Is god pissed?

[brycejones]

Lol, no doubt you've used the term "sundown" in your life even though the sun technically doesn't go down.

But to answer your question directly, I believe that the word of God was written through various men by the Holy Spirit:
2 Peter 1:20-21
"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

Why did God send us the bible that he wrote? He explains it in part right here:
2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness"

BTW, the word "reproof" is similar to conviction, which is what happens when you feel bad for doing wrong.

It's really convenient that the men who in theory wrote the bible claimed that their words were from god.

BTW god told me to write this.

 

[Mai72]

It's really convenient that the men who in theory wrote the bible claimed that their words were from god.

BTW god told me to write this.

Yea I could care less what the bible has to say. What believers have to understand is the bible is the claim. Its not the proof. Christians can quote scripture all day. It still doesn't prove anything. Why aren't there any 3rd party sources to back up their claims? Its because they have none, so they have to rely on scripture. Well first, they should know that you can't prove the bible with the bible. That is a circular fallacy. And, we have confirmation bias as well. If they could use the bible as their "proof" Muslims could be able to do the same with the Quarn, and Hindus the same with the Bhagavad Gita.

Faith is the excuse people give for believing in something when they don't have a good reason.

 

[arredondo]

It's really convenient that the men who in theory wrote the bible claimed that their words were from god.

BTW god told me to write this.

Yea I could care less what the bible has to say. What believers have tio understand is the bible is the claim. Its not the proof. Christians can quote scripture all day. It still doesn't prove anything. Why aren't there any 3rd party sources to back up does claims? Its because they have none, so they have to rely on scripture. Well first, they should know that you can't prove the bible with the bible. That is a circular fallacy. And, we have confirmation bias as well. If they could use the bible as their "proof" Muslims shoould be able to do theb same with the Quarn, and Hindus the same with the Bhagavad Gita.

What is faith: Faith is the excuse people give for believing in something when they don't have a good reason.

Well, the fact that they wrote what the Lord wanted them to write comes down to two possibilities, right? Either it is true or not true.

Objectively speaking, if the God described in the bible is real, then He is able to do anything He wants including expressing Himself through His word, and choosing the people He wants to write it down.

So how do we find out if what He says in the bible is true or not? In one of several biblical references, God describes it this way:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:10-16
"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that they will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ."
~~~~~

In short, one comprehends what God wants them to know about anything and everything when God (through the Holy Spirit) reveals it to them.

Attempts at trying to figure out any aspect of the Creator of everything using mere human intellect and emotions alone is futile. It's easier for a single cell amoeba living at the lowest point of the deepest ocean to understand the complexities of a space station.

That's not to say that reason and emotions are unimportant when it comes to the things of God. It's that instead they are secondary at best. The Holy Spirit reveals truth to the real you and me (who are eternal spirits ourselves, living in a body while here on earth according to the bible), and only then can intellect and emotion be brought in to fully embrace it. I mean, the bible literally addresses the point of view you expressed right here:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 1:21-24
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
~~~~~

In this passage, Jews are used as an example of any religious person out there looking for a sign from Him so they have emotional experience as proof to the Lord being real. Conversely, the Greeks are used as an example of the non-religious person out there looking for intellectual evidence as proof to the Lord being real.

This passage says that God chose not do either method. Instead, He chose to save you and me from our sins through what everyone out there believes is foolishness: the sacrifice Jesus dying on the cross for our sins and rising from the dead three days later so we can have eternal life with Him. That's the gospel, a word that means "good news". I expanded on this point in my first post in this thread.

The wisdom of God, as that passage concludes, can only be ascertained through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is the only one who can reveal that to you. Every other attempt by everyone who has ever lived has failed because the Creator decides how He wants His truth revealed and embraced, not us.

 

[brycejones]

Well, the fact that they wrote what the Lord wanted them to write comes down to two possibilities, right? Either it is true or not true.

Objectively speaking, if the God described in the bible is real, then He is able to do anything He wants including expressing Himself through His word, and choosing the people He wants to write it down.

