Is god pissed?

[Commodus]

OK, I chuckled.

But you do bring up an interesting topic. What would some of you out there do if you're still around when all people with a true faith in the biblical God (alive or dead) at some point in the future are taken up to be with the Lord? Of course no one has any idea when the rapture will occur, but it will happen:

Please pardon Pohemi420's vitriol, but I do have to remind you of what we've said multiple times, in multiple ways:

If you're non-religious, being told "it will happen" and receiving warnings of hell and damnation is completely meaningless. It's a fly on a rhino's back. There's no evidence or logic to it (the Bible by itself wouldn't represent either), so why would we accept it unquestioningly, as you do?

You said you're not trying to convert us here and now, but that's not true based on the language you're using. You expect us to either convert on the spot or to eventually "see the light." But that's not how it works in real life. If you're really interested in having a discussion, rather than proselytizing, you'll actually listen to us and try to understand our perspective.

 

[dank69]

OK, I chuckled.

But you do bring up an interesting topic. What would some of you out there do if you're still around when all people with a true faith in the biblical God (alive or dead) at some point in the future are taken up to be with the Lord? Of course no one has any idea when the rapture will occur, but it will happen:

...

Hope you've had your Rapture Hatch installed properly.

 

[Pohemi]

Please pardon Pohemi420's vitriol, but I do have to remind you of what we've said multiple times, in multiple ways:...

...If you're really interested in having a discussion, rather than proselytizing, you'll actually listen to us and try to understand our perspective.

It isn't, and it has shown this to us repeatedly for 8 or 9 pages of this thread. It's not willing to listen to anyone who says its bible isn't 110% true and factual.

In other words...a lost cause. If the rest of you could just stop humoring its idiocy and attempting to reason with it, it'll likely go away. Fanatics want an audience.

 

[MtnMan]

Hope you've had your Rapture Hatch installed properly.

I'm ready for the rapture, just to rid our society of these fucktards.

 

[MtnMan]

I just have to disagree. Part of why the American right is so desperate for theocracy is that its leaders have convinced the strongly religious that secularism is this horrible foe that must be defeated at all costs (see: "war on Christmas" rhetoric). Attacking them viciously just reinforces that point, and with current demographics you won't destroy them; not when they have an increasingly rigged political system in their favor, at least.

Besides, from an ethical point of view I see it this way: lead by example. You want to prove that you're more rational and compassionate? Then act that way. That doesn't mean rolling over, but it does mean proving that you're not the demon they're worried you are. Think of it like you would the reason you (presumably) oppose the Bush Jr. administration's uses of torture and indefinite detention while it claimed to be liberating Iraq — you can't claim the moral high ground while you're behaving almost as badly as the people you criticize.

Some of that might work with rational people.... evangelicals, and the trumpgelicals are a fucking cult. Rational thought, reason, is beyond them.
I didn't and don't support Bush branded torture, but evangelical cult loved it.

And they are just so fucking tone-deaf it can only be classified as completely fucking stupid.
Raging against Muslim shira law in one breath and imposing christian shira law in the next breath... rinse and repeat.

 

[brycejones]

OK, I chuckled.

But you do bring up an interesting topic. What would some of you out there do if you're still around when all people with a true faith in the biblical God (alive or dead) at some point in the future are taken up to be with the Lord? Of course no one has any idea when the rapture will occur, but it will happen:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 15:52
"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Mark 13:32
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
~~~~

So the rapture could happen a day from now, a year, a century, etc. Anyone telling you that they figured it out is lying. Still, what would some of you out there do if the rapture happened in your lifetime and due to your continual rejection of Jesus Christ, your choice was honored and as a result you were not included?

According to the bible, the tribulation period of seven years that followed would be the most devastatingly horrific time in history for you:

~~~~~
Matthew 24:21
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will."

Matthew 24:37
"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
~~~~~

"Son of Man" was a title for Jesus. What were the days of Noah like just before the great flood that will be replicated in the world when the tribulation period arrives that the Lord was referencing?

~~~~~
Genesis 6:5-7
The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
~~~~~

This is what invites the final judgement of God over the earth. The evilness in everyone's heart will be out of control, just as it was right before the great flood.

Sp the antichrist and his false prophet (each of whom are sometimes called a beast) will control the "free" world during this time by demanding everyone to worship him or die:

~~~~~
Revelation 13:15-17
"And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name."
~~~~~

Personally I can see how the verses directly above could happen through the use of some type of android made to look like the antichrist. It would be forced into everyone's homes to watch them in a way similar to how Big Brother monitored an individual's every move and speech in the novel '1984', but that's just my personal speculation.

According to the bible literally billions of people will be killed during the tribulation period in a variety of awful ways:

~~~~~
Revelation 6:8
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth"

Revelation: 9:18
"By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths."
~~~~~

^^^ That's just two of the terrible judgements that will happen to the sinful people who don't get raptured. It says in the first act of doom mentioned that one-fourth of the world will be destroyed, and in the second verse another one-third will be killed.

That's not even to mention the widespread lawlessness and anarchy happening all over the world since most people in that time will have zero respect for doing the right thing any more (that is, God's definition of righteousness). This will be in large part due to the fact that the Holy Spirit will no longer partially restrain evil doers from imposing their wickedness upon society as He has been doing all this time (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7).

Then there is all the crazy stuff that the antichrist will pour out over civilization as a whole that he rules over, which includes forcing people (via authority given to the false prophet) to get his mark placed on their foreheads or right hands in order to even buy food under penalty of death if anyone refuses:

~~~~~
Revelation 13:16-18
"Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666."
~~~~~

So in case any of you finds himself caught up in this terrible time to be alive on earth, here are a few tips for you (and any family or friends of yours) to give you some hope according to the bible:

1) Do not, under any circumstances, get the mark of the antichrist. No doubt it will be voluntary to show your allegiance to him (free will, ironically), but it will also be almost impossible to buy anything at all without it. Not only that, you may be hunted down and murdered should you refuse. As bad as that sounds, turning God against you forever would be worse:

~~~~~
Revelation 16:2
"So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image."

Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
~~~~~

2) As awful as all of this sounds (and it will be much worse in actuality), there is this encouraging verse:

~~~~~
Romans 5:20
"...but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more"
~~~~~

Remember the various verses above describing how deeply infected the world will be with sin at that time. It'll be collectively more wicked than at any time before it. Still, God gives you his promise... where sin increased, grace abounds all the more.

His grace is best found in a relationship with the Lord. If you reject the antichrist during the seven year tribulation period, your only hope is to accept the real Jesus Christ. Believe in your heart what He did for you on the cross because of your sins and ask Him to be a part of your life. At that point, no matter what your place in heaven with God will be secured forever. This verse suggests that more people will be saved during this time than at any seven year period in human history.

3) Once saved from death in the afterlife, your life on earth will still be in peril. You will then likely have to face the wrath of the one-world government ruled by the antichrist (first described in Daniel 2). Many, many, many people like yourself will face a brutal death for your choice of Jesus over the antichrist, and a primary way that this will play itself out by enemies cutting off your head. This verse is from a vision the apostle John had of the afterlife:

~~~~~
Revelation 20:4
"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands."
~~~~~

That's about it for the helpful tips. I pray that you don't need them by coming to terms with God's offer of grace right now should the rapture and tribulation period arrives sooner than later.

do you have a history of addiction?

 

[dank69]

Reminded me of this thread:

 

[arredondo]

Now imagine Frank tortures Tanesha for all eternity for not wanting to be with him. Now imagine people worshipping Frank the torturer.

I've pointed out several times in this thread how that perspective is 100% not in line with what's in the bible, but no one can keep you from trying to deceive yourself if you think it'll help you escape being judged. Because that's the end game for you based on how you continue to twist what God has clearly expressed: judgement.

Again, no one... absolutely no one, will be tortured by God because they rejected Him. Instead, everyone who ends up in hell will be there because sin separates us from our Creator. It isn't as if you WILL be condemned for being a sinner; you are ALREADY condemned:

~~~~~
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
~~~~~

The entire reason Jesus died for your sins is so that your relationship with the Father in heaven (from whom you are separated) can be restored. If you choose to be apart from God, only one place exists for their choice to be granted: hell. It cannot be explained any simpler than that.

The sad thing is, once your entire life is played back to you on your day of judgement, the number of sins you committed in what you did, say and extensively think in contrary to the God's perfect will, you yourself shall humbly confess that you are guilty and that Jesus is Lord despite the bold attitude of defiance you're projecting now:

~~~~~
Philippians 2:10-11
"...every knee shall bow...and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
~~~~~

In my analogy above with Frank and Tanesha, the point being made is that if she doesn't want a relationship with him, he won't make her. I think we all can agree that no one should be forced to love another, and one main reason being it would then not be real love. Refusing Frank simply means she won't be with him and nothing more. So, by you refusing God, we can agree that you shouldn't be forced into a relationship with Him either. That's the only point of that analogy.

However, what happens next for you is a different scenario altogether. Why, because He will then torture you? No. You will avail yourself to the misery of your unfortunate destination due to your own free will. The Father in heaven will not be doing anything to you at all while you are in hell.

Honest question: where do you think you should go if you don't want to be in the presence of a Holy God? As I pointed out several times in this thread, our Father in heaven will not allow sin in His presence in the afterlife, so what do you think can be done for you?

Once this sinful universe and everything in it is destroyed, the real "you" (which is the eternal spirit inside your physical body) has to go somewhere. It can't go to heaven because you don't want to be with the Lord. He will honor your choice, and the only place left for you where God will be completely absent from your presence (just like you wanted) is hell. It's a place of "torture" because everything we associate with goodness comes from the Lord. So if God is absent from hell, then how can anything good be there?

You might say, allow a middle ground solution where people live in a not-so-perfect situation that's neither heaven nor hell. That's what you are living through right now! To allow you into heaven covered in your sins will simply pollute the place as it has here on earth. What's the point of repeating that terrible scenario?

It's only by God's grace that you still have His breath in your lungs and are given many niceties in life even though you've rejected Him. I pointed out earlier how even the most twistedly evil people in human history were able to enjoy blessings provided by God while they were here alive on earth (like Hitler). This verse perfect describes how your Father in heaven is able to put up with a sinner's nonsense:

~~~~~
Psalm 145:8
The LORD is gracious and merciful; Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.
~~~~~

Does that sound like a torturer to you? The moment He removes His complete presence in your life, all that you have left is a torturous experience. Out of His lovingkindness He is being so patient in your rejection of a relationship with God, but even though the bible teaches us that while He may be "longsuffering"...

