is to simply ask this: what does the word of God have to say?
God does not always reveal to us all the specifics of what's behind the information He shared in the bible. For instance, Jesus once explained that no one knows, even He Himself, exactly when the Lord will return a second time, which will be to aggressively deal with a sinful world. Only the Father in heaven knows that:
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Matthew 24:36-37
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For just as the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be."
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However, to your point in the passages you quoted, the answer is clear and straight forward. Let's start with Romans 3:1-2, which the first few words alone indicate that this a continuation of a perspective that was expressed earlier: "What advantage, then, is there in...". See? Even though this chapter begins with these words, there is no doubt we are reading the middle of statement, not the beginning of a new one.
BTW, I should point out that the chapter and bible verse numbers dividing up passages like this one were added hundreds of years after the bible was originally written. As a result, there are multiple examples of issues like this where the divisions between them may cause one to scratch their heads. Moving on....
If the beginning of Chapter 3 is in the middle of an expressed thought, what happens if we simply go back to the end of Chapter 2? It is there that we read this:
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Romans 2:25-29
"For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
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This again is a continuation of a longer expressed point of view, but for the purposes of answering your accusation against the scriptures, it will suffice to begin here. The overall idea is this... there are two types of Jews, from God's perspective that the bible as a whole focuses on. There are the physical Jews and the spiritual Jews.
The physical Jews have from God a special covenant, which is an enduring, unbreakable ultimate promise. That was expressed to Abraham:
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Genesis 12:2-3
"And I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and so you shall be a blessing; and I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
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BTW, the ultimate blessing that was in Abraham which God promised to be given to "all the families of the earth" has already come true through the death, burial and resurrections of Jesus Christ for salvation of our sins. The Savior is a direct descendant of Abraham according to the bible (Matthew 1:1 and Galatians 3:16 and other verses). The covenant was officially enacted in a ceremony found in Genesis 15, and was reiterated to His descendants all throughout the scriptures, like it was here
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Deuteronomy 7:6-7
"For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples"
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So while the physical Jews were promised many, many specific blessings that only pertain to them throughout the Old Testament, know that each of those is an earthly blessing. That would be blessings of good health, earthly prosperity, protection from enemies, etc.
This is not unfair to the non-Jewish people (Gentiles) as some might think because it is not unlike a son in a family that is given special privileges by the parent in part because of the significant responsibilities that they are given to handle. It does not mean that the parent loves one child over the others; it's simply a matter of rewarding the added expectations place upon him by the parent.
So is true of God's covenant with the Jewish people descended from Abraham who not only were given the written word of God, they were tasked to share it with the entire world in their role as His priests:
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Exodus 19:5-6
""Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel.”
So Moses came and called the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which the LORD had commanded him. All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do!” And Moses brought back the words of the people to the LORD.
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As you can see, under the special status of physical Jews being God's "own possession" and fully benefitting from all the blessings set aside for them was conditional for keeping their promise made to Him, beginning with Abraham in Genesis 15 mentioned above, and continuing to the Jewish people as a whole who agreed to God's covenant for themselves at Mount Sanai just before Moses came down the mountain with the Lord's ten commandments of right and wrong in Exodus 19.
Sadly, the Jews started turning from God even before Moses came down with the ten commandments a few months after the ceremony described above when many of them started worshipping a golden calf as their savior and committing sinful acts with each other. The guilty were slain by Moses and the Levite tribe (Exodus 32). Over the centuries, their rebellion against God grew so bad that the role of being priests to deliver the word of God to the world was taken from them and the responsibility was given to non-Jewish people who loved Jesus instead:
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Acts 13:46
And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles."
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All of this backs up what you quoted in Romans 3:1-2. There are special privileges God has made for physical Jews, but they are earthly blessings that do not extend into the spiritual realm after this life is over. That is where the passage I quoted from Romans 2 comes in.
It highlights the second type that God recognizes: the spiritual Jew. These individuals are not identified by circumcision or some other physical trait, but by the circumcision of their heart, which is a spiritual trait. Physical Jews literally refer to one group of people: physical Jews. Spiritual Jews, as referred to in the passage above and in other parts of scripture, includes anyone and everyone who put their genuine faith in the God of the bible.
The analogy shown in the entire bible for us to appreciate is that the Lord in heaven reveals how He keeps His promise of spiritual blessings (primarily salvation from hell and an eternal relationship with Him in heaven) for His spiritual Jews that have accepted accepted a relationship in their hearts with God by showing His faithfulness to the covenant He has maintained with His chosen physical Jews on earth over thousands of years (despite how often and severely they broke the covenant). They physical Jews represent an earthly example of a spiritual reality of God's chosen people according to their circumcised hearts obtained through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
So there is no conflict between the two verses you highlight because they each refer to two different types of Jews. Physical Jews are promised earthly blessings if they keep up their end of the covenant, but all people are eligible to become the special treasure that is God's spiritual Jews when they get saved, and spiritual blessings are the reward. Which group gets the better promises? Let's see what the word of God says about that:
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Hebrews 8:6
"But now <Jesus> has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises."