So how do we find out if what He says in the bible is true or not? In one of several biblical references, God describes it this way:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:10-16
"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that they will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ."
~~~~~

In short, one comprehends what God wants them to know about anything and everything when God (through the Holy Spirit) reveals it to them.

Attempts at trying to figure out any aspect of the Creator of everything using mere human intellect and emotions alone is futile. It's easier for a single cell amoeba living at the lowest point of the deepest ocean to understand the complexities of a space station.

That's not to say that reason and emotions are unimportant when it comes to the things of God. It's that instead they are secondary at best. The Holy Spirit reveals truth to the real you and me (who are eternal spirits ourselves, living in a body while here on earth according to the bible), and only then can intellect and emotion be brought in to fully embrace it. I mean, the bible literally addresses the point of view you expressed right here:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 1:21-24
"For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
~~~~~

In this passage, Jews are used as an example of any religious person out there looking for a sign from Him so they have emotional experience as proof to the Lord being real. Conversely, the Greeks are used as an example of the non-religious person out there looking for intellectual evidence as proof to the Lord being real.

This passage says that God chose not do either method. Instead, He chose to save you and me from our sins through what everyone out there believes is foolishness: the sacrifice Jesus made by dying on the cross for our sins and rising from the dead three days later so we can have eternal life with Him. I expanded on this point in my first post in this thread.

The wisdom of God, as that passage concludes, can only be ascertained through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is the only one who can reveal that to you. Every other attempt by everyone who has ever lived has failed because the Creator decides how He wants His truth revealed and embraced, not us.

If your faith makes you feel better stay with it. All I ask is that you don't attempt to inflict it on the rest of us.

 

[arredondo]

If your faith makes you feel better stay with it. All I ask is that you don't attempt to inflict it on the rest of us.

As I said in my first post in this thread, God has given all of us free will. You can choose to reject Him, and spend eternity with the consequences of that unfortunate choice, but if even the Lord won't force you to accept a relationship with Him, how can I be accused of being able to do that?

Just know that on judgement day, along with every single action, word and thought you expressed in your life played back before you in front of God, you will see all the times that He lovingly and patiently reached out to save you from damnation and how you refused each time (if you continue to do so).

If God is not real, then you have nothing to worry about, right? I mean, you'll die one day and disappear into nothingness, and the real "you" as a person will be completely forgotten as less than a blip of existence in the passage of time.

But if what God says in His bible is true, then what He had the apostle write in Philippians 2:10-11 about you and anyone else reading this message must be true as well: every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

The only question is, will your first time bowing your knee and confessing to the Lord to accept His only way for salvation be done here on earth while you still have a chance to do so, or will it be done in the afterlife where immediately afterwards you will be cast into hell for having rejected Him?

 

[JD50]

lol there's no evidence for any of that nonsense.

 

[brycejones]

As I said in my first post in this thread, God has given all of us free will. You can choose to reject Him, and spend eternity with the consequences of that unfortunate choice, but if even the Lord won't force you to accept a relationship with Him, how can I be accused of being able to do that?

Just know that on judgement day, along with every single action, word and thought you expressed in your life played back before you in front of God, you will see all the times that He lovingly and patiently reached out to you save you from damnation and how you refused each time (if you continue to do so).

If God is not real, then you have nothing to worry about, right? I mean, you'll die one day and disappear into nothingness, and the real "you" as a person will be completely forgotten as less than a blip of existence in the passage of time.

But if what God says in His bible is true, then what He had the apostle write in Philippians 2:10-11 about you and anyone else reading this message must be true as well: every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

The only question is, will your first time bowing your knee and confessing to the Lord to accept His only way for salvation be done here on earth while you still have a chance to do so, or will it be done in the afterlife where immediately afterwards you will be cast into hell for having rejected Him?

So you're the religious without being spiritual type. You can believe that all you want. Just keep it out of the secular sphere and we're good.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can see how some people are seeking to be better at being sick but how can you say this is true of all people? How can you be so certain that yin and yang apply to every single thing all the time?

Suppose you were a person who suffered existentially, in black depression and pain leaving aside the possibility there may simply be some forms of depression that are tied up with genetics, or somehow plagued inwardly that something is amiss, like Neo, driven by the Matrix.