~~~~~
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
~~~~~

...that does not mean that He suffers your rebellion forever. Sin has to be dealt with once and for all, and as you see here, God does not want anyone to perish. That's why He sent Jesus (Who willingly accepted death on the cross) to be tortured in your place.

A wise man long ago said it best: when you defy the will of God, one of you has to die.

 

[Pohemi]

I've pointed out several times in this thread...

You've "pointed out" nothing but your own indoctrination that you've taken as absolute 110% truth.

Your ranting accomplishes nothing. Nobody here wants your bible verses repeatedly spit at them. Repeating it doesn't make it magically true. A few here have tried to actually converse with you on the topic, but you just want to act like a lunatic preacher.

You aren't willing to consider anything outside of your closed-minded bible-view, so please just shut the fuck up now.

I won't read another half page of the same old tired, fake, contrived bullshit each time this idiot posts. He's saying the exact same shit he already did in every other post of circular reasoning. He's now the sole person on 'my list', the one type of imbecile I just won't tolerate.

There are dishonest trolls here that offer more value to discussions. I commend those still attempting to communicate with him, but he needs to stop the religious fanatic-style ranting.

 

[arredondo]

I think my response will be easier to follow if I break your post into parts.

<Part I of IV>
I appreciate your not expecting to convert anyone. At the same time, though, it's predicated on assumptions that don't really hold up. I'm a former Christian who got tired of contorting myself to warp or deny the vast array of science that directly contradicts the Bible.

Well, you yourself contradict the bible right there. There's no such thing as a former Christian.

You were either saved from eternal damnation (due to your sins) by belief in what Jesus did for you on the cross who died in your place or you weren't ever saved. When someone puts even the tiniest amount of genuine faith in the Lord to establish a relationship with Him, that person becomes a new creature in Christ:

~~~~~
2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come."

Ephesians 4:24
"And to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."
~~~~~

That's why you won't see me say to someone that they should give their life to the Lord. He doesn't want your old, sin-filled life. He wants to give you a new one. What is this new creation that the verse speaks of? It literally is the permanent union of the newly saved person and Jesus Christ. The two become one, and with Jesus as Lord over that person's life, they will go on to do great things until the person goes up to heaven.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for that new creation to be transformed back into the sinful, hell-bound spirit the person once was. It doesn't exist anymore for one, and Jesus said Himself that no one can take a saved person from God. Here are His words detailing this fact, as well as explaining why you were never saved to begin with:

~~~~~
John 10:26-30
"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
~~~~~

...and to really drive this important point home, through the writings of the apostle Paul, the Lord explains here why absolutely nothing can ever, ever (ever!) separate a saved person from the love of God:

~~~~~
Romans 8:37-39
"No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
~~~~~

<Part II of IV>
Of being told to hate LGBT people (yes, including in the New Testament) when their sexual orientation is biological and does no harm to anyone. Of not being allowed to question what's true, to think for myself, to let my knowledge evolve and grow.

God created the institution of marriage between a man and his wife in part to give a living illustration of the eternal bond between Jesus and His church that I referred to above. There is an overwhelming amount of references in both the old and new testament to clearly back up the idea that the relationship of the truly saved church and Jesus is compared to that of a marriage, like this passage where Jesus in heaven is called the Lamb of God (after this sinful universe, Satan, and all his followers are put away forever):

~~~~~
Revelation 19:7-9
Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”
~~~~~

So if the Creator of everyone has defined how relationships are to be, any time we defy Him it is simply a sin by definition. There's really no need to even try to go out of one's way to specify this sin is said to be worse than that one, etc. To Him (as expressed throughout His word), anything sexual other than that between one man and woman united by marriage before God is wrong.

That includes what I went through. I was unsaved and I slept around before marriage... which was sin. I lived with my girlfriend (who eventually became pregnant, and I then married her one week before the baby was born)... which was sin. Even as a married man, I secretly watched a lot of porn hoping no one would find out (though God saw me).... which was sin. I am truly blessed that not only did God forgive me of all my sins once I accepted His free gift of salvation, but He also changed me on the inside to where I don't pursue sinful lusts any more.

So to try to carve out some carefully worded definition to try and make right that which clearly defies God makes no sense. He is the author of anything and everything that is good, He is a Holy God, so it is what He says that matters... not me, or you or anyone else when it is all said and done. This aspect of life too will be accounted for in front of Him. Everyone who is unsaved can try to explain to Him with any excuse they want on that final day, but He will render His judgment against all unrighteousness all the same:

~~~~~
Hebrews 9:27
"And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment"

Romans 1:18
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."
~~~~~

However, the one gigantic falsehood you wrote is just flat out not true. Nowhere does it say that we as Christians are to hate a sinner of any type, including outright enemies. In fact, Jesus commands the opposite:

~~~~~
Matthew 5:43-44
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
~~~~~

So clearly we are to love anyone, sinful or not, if we as Christians are to do as the Lord says. As I posted before, doing so would be simply following the example of Christ Himself:

~~~~~
Romans 5:8
"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
~~~~~

That right there is real Christianity in a nutshell. I don't care how many people out there yell and scream words of hate towards another for this reason or that... Jesus loves you! He hates sin, but He has nothing but love for the sinner and only desires that the person will receive Him. He proved His love for each of us by dying in our place for the sins we committed against God and His perfect will for our lives.

The sad thing is, as I've pointed out in earlier posts in this thread, the bible makes it clear that His love alone won't keep you out of hell. It's only God's grace that can keep you out of hell. The word 'grace' means something offered to you that you didn't earn and you don't even deserve. Yes, Jesus died for your sins, but you have to accept the gift of salvation that He is offering:

~~~~~
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
~~~~~

See the underlined word there? it doesn't say that God loved everyone so much that he just ignored or forgot about their sins so they can go to heaven. No, as I explained in an earlier post in this thread, if God ignored His own law (the penalty for any sin is death), then He is no longer a perfect judge. So sin always has to be dealt with by death, and Jesus volunteered to die in your place for your sins.

God gave His Son so you can avoid hell and live in heaven forever. Grace saves you, and it is His love that made His gracious act possible. All you have to do is receive His gift through belief in what He did for you. It couldn't be any easier than that.

<Part III of IV>
For that matter, I find it both strange and telling that folks will thank God for someone recovering from an injury or illness, but not for God dealing that blow in the first place. If you're consistent, you should thank God for killing millions of people with COVID-19 and other diseases, many of them in especially painful ways, simply because they wanted to be around friends and family. That people only thank God for the good things just shows that it's a secular impulse to appreciate the people in our lives. And"that's what God wanted" is not an explanation, because you don't know that even if we make the assumption God is real; it's just a hand-waving excuse to avoid dealing with a world where horrible things happen to good people without any discernible moral reason.

The issue here is you completely ignore the true source of everything bad in all of human history... sin. There was no such thing as evil or terrible circumstances or wickedness or sickness or even death until sin was introduced by His creations who defied Him.

That's the reason why no matter where you go in the world, or no matter how different cultures lived over time, one common emotion shared by most is sadness when a loved one dies. Why? Because we innately know that death is wrong. Even Jesus wept when He came to town and His friend had been declared dead for four days (though He resurrected Him later... this is all in John 11). Death, the ultimate terrible fact of the current human experience, was never meant to be.

However, one of several wonderful outcomes from Jesus laying down His own life for you and me on the cross was that He conquered death by doing so. This is because He never committed one sin His entire life of 33 years, so the law that death is the penalty for sin was unfairly applied to Him.

~~~~~
Revelation 1:18
"...I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades."

1 Corinthians 15:55
“O Death, where is your victory? O Grave, where is your sting?”
~~~~~

So God has the answer to even the worst outcome of this miserable human experience that is caused by the sins you and I committed, as well as everyone around us: salvation through Jesus Christ. Remember, the Lord does not sin, we do. He gets our praise and thankfulness because of His patience and mercy DESPITE our sinful selves.

The law being followed means that any time we sin, we are all guilty to succumb to the first death instantly (separation of the spirit from the body), and nothing required God to save us from forever suffering the second death (eternal separation from Him). Your sentence for being guilty as an unsaved person who has not accepted God's gift of grace has not yet been carried out... and you believe that you can arrogantly resent the One who created you while enjoying His mercy?

You are given a chance to not only escape the perils of hell, but to spend eternity in indescribable bliss, joy and happiness. The only thing asked of you is to accept Him through faith, and somehow He's doing you wrong? He can and will sadly honor your rebellion and rejection of Him if that's what you want, but that poor decision is not His fault. It literally makes zero sense.

<Part IV of IV>
If you rely chiefly on evidence and reason, you can't operate on the possibility that there might be a spiritual element. You operate on the way the universe is observed to work, and if you don't know how something works, you either try to learn how it works using the scientific method (conduct experiments, verify that results hold up under scrutiny) or accept that you have no answer. You don't assign a spiritual origin to something just because you don't have a ready-made corporeal explanation for it. As history has shown, things we thought could only be explained by the spiritual have often turned out to have very solid scientific explanations.
How do you know the divine is involved in anything, really? Your support always boils down to "it's true because the Bible says it's true." But that's a tautology of sorts, a logical loop where you're never allowed to ask if it's really true or just the imaginings of ancient people who didn't have the tools to fully investigate the world around them. And if merely declaring loudly that something is true is enough, then a Buddhist or Hindu has just as much validity as you.
This still reflects what I pointed out earlier: that you act on the assumption that everyone 'knows' your view of the world is true, and just chooses to ignore it. Repeating that doesn't make it any more relevant to non-religious people, and doesn't make it true.

I pointed out how God addresses in the bible the points you make here and here.

 

[Commodus]

Well, you yourself contradict the bible right there. There's no such thing as a former Christian.

You were either saved from eternal damnation (due to your sins) by belief in what Jesus did for you on the cross who died in your place or you weren't ever saved. When someone puts even the tiniest amount of genuine faith in the Lord to establish a relationship with Him, that person becomes a new creature in Christ:

It's a good thing I don't believe in the Bible, then, so there's nothing to contradict.

Again, you don't understand: if you're non-religious, the Bible's interpretations of life don't hold sway. Claims about having "never been saved" don't matter, because you're trying to shoehorn me into a worldview that I no longer accept and know isn't supported by evidence. I am a former Christian, however much you might like to pretend I'm not.

So if the Creator of everyone has defined how relationships are to be, any time we defy Him it is simply a sin by definition. There's really no need to even try to go out of one's way to specify this sin is said to be worse than that one, etc. To Him (as expressed throughout His word), anything sexual other than that between one man and woman united by marriage before God is wrong.

That includes what I went through. I was unsaved and I slept around before marriage... which was sin. I lived with my girlfriend (who eventually became pregnant, and I then married her one week before the baby was born)... which was sin. Even as a married man, I secretly watched a lot of porn hoping no one would find out (though God saw me).... which was sin. I am truly blessed that not only did God forgive me of all my sins once I accepted His free gift of salvation, but He also changed me on the inside to where I don't pursue sinful lusts any more.

Here's the thing, though: there's strong evidence that being LGBT is genetic or otherwise baked in. In your view of the world, then, that means God made their sexuality sinful before they were even born. I know the Bible claims we're all born sinful, but this would mean that any expression of sexuality for them would be a sin where it wouldn't be for most people. Why would God slap extra sinfulness on a significant portion of the population (5.6% of the US, according to 2021 data) before they could even make a choice?

The demonstrable truth is that being LGBT is a healthy and fine thing when society accepts it and cares for these people as equals. I know many LGBT people who are wonderful, upstanding people; they're just hardwired to love someone other than a cisgender person of the opposite sex, and that's something that occurs naturally across many species. Likewise, non-religious (or, for that matter, non-conservative religious) people know that sex outside of marriage and porn aren't wrong by themselves; it's when that behavior is hurtful that it becomes a problem. Don't cheat, don't give a partner false expectations or bully them into sex, don't watch porn that's either non-consensual or serves as a replacement for an existing partnership.

And thanks for divulging your background... suddenly, your ignore-what-others-are-saying approach makes more sense. I've seen your kind before — the sort whose life went off the rails, and became a born-again Christian because it was an easy way to regain a sense of moral structure. You cling to it because it's what prevented a bad situation from getting worse. But you don't need to "see the light" to put your life back on track; it's entirely possible to remain secular while being a kinder, more self-disciplined person. It just requires more work, as real-life morality is not simple or static.

The law being followed means that any time we sin, we are all guilty to succumb to the first death instantly (separation of the spirit from the body), and nothing required God to save us from forever suffering the second death (eternal separation from Him). Your sentence for being guilty as an unsaved person who has not accepted God's gift of grace has not yet been carried out... and you believe that you can arrogantly resent the One who created you while enjoying His mercy?

You are given a chance to not only escape the perils of hell, but to spend eternity in indescribable bliss, joy and happiness. The only thing asked of you is to accept Him through faith, and somehow He's doing you wrong? He can and will sadly honor your rebellion and rejection of Him if that's what you want, but that poor decision is not His fault. It literally makes zero sense.

Who said I was expecting mercy? I don't believe any god exists, so there's nothing to resent and no mercy to expect.

I also have to giggle at your saying "it literally makes zero sense." You can't complain about my logic or reason when your beliefs, by their nature, require you to suspend logic and critical thinking (that's what faith is, after all — unquestioning belief). To me, the nonsensical thing is to put all your trust in a book written thousands of years ago by people who had basic misunderstandings of science (just look at how they treated menstruation), who didn't witness the events they wrote about and frequently made claims uncorroborated elsewhere.

Nonsensical is twisting yourself into knots to deny the strong evidence life and the universe existed billions of years before humans did. Nonsensical is refusing to ask whether the things you believe are real or just the product of someone's imagination (including your own). Sense means exercising your critical thinking skills for all topics, not just convenient ones; it means having the freedom to change your answer, and to admit you don't have an answer.

 

[brycejones]

That includes what I went through. I was unsaved and I slept around before marriage... which was sin. I lived with my girlfriend (who eventually became pregnant, and I then married her one week before the baby was born)... which was sin. Even as a married man, I secretly watched a lot of porn hoping no one would find out (though God saw me).... which was sin. I am truly blessed that not only did God forgive me of all my sins once I accepted His free gift of salvation, but He also changed me on the inside to where I don't pursue sinful lusts any more.

So you replaced an addiction to sex with one to religion. That answers my question.

 

[hal2kilo]

I've pointed out several times in this thread how that perspective is 100% not in line with what's in the bible, but no one can keep you from trying to deceive yourself if you think it'll help you escape being judged. Because that's the end game for you based on how you continue to twist what God has clearly expressed: judgement.

Again, no one... absolutely no one, will be tortured by God because they rejected Him. Instead, everyone who ends up in hell will be there because sin separates us from our Creator. It isn't as if you WILL be condemned for being a sinner; you are ALREADY condemned:

~~~~~
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
~~~~~

The entire reason Jesus died for your sins is so that your relationship with the Father in heaven (from whom you are separated) can be restored. If you choose to be apart from God, only one place exists for their choice to be granted: hell. It cannot be explained any simpler than that.

The sad thing is, once your entire life is played back to you on your day of judgement, the number of sins you committed in what you did, say and extensively think in contrary to the God's perfect will, you yourself shall humbly confess that you are guilty and that Jesus is Lord despite the bold attitude of defiance you're projecting now:

~~~~~
Philippians 2:10-11
"...every knee shall bow...and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
~~~~~

In my analogy above with Frank and Tanesha, the point being made is that if she doesn't want a relationship with him, he won't make her. I think we all can agree that no one should be forced to love another, and one main reason being it would then not be real love. Refusing Frank simply means she won't be with him and nothing more. So, by you refusing God, we can agree that you shouldn't be forced into a relationship with Him either. That's the only point of that analogy.

However, what happens next for you is a different scenario altogether. Why, because He will then torture you? No. You will avail yourself to the misery of your unfortunate destination due to your own free will. The Father in heaven will not be doing anything to you at all while you are in hell.

Honest question: where do you think you should go if you don't want to be in the presence of a Holy God? As I pointed out several times in this thread, our Father in heaven will not allow sin in His presence in the afterlife, so what do you think can be done for you?

Once this sinful universe and everything in it is destroyed, the real "you" (which is the eternal spirit inside your physical body) has to go somewhere. It can't go to heaven because you don't want to be with the Lord. He will honor your choice, and the only place left for you where God will be completely absent from your presence (just like you wanted) is hell. It's a place of "torture" because everything we associate with goodness comes from the Lord. So if God is absent from hell, then how can anything good be there?

You might say, allow a middle ground solution where people live in a not-so-perfect situation that's neither heaven nor hell. That's what you are living through right now! To allow you into heaven covered in your sins will simply pollute the place as it has here on earth. What's the point of repeating that terrible scenario?

It's only by God's grace that you still have His breath in your lungs and are given many niceties in life even though you've rejected Him. I pointed out earlier how even the most twistedly evil people in human history were able to enjoy blessings provided by God while they were here alive on earth (like Hitler). This verse perfect describes how your Father in heaven is able to put up with a sinner's nonsense:

~~~~~
Psalm 145:8
The LORD is gracious and merciful; Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.
~~~~~

Does that sound like a torturer to you? The moment He removes His complete presence in your life, all that you have left is a torturous experience. Out of His lovingkindness He is being so patient in your rejection of a relationship with God, but even though the bible teaches us that while He may be "longsuffering"...