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In fact, this chapter in Hebrews ends by stating the old covenant with the Jews was replaced by the "better" covenant provided by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the sins of Jews just like for everyone else:
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Hebrews 8:13a
When <Jesus> said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.
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Attacking me does not make your false statements any more true, according to the bible. Who ultimately is responsible for what is written in the scriptures? It says so right here, along with how it was done:
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2 Peter 1:21
"For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
1 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
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It is from Acts, a book in the bible written by the Holy Spirit through Luke, that we know about Paul's conversion from being a Christian terminator for the Pharisees (called Saul at the time) to becoming an apostle of the Lord when Jesus Christ directly confronted him on one of his death missions:
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Acts 9: 3-6
As <Saul> was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”
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Paul's work at spreading the gospel worldwide that Jesus commanded of all of His followers (Matthew 28:18-20) before He ascended into heaven as well as Paul's involvement in helping to form the first Christian churches in many nations is documented in many parts of the New Testament, including other chapters in Acts written by the Holy Spirit through Luke.
We see here where it is described how the disciples were initially scared of Paul because of his reputation as a Christian terminator, but they eventually accepted him in their circle as a fellow child of God who would spread the gospel:
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Acts 9:26-28
When <Saul> came to Jerusalem, he was trying to associate with the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. And he was with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord."
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The Holy Spirit led Luke to write Acts, so if you are trying to discount Paul's service for Jesus, not only do you have to toss out book of Acts as well as the gospel that was written by Luke since you find him so untrustworthy. Then there is this passage in the bible about some of the missionary work of Paul (again called Saul during this period):
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Acts 12:24-25
"But the word of the Lord continued to grow and to be multiplied. And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem when they had fulfilled their mission, taking along with them John, who was also called Mark.
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That is the same Mark who, through inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote one the four gospels sharing the good news of Jesus Christ. Then there is the Council in Jerusalem detailed in Acts 15 where you have Paul, Peter and James together arguing for the gospel against the Jewish leadership that rejected salvation through Jesus.
It goes on and on, and you have to decide if you want to reject all of these Godly men who accepted Paul as their own to make your point that is not supported by the bible at all. If that isn't biblical proof for you, maybe the words of the Lord Himself will be enough to put this nonsensical position aside for good:
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Acts 18:9-11
And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent; for I am with you, and no man will attack you in order to harm you, for I have many people in this city.” And he settled there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
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So whether you also call out Moses or King David or Isaiah or John, etc. along with Paul, Luke, Mark, Peter, James and Jesus as making any of this up makes no difference one way or the other. Your battle is with what God and what He has shared with us through His word, not with me.
That is the wrong thought process created by the priests who rewrote the Bible. No one can save anyone but themselves. It is your actions that determine your ultimate destiny. Be a good person. Do not transgress against others. Do not take away from someone what is rightfully theirs. Protect the weak and defend them from aggressors. It is how you lead your life that determines your final destination, not what you believe because most people will pretend that they subscribe to a particular religion but what they are really doing is picking and choosing aspects of the religion that they agree with because they stand to gain some benefit from those aspects while ignoring the uncomfortable aspects that actually seek to make them a better human being. Be a kind, conscientious person, believe that the One will lead you to the right path for your goodness and then let yourself be guided.Jesus saves from the fires of hell. Okay, but who is throwing people into the fires of hell? ... Who is throwing people into the fires of hell?
It is true that no one can know exactly what God thinks but we can make educated guesses from biblical and other stories. A religious historical event like some destruction of an entire nation may seem barbaric or brutal and make one think why would a benevolent all powerful being do something so cruel but one must try to understand every aspect of the event. What led to it and what was accomplished as a result of that event happening.peak hubris is to entertain the idea that you can know the mind of God. Oops.
It is true that no one can know exactly what God thinks but we can make educated guesses from biblical and other stories. A religious historical event like some destruction of an entire nation may seem barbaric or brutal and make one think why would a benevolent all powerful being do something so cruel but one must try to understand every aspect of the event. What led to it and what was accomplished as a result of that event happening.
I would argue that it matters IFSince I’m not bound by the confines of religious faith, I can speculate, but to what end? It simply doesn’t matter.