In such a case the notion that the resolution of opposites, insight into how to collapse the illusion of duality in which we sleep would or could be of profound value to you. For such a person perhaps the need to know would create a condition where the words I have spoken would sort of click, causing a deeper understanding and a shift in consciousness. I can only tell you in my limited way and limited experience what I can as best I can. I am trying to point at the moon, but the pointing is not the moon.

So I am trying to offer what I can for a person with such a need because I have no questions of that kind any more. I sat in deep misery one night long ago in deep deep thought as to the source of my condition, a big gust of wind hit the house and my suffering ended. There is only timeless being, the nature of which is love. The God I had murdered by doubt returned transformed. Everything I had wished for so childishly from the faith I lost real in a different way.

I thought and think that to be deeply miserable one second and have it disappear in the next was rather a big deal, rather personally convincing as having been a good thing.

So I am rather less interested in being right about opposites apply to everything all the time as I am in suggesting that the integration of opposites at a higher level of understanding lies at the heart of awakening. I offer that opinion in case somebody reading my post is a seeker in pain or need.

Technically, why I think it is true is because we think symbolically with words, words that name things that do not exist, like good and evil. If you can see that one simple fact, that one creates the other in the mind with words and without thought and words they don’t exist, you are home free, but you, the you as ego can’t make that happen. It can only happen to you by grace. It is ego that created separation of the self from paradise. It is a protective mechanism that prevents us from pain, our dearest illusion without which we would hav died not just psychically but physically as children. It will not let go of its own free will.

 

[arredondo]

So you're the religious without being spiritual type. You can believe that all you want. Just keep it out of the secular sphere and we're good.

Religion is following a list of do this and don't do that in order to achieve some ultimate state of peace and/or perfection. The world is filled with religion (secular humanism being one of them... the worship of humanity to achieve nirvana); Christianity is not one of them.

God has put the innate sense of objective moral rights and wrongs in everyone's hearts. We naturally know we ought to do this and we ought not to do that, whether it's lying, stealing, etc. The Lord went beyond this moral compass (often referred to as one's conscience, but is really the Holy Spirit bringing moral truth to our attention) by writing down commandments, statutes, principals, etc. in the bible.

So some look at all of that and say, isn't that proof that Christianity is just another religion? No, because you and I can try all we want to follow what is obvious about rights and wrongs, but we have and will continue to still mess up by INTENTIONALLY breaking any number of God's laws multiple times. Any time we do so, God defines that as a sin, and the consequences for sin is eternal separation from Him in the after life and His sin-free presence in heaven (which can only happen by being cast into hell).

That is why the bible insists over and over and over again that trying to be good to go to heaven, like all the religions out there instruct, is impossible:

~~~~~
James 2:10
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."

Romans 3:10
"As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;"

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
~~~~~

In Christianity, you cannot earn your way into the presence of God. No one can. Following a list of rules (i.e., following a religion) achieves the same end result as one who ignores all of them: eternal damnation. This is because everybody sins and there is only one punishment handed down for doing so even once.

God is not inviting you to follow a religion to go to heaven. He is inviting you into a relationship with Jesus Christ. The one who saw your sentence of death and voluntarily accepted the penalty meant for you. Out of love, He died in your place:

~~~~~
John 15:13
“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."
~~~~~

Because death was so unfairly applied to Him on the cross since He never sinned to earn it, Jesus ended up conquering death and rose again back to life three days later to offer the eternal life He has to you.

That is why a relationship with Jesus saves you... it's a free gift that you only have to accept and it's yours. Imagine an amazing, wonderful wrapped present sitting at your front door with your name on it. Take it and it's yours! Hell will be filled, sadly, with people who simply refused to do so. That's not God's fault since He won't impose a relationship on you if you don't want it.

So you don't have to work at all for salvation. Once you believe in Jesus and the love He has for you, nothing else can keep you from heaven for eternity. How is that religion? He did all the work, but you get the benefits.

 

[arredondo]

lol there's no evidence for any of that nonsense.

The response to that position was covered in this post.

 

[JD50]

The response to that position was covered in this post.

Yea, it was a bunch of nonsense and bible quoting. The bible is the claim, not the evidence, I don't give a fuck about the bible or what it says.