~~~~~
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
~~~~~

...that does not mean that He suffers your rebellion forever. Sin has to be dealt with once and for all, and as you see here, God does not want anyone to perish. That's why He sent Jesus (Who willingly accepted death on the cross) to be tortured in your place.

A wise man long ago said it best: when you defy the will of God, one of you has to die.

Love being blackmailed, to be disposed of a thing that does not exist in the first place. So jealous is he.

 

[Pohemi]

'Everything I choose to believe is indisputable fact, whether you accept it or not'.

People such as this are incapable of intelligent discussion on religion, "God", spirituality, etc. or changing their limited or non-existent consciousness.

It'd be a comical notion if it weren't so widespread and potentially harmful (and obviously not limited to Christianity).

 

[JD50]

I wonder if the thought of god watching him jerk off turned him on?

 

[Moonbeam]

I wonder if the thought of god watching him jerk off turned him on?

Sounds more like something you worry about and project.

 

[JD50]

Sounds more like something you worry about and project.

Yea, you caught me.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yea, you caught me.

There is more than one way to be dealt a bad hand.

 

[arredondo]

Moonbeam, I will respond to the really thoughtful post you wrote by breaking it into parts:

<Part I of III>
The point of Christianity, in my opinion, is help people to become Christians.

This observation you make here is what a lot of people believe. To some degree, I more or less thought the same thing until very recently. I heard a sermon going over a chapter in Psalms where the pastor really illuminated what the point of Christianity actually is (backing it up with scripture from God's word, of course). The more I chewed over how he explained it, the more it made all the sense in the world. Here's a brief summary:

He explained that the primary reason for witnessing to people or sharing bible studies or engaging in missionary work or even preaching from the pulpit is not for people to get saved. He went on to say that even though Jesus commanded Christians to spread the gospel to all the nations (as I mentioned in an earlier post here), that's closer to the answer, but it still is not the primary goal. Instead, the main purpose for all of this that the children of the Lord do here on earth is found in this passage:

~~~~~
Psalm 67:3-5
"Let the peoples praise You, O God; Let all the peoples praise You.
Let the nations be glad and sing for joy;
For You will judge the peoples with uprightness, and guide the nations on the earth.
Let the peoples praise You, O God; Let all the peoples praise You."
~~~~~

The main point of Christianity is to glorify God. Any good thing which follows that is a distant second at best. Here are some reasons why as I see it:

Of course the Lord wants everyone He created to have a personal, eternal relationship with Him. However, according to the bible, that could not happen because of the sin in our lives separating us from our Father in heaven.

That's where the "good news" comes in, which is the definition of the gospel. Jesus dies in my place so I don't have to suffer in hell for eternity due to my deeply sinful life. He then arose from death three days later and ascended into heaven, which allows me to go as well since I accepted His loving offer of grace.

But the problem with anyone reading that partial summary misses the main point. So far, the story being told in the last two paragraphs is all about "me". It describes how "I" was lost and what Jesus did for "me" and how wonderful it is that "I" get to go to heaven instead of hell.

Me, me, me, me, me.

What about the One who created me to begin with? He is the One who protected me from the consequences of my sins even when I was in rebellion with Him (or used consequences to encourage me to draw closer to Him). He is the One who blessed me with a wonderful house, the perfect wife, tremendous kids who I love very much, a great job, and all kinds of toys and gadgets to enjoy in life... not to mention my destination in heaven waiting for me after He paid for and forgave me of my evil deeds. What about Him?

I was created before the foundation of the earth for a relationship with my Creator. Yes, He blesses me, corrects me, encourages me and protects me, and even died for me. The best part of my personal testimony of salvation is not to brag about myself and all the peace, joy, and love I continue to grow in... it's to brag about my Lord and Savior. He gets all the credit for who I am becoming as a person each day, and He is the main reason I look forward to eternal life.

I've quoted this random internet forum signature before, but if someone reading this would be happy to go to heaven even if Jesus isn't there, you won't be there either.

<Part II of III>
My idea of a Christian from what I know about Christianity can be found in The Lord's Prayer:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

When I read that I get the impression I would like a person who sets before him or her such an aim. I really don't need to judge what brought them to have such an aim. I would say too that anybody truly dedicated to such a prayer would be a much better person than me.

Thank you for quoting this. Re-reading it again after what I wrote above from that pastor's sermon is really illuminating. That prayer (which comes from Matthew 6:9-13) backs up a lot of what was said (as does most of the bible, tbh). Jesus told the disciples to pray like this, and notice how it focuses on glorifying God.

Once saved, we are to take the time in our prayers to show Him great honor and deep respect. This is often done by praising Him simply for who He is...

• God is not merely some old man in the sky, but "our Father in heaven".
• He doesn't have a name that we can freely blaspheme ("G___ dammit!"... "J___ F'ing C___!"), but "hallowed be Thy name".
• We should look forward to seeing His kingdom come more so than any other earthly pursuit we prioritize.
• Also, since the sin of pride is a primary obstacle to trusting in God, it is HIGHLY important that we understand that every single request made in prayer is not simply a wish to a genie, but should be done with the understanding that "Thy will be done, dear Lord" and not your own.

What a tremendous passage. I should point out two things, however. Jesus told the disciples this is HOW you should pray, and not this is exactly what you should pray. The bible preaches against mindless repetition in prayer, indicating that it is almost meaningless. The idea is that you are talking to God... so just talk to Him with your heart. He is not looking for eloquence more than He is sincerity:

~~~~~
Matthew 6:7-8
“And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him""
~~~~~

Also, it is commonly called the Lord's prayer even though it is really isn't a prayer Jesus would say for Himself. He instead was teaching the style of prayer to the disciples because He would never have to ask the Father for forgiveness for debts/trespasses since He never sinned.

<Part III of III>
I would also say to have such an aim one would not specifically need to be a Christian.

If you read what I wrote above, you should surely be able to see why this final statement of yours is completely impossible. It's like suggesting someone can learn to swim without ever getting in the water. There is no such thing as glorifying the God of the bible without belief in Him to begin with.

It all starts with faith in God through belief (even if it is a tiny bit as long as it is real), you will immediately be saved from the consequences from your sins, and He then takes over your life from there. However, if one does not have faith, then they are wasting their time on earth with whatever that Godless pursuit is that they follow, and their eternal destination will be torment in the afterlife. This is not my opinion, but is expressed by the Lord in the bible:

~~~~~
Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him."