It is easy for me to understand that God exists and can remain hidden from us without any scientific method to reveal His presence because of the analogy of virtual machines. An application running inside a VM will run happily without issue as long as it has not been designed to access the hardware in a manner that the hypervisor specifically forbids. We could probably detect God's presence IF we could figure out how to reach the end of the Universe and then go beyond. Until atheists can do that, religious people will continue to exist. It is much easier to look at the grand scale of the Universe and deduce that all of that wasn't created on its own, rather than arrogantly state that things have always been this way without a Creator and the entire Universe came into being due to a random Big Bang event without the existence of anything before and our existence is ALSO just a fluke in our Solar System, if not in the entire Universe.I believe atheists take the really easy way out by guessing WITHOUT real evidence that there is NO higher being
That's great, but for all we know there is a god out there that wants us to kill each other for sport. The idea that anyone knows exactly what is right or wrong is arrogance.That is the wrong thought process created by the priests who rewrote the Bible. No one can save anyone but themselves. It is your actions that determine your ultimate destiny. Be a good person. Do not transgress against others. Do not take away from someone what is rightfully theirs. Protect the weak and defend them from aggressors. It is how you lead your life that determines your final destination, not what you believe because most people will pretend that they subscribe to a particular religion but what they are really doing is picking and choosing aspects of the religion that they agree with because they stand to gain some benefit from those aspects while ignoring the uncomfortable aspects that actually seek to make them a better human being. Be a kind, conscientious person, believe that the One will lead you to the right path for your goodness and then let yourself be guided.
Fair enough. And I did not claim that I know exactly what is right. It's the conclusion I came to after reading about the different religions. If God really wanted us to kill each other for sport, it would be really easy to put the necessary thoughts in our heads and that's what we would all be doing right now, living in barbaric times where we wouldn't know if we would make it to the next meal since everyone would be busy trying to snuff us out. The fact that there is no such chaos and we actually MOVED from being barbaric to civilized means that we were guided to what is the right way to live, that is peacefully and in harmony. The troublemakers are still there in the world though and they are the ones guided by the Devil, not God.That's great, but for all we know there is a god out there that wants us to kill each other for sport. The idea that anyone knows exactly what is right or wrong is arrogance.
I would argue that it matters IF
1) we were created for some specific purpose
2) there are repercussions involved in failing to fulfill that purpose
This is what any sensible human being should research to the best of his/her capabilities, if the idea of punishment bothers them. I believe atheists take the really easy way out by guessing WITHOUT real evidence that there is NO higher being and thus it doesn't matter what we do on this planet as long as we don't all end up killing each other and wrecking the foundations of society that allows humanity to exist in relative peace and thrive till the end of times (when the Sun runs out of fuel or some other catastrophic calamity befalls planet Earth).
One very strong reason I believe that the US is not as worse off as deplorable countries like Russia, China and North Korea is because the US as a nation puts their trust in God. It's written on every dollar note (if I'm not mistaken). This acknowledgement of God's existence is the reason I believe that the US is a great land of opportunity. And I strongly believe that the moment dollar notes are modified to remove this acknowledgement, that's when the real devolution of the US as a country will begin.
And yes, I know this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust
That one guy here mentioning that it is arrogance to say anything about understanding God must think that all theologians are arrogant I guess. Which could be extended to say that most intellectuals thus must be arrogant too, which we know is far from the truth since intellectuals can be incredibly humble.
Or it's all just physics. All it would take is some new plant to evolve that produces airborne pheromones that trigger uncontrollable rage in all mammals and we'd tear each other to pieces. Attributing the chemical imbalances in "troublemakers" to a devil is 17th century nonsense. Who created this devil?Fair enough. And I did not claim that I know exactly what is right. It's the conclusion I came to after reading about the different religions. If God really wanted us to kill each other for sport, it would be really easy to put the necessary thoughts in our heads and that's what we would all be doing right now, living in barbaric times where we wouldn't know if we would make it to the next meal since everyone would be busy trying to snuff us out. The fact that there is no such chaos and we actually MOVED from being barbaric to civilized means that we were guided to what is the right way to live, that is peacefully and in harmony. The troublemakers are still there in the world though and they are the ones guided by the Devil, not God.
Obviously God. But He did not create the Devil originally as a malevolent entity. The Devil was one of the most obedient subjects of God until God decided to test him by ordering him to bow before Adam. The Devil refused because he thought Adam, made of clay (the primordial soup) was far inferior to him, an entity created from Fire. So God told Devil that his final resting place will be in Hell forever. The Devil in return asked for just one thing for his millenia of obedient service to God, let me make the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve go astray. And God granted that wish of his.Who created this devil?
That's more a result of bad upbringing. I, for example, grew up in a pretty bigoted environment. But I enlightened myself through reading. I don't feel the need to enforce my beliefs on anyone. I do feel that everyone should do their research and come to similar conclusions like I have, so we can finally exist in peace. I strongly believe that there may be an infinite number of paths towards enlightenment. However, they all lead to one conclusion: we must help each other, respect each other and treat others the way we want to be treated.And really, the only reason to give a shit about this is because people care enough about their beliefs that they feel like it’s their right to force it on others.
That's more a result of bad upbringing. I, for example, grew up in a pretty bigoted environment. But I enlightened myself through reading. I don't feel the need to enforce my beliefs on anyone. I do feel that everyone should do their research and come to similar conclusions like I have, so we can finally exist in peace.