 

[arredondo]

Yea, it was a bunch of nonsense and bible quoting. The bible is the claim, not the evidence, I don't give a fuck about the bible or what it says.

Yet the bible has in its pages a couple of thousand of prophesies that came true, and people like yourself still find excuses not to believe. I mean, Jesus had a three year ministry that tens of thousands of people witnessed firsthand, and at his execution they all scattered away except His friends John and Mary Magdalene as well as His mother who stayed near Him in support. Jesus is clear as to why this happens when He said the following:

~~~~~
John 3:19-20
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
~~~~~

It's not the lack of evidence, internal or external, that is the problem for people who reject God. It is the preference to continue a life filled with sin. The Lord goes out of His way to personally reveal His truth to every single person that has ever lived, including you. As long as there is breath in your lungs, He will continue to pursue a relationship with you.... on HIS terms, not yours.

Again, as the Creator of all it is up to Him how He chooses to make Himself real to you, but each time He does it is then up to you whether or not you will continue to reject anything He sends your way to encourage you to change your heart. That's how free will works, and there are significant, eternal blessings or consequences that come with what you decide.

 

[cytg111]

Yet the bible has in its pages a couple of thousand of prophesies that came true, and people like yourself still find excuses not to believe. I mean, Jesus had a three year ministry that tens of thousands of people witnessed firsthand, and at his execution they all scattered away except His friends John and Mary Magdalene as well as His mother who stayed near Him in support. Jesus is clear as to why this happens when He said the following:

~~~~~
John 3:19-20
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
~~~~~

It's not the lack of evidence, internal or external, that is the problem for people who reject God. It is the preference to continue a life filled with sin. The Lord goes out of His way to personally reveal His truth to every single person that has ever lived, including you. As long as there is breath in your lungs, He will continue to pursue a relationship with you.... on HIS terms, not yours.

Again, as the Creator of all it is up to Him how He chooses to make Himself real to you, but each time He does it is then up to you whether or not you will continue to reject anything He sends your way to encourage you to change your heart. That's how free will works, and there are significant, eternal blessings or consequences that come with what you decide.

And if I follow the teachings of Christ but do not believe in him, any way or form, or his father....... Do I still get entry into heaven?

 

[sportage]

Am I going to hell for starting this thread?

Again, I still want to focus on the irony of it all.
Evangelical Christians...
Donald Trump...
Unholy aliance....
A virus...
The pandemic...
The disbelief...
Why are evangelical christians setting themselves up for the next more deadlier wave?
Do they want to die?
Why are they so blind?
Is science such a bad thing, or Dr Fauci such a bad guy?

For gods sake people, just look at how contagious this thing is. Three weeks ago we had two people diagnosed with Omicron within the United States and now we had some one million positives cases detected just today.
This makes absolutely no sense why christian evangelicals would deny the science of covid. No sense at all. Is the blindness some form of punishment to the church for entering into an unholy alliance with Donald Trump?

When the Trump christian evangelicals realize Trump for what Trump really is, pure evil and a false prophet, then maybe covid and its variants will simply go away. Or as the bible would say... it will pass.

 

[dank69]

Yet the bible has in its pages a couple of thousand of prophesies that came true, and people like yourself still find excuses not to believe. I mean, Jesus had a three year ministry that tens of thousands of people witnessed firsthand, and at his execution they all scattered away except His friends John and Mary Magdalene as well as His mother who stayed near Him in support. Jesus is clear as to why this happens when He said the following:

~~~~~
John 3:19-20
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
~~~~~

Evidence points to Jesus not existing. Evidence shows that his entire story was ripped off from other existing stories to keep the uneducated in line and submissive, and all the educated who were familiar with the source material joked about how easily the uneducated were manipulated by it.

It's not the lack of evidence, internal or external, that is the problem for people who reject God. It is the preference to continue a life filled with sin. The Lord goes out of His way to personally reveal His truth to every single person that has ever lived, including you. As long as there is breath in your lungs, He will continue to pursue a relationship with you.... on HIS terms, not yours.