Revelation 21:8
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
~~~~~

As an added note for that last, sobering scripture above, understand that the verse was originally written in Greek nearly two thousand years ago. The Greek word for "sorcery" is pharmakeia. The English word for pharmaceuticals is derived from it, and back in the day there were some who would take drugs not just for legit medicinal purposes, but for their hallucinatory effect on the brain as they participated in all kinds of terrible rituals.

It is in that type of context where mind-twisting drug use is a sin, and here, those that allow themselves to be addicted to them are referred to as "sorcerers".

 

[sportage]

Well, we know there must be a hell because where else in the afterlife is god to put those insane Trumpies and all the insane Trump worshiping fallen christians? Surely, god would not allow them into heaven to run amuck causing chaos with claiming the pearly gates are actually "Trump's WALL".
In heaven, god would never allow those Trump rallies, or allow those Trumpies to forever try installing Donald Trump as the new god. I mean, who the hell wants to put up with that shit?

I bet god wishes he had never created a Donald Trump. Actually, it was all a big mistake. You see, god was taking a dump and Donald Trump popped out, and so then what was god to do with a large orange turd??? Make it president?
Oh damn.... god mistake number two.

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonbeam, I will respond to the really thoughtful post you wrote by breaking it into parts:

Thank you for your post. I would like to share with you some thoughts from someone I think is a real Christian, someone transformed by the Christian faith, in the hope his words may also mean something to you:

If you are interested do a search for 'Sayings of Meister Eckhart'

 

[railer]

There is no god.
And so long as you keep putting all human responsibility on an imaginary character, humans will have no motivation to better themselves.

This. No read to read anything else.
I did scroll down to see if there was a better post than this, but just saw waves and waves of meaningless text from the resident babbler here, so quickly scrolled back up.

 

[arredondo]

You know I think I prefer Satanism.
Yea if I'd have to choose, it'd be Satanism hands down.

Think about it for a second, the patriarchy that is heaven, god and all his angels, gods word is infallible, do as he says no questions asked OR ELSE.
Here comes along the character morning star, and for his curiosity he is cast out of heaven to fend for himself. He lost his family but gained freedom. Freedom of oppression.

Within the framework of the satanic, I can chose to do good upon others without judgement from my religious betters. Of anyone in fact. I can also chose to punish those who wreck bullshit onto others.

I must say, I like this freedom part quite a bit. Sign me up for the apple.

Perhaps you're being sarcastic, perhaps you're just being contrary, or perhaps there's a slight chance you believe what you just said. None of that matters though due to the fact that it doesn't end well for Satan at all:

~~~~~
Revelation 20:10
"...and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
~~~~~

It would be almost funny if the wickedness that Satan encourages throughout human history hasn't been so destructive that his main weapon are people who willingly allow him to lead them by the nose to accomplish his evil desires on each other.

The fallen arch angel's main power is influence. We've all heard the saying, "the devil made me do it". That's impossible, though. All he can do is tempt you into doing, saying or extensively think about something wrong. He cannot make you do anything.

The idea that the saying is trying to convey is actually the same basic idea you tried to communicate in your post. It's the oldest excuse the people throw out when they are caught committing sin that there is in the book....literally. When Adam is confronted by God for defying His commandment before trying to hide in his guilt in shame, what excuse did he offer up?

~~~~~
Genesis 3:12
“The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.”
~~~~~

OK, Adam. It's was Eve's fault you disobeyed the Lord, and then you throw out some shade towards God Himself by saying that He was the one to bring her to you in the first place. In the next verse, does Eve take responsibility? Of course not - she blames Satan who deceived her through the serpent.

Everybody wants to point their finger at someone else when they mess up in life, as long as they don't accept responsibility themselves. The heart behind your write-up is no different, and as I pointed out in earlier posts, the time will come when you shall agree willingly with what God has being saying all along - that He is Lord. I just hope you first say it down here while you still can so you'll avoid the deeply harsh consequences of rejecting Him when your day of judgement arrives:

~~~~~
Romans 14:10b-12
...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live," says the Lord, "every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
~~~~~

The playbook of Satan is perhaps the most predictable spiritual activity that we can observe in this life. Rather than list a bajillion terrible things he tries to orchestrate, just look at the first half of this verse expressed by Jesus when describing Satan's motives (from John 10:10):

“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy"

Why is the devil called a thief? Because his goal is to steal away any source of goodness in your life here and now, as well as steal away a loving relationship with your Creator in the next life. The thing is, he cannot do that unless you allow it (which so far you admit to doing so).

He also seeks to kill anything and everything you hold dear that is good in the eyes of the Lord. Satan will try to kill any blessed relationships you have with friends and family. His goal is to kill your hopes and dreams for a wonderful future.

Ultimately, Satan wants you to destroy you (and any hope you may have in God) before you choose to accept Jesus as your Savior from eternal judgement for your sins.

God won't allow that last act to happen so easily, however. If you die while still rejecting the Lord as part of your life, it will be because you finally convinced him you prefer your life of sin over a relationship with the one who died in your place. He will have sadly accepted your decision.

So that's half of one verse where Jesus explains why Satan is after you. In the second half of John 10:10, the Lord explains why He arrived in this sinful world:

"I came that you may have life, and have it abundantly."

It's not enough for God that you just "get by" once you humbly accept His free gift of forgiveness for your evil deeds. He wants to give you an ABUNDANT life. Yes, the things He has planned for you can include tangible blessings such as material things and a lot of the pleasant experiences we seek to enjoy. But he will offer so much more than the tangible:

~~~~~
Galatians 5:22
“But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace...”
~~~~~

Instead of primarily enjoying the love you receive from family and friends, you will appreciate so much more the LOVE that the Lord has for you:

~~~~~
Romans 5:8
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
~~~~~

Instead of simply providing happiness in your life (which is based on the ups and downs of circumstances), God wants to give you JOY, which rises above any occasions because you will grow to put your trust in Him:

~~~~~
Psalm 16:11
"You will make known to me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever."