Again, as the Creator of all it is up to Him how He chooses to make Himself real to you, but each time He does it is then up to you whether or not you will continue to reject anything He sends your way to encourage you to change your heart. That's how free will works, and there are significant, eternal blessings or consequences that come with what you decide.

I refuse to submit to a god that rewards obedience and punishes people that don't kiss his ass.

 

[Jaskalas]

This makes absolutely no sense why christian evangelicals would deny the science of covid. No sense at all.

<Insert strongest laughing gif here>
Humans generally operate on belief. Not logic or reason. Not fact. We choose to believe whatever we want to.

People being and acting insane makes perfect sense. It is just, for a time, our society placed its faith in science. That time has passed. Faith can easily be placed elsewhere. Like on whatever makes me feel good on twitter. Access to information has lead to the empowerment of misinformation, and the balkanization of our society. We had these problems before, but that is like comparing a camp fire to a raging inferno. Unfiltered information has burned us, and burned us badly.

This is a world in which Alex Jones exists. Let that sink it. The implications of that. We are simply back to behaving like the tribal monkeys that we are. Alpha grunts and we smash.

 

[arredondo]

And if I follow the teachings of Christ but do not believe in him, any way or form, or his father....... Do I still get entry into heaven?

It's not a scripture in the bible, but I once read the signature of a random internet poster that essentially says this: "If you would be happy going to heaven even if Jesus wasn't there, you won't be there either."

This is 100% true. You only exist because God created you as a spirit before the universe even came to be (to eventually be born in a body) for an eternal, loving relationship with Him:

~~~~~
John 17:24
"...for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."
~~~~~

But God didn't create you as a puppet, and you're not a robot. Consider how videogame designer Shigeru Miyamoto created Super Mario who will run, crouch, jump whenever you want. The A.I. for robots is getting more advanced all the time to do whatever we program them to do.

The fact that we can accomplish things like that (including manipulate puppets on strings, which goes back thousands of years) proves that it is nothing special to force complete obedience on an entity and call it love. You were not even created as a slave where you were made to "love" the Lord out of force.

Although God loves you more than you can ever know, he wants you to choose to love Him back. Free will is literally the one thing puppet/robot/A.I. inventors can never create on their own. That's the only thing of value you can give back to the One who created you, and He accepts just the smallest evidence of that if you decide with an honest, sincere heart that you want a relationship with Him by accepting His free gift of salvation from damnation.

Your question of an alternative route to heaven doesn't exist, according to the bible. Remember when I said earlier that because of sin everyone is separated from the Father in heaven? Well, the Lord clearly says this about how that can be addressed:

~~~~~
John 14:6
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. '"
~~~~~

Anyone that tries to convince you that all paths go to heaven, no matter what religion, as long as you're a decent person is calling Jesus a liar. Should you read somewhere that in the end, the bible implies that God is too good to send anyone to the lake of fire, toss that book in the trash because Jesus personally talked about hell more than any other topic (because he wants you to avoid it!).

If you think good deeds alone will grant you entry, then you underestimate the perfect holiness of God. He already tried that here on earth and because of sin, people messed it up. What's the point of allowing sin into heaven where the same thing will happen there?

Note that the garden of Eden was perfect, but Adam and Eve chose to defy God and were expelled from His presence. Someone might say: "What's the big deal? They ate the forbidden fruit and God got so mad at them."

A perfect God knows the problem of sin more than you and I. He compares it to yeast (or leaven in the bible) where just a little bit of it expands the entire loaf of bread. Disobeying God is an infection like that.

Every single sin (public or private) contributes to the craziness we have in the world today in its own way. I mean, what's the second sin mentioned in the bible? Their son Cain murdered his brother Abel. So no, sin cannot be allowed into heaven.

Does that mean that true Christians will pollute heaven because of their numerable sins? Not at all. When someone accepts a relationship with Jesus, the two become one like a marriage. At that point, the righteousness of Christ covers that person's sin 100%.

As an analogy, the bible tells us that anyone who is saved goes into heaven not because they are wearing a cloak stained by their filthy deeds, but because they instead are covered with the sin-free cloak of Jesus. Take a look:

~~~~~
Isaiah 64:6
"But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;"

Ezekiel 36:17
“...Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity."
~~~~~

So the bible equates any "good deeds" done by sinners who are apart from Him as being as disgusting and unusable as a woman's menstrual cloths... filthy rags. Al Capone, the notorious Chicago gangster from the 1930s reportedly donated money to schools and hospitals. How effective was that in convincing God to let him into heaven after he died of syphillis in prison?

Jesus told a parable of a wedding feast, which represents how amazing it will be for all Christians once we enter heaven. In the parable, everyone who belonged there received wedding clothes (i.e., the cloak of righteousness of Jesus Christ). Apparently, a man showed up wearing his own clothes... the filthy rags covered in his sins. In the parable, there was nothing the man even tried to say in his own defense because he knew he didn't belong there. Here's what happened to him next:

~~~~~
Matthew 22:13
“Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’"
~~~~~

So no, you cannot enter heaven based on your attempt to perfectly follow the list of do's and dont's. That's religion, not Christianity. On judgement day, God will assess how well you did by replaying all of your actions, words, and extended thoughts to see if you perfectly was able to achieve that throughout your mature life (this event won't occur for the saved person).

Have you ever told a lie? Then you're a liar. Have you ever taken something not yours? Then you're a thief. Have you ever lusted after someone in your heart (that wasn't your spouse)? Then Jesus said this in the Sermon on the Mount:

~~~~~
Matthew 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
~~~~~

All of that will be looked at to see if you can make it in... just know so far only Jesus lived a life without sin. It makes no difference if you admit to only a few of them because the bible tells us:

~~~~~
James 2:10
"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it."
~~~~~

Logically speaking, neither you nor I can keep the law (as it is phrased) without acknowledging God since He is the one who created morality in the first place. The first commandment of the ten brought down by Moses is #1 for a reason:

~~~~~
Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before me."
~~~~~

If you want to know more about the alternative to trying to earn your way into heaven (a religion, which is anti-Christianity) as opposed to accepting a relationship with Jesus through belief alone (the definition of Christianity), I cover more of that in this earlier post of this thread.

 

[IronWing]

"Believe these things I'm telling you but for which I can produce no evidence or enjoy the eternal suffering I have imagined for you." Seems kind of douchebaggy.

 

[arredondo]

Evidence points to Jesus not existing. Evidence shows that his entire story was ripped off from other existing stories to keep the uneducated in line and submissive, and all the educated who were familiar with the source material joked about how easily the uneducated were manipulated by it.

There is more evidence of Jesus Christ's life on earth 2K years ago than there is evidence for the life of Socrates, Homer, and Plato combined (all who were also real, of course). Jesus is the single most well known person of all-time. No one in human history comes close. The bible itself continue to be the most popular book ever written.

In order to make the point that you want to reject Christianity, you feel the need to go to an extreme POV that not even most atheists believe, but it isn't necessary. Simply choosing not to allow Him to be the Lord of your life (even if you were also in church every Sunday as some sadly are) has the same eternal, damning effect.

I refuse to submit to a god that rewards obedience and punishes people that don't kiss his ass.

People in hell are punished with the consequences of their own choices and nothing more.

What is heaven? Ultimately it is in the presence of the Father, who is separated from us because we can't exist with Him due to our sin. His perfect, and pure goodness won't allow sin anywhere near where He is.

What is hell? The absence of God. If anything you can list is objectively good in this life of ours, then it won't exist in hell because all good things only come from Him. If He isn't in hell, nothing good is there either and all of your very senses will suffer as a result:

~ A cool breeze? A comfortable, warm bath? Good health? Not in hell. In the absence of all of these good physical sensations provided even to sinners alive right now due to God's grace, only the most terrible physical sensations one can imagine will exist: burning alive in fire.

~ Beautiful music? A rippling brook? The singing of birds? The laughter of babies? Not in hell. In the absence of all of these good sounds provided even to sinners alive right now due to God's grace, only the most terrible sounds one can imagine will exist: the deep wailing of those who suffer and the gnashing of their teeth.

~ The scent of flowers? Of freshly baked bread? Of a lovely perfume? The taste of your favorite food? Not in hell. In the absence of all of these good smells provided even to sinners alive right now due to God's grace, only the most terrible scents one can imagine will exist: sulfur and brimstone mixed with the burning of human flesh.