Nehemiah 8:10
"Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength."
~~~~~

Instead of just making it easier to get along better with people as you become more like Christ in your personality (being less aggressive and combative as you've been here in this thread), God wants to give you a PEACE beyond all understanding that is only found in a relationship with Jesus, even when chaos is surrounding you. He had this to say about His words to us in the bible:

~~~~~
John 16:33
"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
~~~~~

We cannot generate these three blessings in their most potent form as described above apart from a relationship with God. Without Him, it is simply impossible. With Him, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26). That's just a taste of the fullness of the abundant life available to you for the taking.

So the choice between what is being offered from two sources to you is wrapped up in John 10:10 alone. If you want a relationship in the afterlife with the One who loves you far more than you even love yourself, with the One who wants to spend eternity blessing you in heaven, simply thank the Lord for offering His forgiveness to you for your sins with an honest heart and it is done. Love, joy and peace in the purest sense can be yours.

If you instead continue to want a relationship with he who seeks to steal, kill and destroy everything you hold dear (and beyond), nothing more from you is needed as you are already condemned, and the devil will be burning forever in hell right alongside you in the end.

~~~~~
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."
~~~~~

The "freedom" that you seem to see in that unfortunate choice is nowhere to be found at all.

 

[cytg111]

tormented forever… yea I dont think so. You understand that the neural construct cannot hold an infinite amount of information right? At some point the recording is gonna tape over the previous torment and there be little to nothing left of your essence to begin with.
At the very core of your scare and fear tactics your faith turns to dust with even the faintest ray of photons gracing its surface.
Damnation. Bitch please.

Go watch pulp fiction for the 500th time and close the windows on this atpn bible study.

 

[arredondo]

This imaginary "he" you talk about ain't said shit, no more so than Santa said ho ho ho. If some spirit is 'speaking to you', you are hallucinating. But given that many were being trained about this 'spirit' long before they were ever taught about potty training, it is not surprising.

Young children were not taught about morals and right and wrong, their behavior was just being controlled by the threat of punishment by this wrathful being, and doubled down in December with the threat of coal in your stocking because now imaginary Santa was also "watching". That's not parenting, that merely is controlling behavior through fear.

Eh, there's not a person of age that has never had it cross their mind that something they want to do that God forbids is very wrong. The same is true about a feeling coming over a person that they should do the right thing in a situation.

Some people will try to claim it's simply one's conscience, but when it is encouragement to do the right thing in accordance with the bible (and avoid doing something bad), it is actually the Lord communicating to our spiritual ears what is morally right and what is morally wrong:

~~~~~
Isaiah 30:21
"Your ears will hear a word behind you, 'This is the way, walk in it,' whenever you turn to the right or to the left."
~~~~~

In fact, for an unbeliever like yourself the Holy Spirit has focused on communicating no less than three important aspects of your life directly to you for your benefit, whether you acknowledge and appreciate them or not:

~~~~~
#1
Jesus promised that He would send the Holy Spirit to “convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment” (John 16:8).

This is why all people who end up in hell will have no excuse as to how they got there. There is the sin that humans commit, there is the importance of living a perfect life without sin that only Jesus achieved, and there is the judgement of eternal damnation (separation from the Father) for committing even just one sin.
~~~~~
#2
The Holy Spirit makes it known what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross by paying the price with His very life for sins YOU committed (John 15:26).

He will encourage you to wisely select the single most important choice you can make before you stand before God who then will honor that choice: do you want eternity with Him or eternity apart from Him?
~~~~~
#3
Currently, the Holy Spirit is also restraining sin and combating “the mystery of lawlessness” in the world. This action keeps the rise of the Antichrist at bay (2 Thessalonians 2:6–10).

After people of faith are raptured up to be with the Lord, every sinner left behind will have to deal with the fact that the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the evil of humanity as He is now.
~~~~~

All of that means you are currently living in God's grace right now - he continues to bless you with His love, compassion and patience while you are still breathing his breath in your lungs. Grace is defined as bestowing His goodness over you even though it was not earned and is not even deserved.

God is letting you know in advance what your ultimate destination is and how you ended up on that path (sin, righteousness and judgement). He has made it known to you that He provided a way for you to avoid that terrible fate (through Jesus Christ, the Son of your Father in heaven).

Finally, your entire existence right now would be nowhere near as safe if the Holy Spirit stopped restraining the full impact of evil deeds that people want to inflict on one another (which will change when the terrible tribulation period begins).

In one sense, sadly, it is to be expected you would take the position that you've embraced. God explained why right here:
~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:14
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."
~~~~~

That's the bible's way of saying it is not a surprise if everything written above went over your (spiritual) head because you think it is all ridiculous. You won't hold that view forever though, and I hope you change your heart sooner than later when it could be too late. Know that the only way your heart will change is through God's word - nothing else works:

~~~~~
Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him."

Romans 10:17
"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
~~~~~