~ The sight of a lovely sunrise? Of a beautiful face? Of a rainbow in the sky? Not in hell. In the absence of all of these good visions provided even to sinners alive right now due to God's grace, only the most terrible sights one can imagine will exist: a heavy darkness so deep and pervasive that it will be painful.

The bible tells us that is what's in store for you if you continue to choose to reject God, because you are by extension rejecting everything good that He provides. He's offering it for free, so how is it His fault if you tell Him no?

The amazing thing is, God tells us through His word that heaven is so incredible that mere words can't even describe it:

~~~~~
1 Corinthians 2:9
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
~~~~~

It literally means that even the most creative imagination of any person who has walked the earth cannot think of what's in store for us in heaven. The good things we enjoy on earth will be replaced by many, many, many things that are infinitely better.

So if heaven is far better than we can imagine, then it stands to reason that hell will be infinitely worse as well. We do know, however, what the worst part of the experience in hell will be for anyone who ends up there: knowledge of all the instances where God graciously reached out to you for a relationship and how you rejected Him each and every time. That will be by far the primary source of your eternal suffering unless you change your heart.

So when you say complain about people being punished for not submitting to God, it is far more than that. If you stay on this course, you will go to hell because the Lord will sadly agree with your choice: that you do not want a relationship with Him, and there is only one place where your choice can be granted.

 

[arredondo]

"Believe these things I'm telling you but for which I can produce no evidence or enjoy the eternal suffering I have imagined for you." Seems kind of douchebaggy.

Responses to your position were posted here and here.

 

[Pohemi]

The world is filled with religion (secular humanism being one of them... the worship of humanity to achieve nirvana); Christianity is not one of them.

For a number of your first posts, I saw scripture quotes and subjective explanations which I understood, even if I didn't agree with them.

Then you went and spit out the quoted statement above, and showed a bit more of your actual idiocy. Do you really, truly believe that Christianity is somehow NOT a religion? I'm confused by that notion...I can only imagine that you are confused by it yourself.

 

[IronWing]

Responses to your position were posted here and here.

You haven’t helped your case at all by regurgitating preacher babble. The only person responsible for your beliefs is you and you have chosen to profess that folks who don’t agree with your beliefs (for which you still have provided no evidence) will suffer eternally. By my ethics, for which I accept total responsibility, your position is unethical.

 

[arredondo]

Am I going to hell for starting this thread?

Again, I still want to focus on the irony of it all.
Evangelical Christians...
Donald Trump...
Unholy aliance....
A virus...
The pandemic...
The disbelief...
Why are evangelical christians setting themselves up for the next more deadlier wave?
Do they want to die?
Why are they so blind?
Is science such a bad thing, or Dr Fauci such a bad guy?

For gods sake people, just look at how contagious this thing is. Three weeks ago we had two people diagnosed with Omicron within the United States and now we had some one million positives cases detected just today.
This makes absolutely no sense why christian evangelicals would deny the science of covid. No sense at all. Is the blindness some form of punishment to the church for entering into an unholy alliance with Donald Trump?

When the Trump christian evangelicals realize Trump for what Trump really is, pure evil and a false prophet, then maybe covid and its variants will simply go away. Or as the bible would say... it will pass.

To answer your initial question here, no, you are not going to hell for starting this thread. You would only be going to hell if...

A} ...you disobeyed God in any way shape or form (which everyone has done), to which the penalty is eternal separation from Him through spiritual death, and
B} ...you reject a relationship with Jesus who volunteered to die in your place so that you can eventually be in God's presence in heaven.

Your eternal destination doesn't seem to concern you as much as arguing the debates of the day since you continue to only reference the bible as a way to try to prove political points. Well, let's play out that approach for a bit.

Let's say that one day a lot of the naysayers in this forum agree with you. Your arguments become so convincing that they travel far and wide to convince many others in the country of your incredible insight on all of these political points, and they vow to change their ways to something that you find more acceptable. The good citizens of the U.S. go on to consult you and your great wisdom every time similar political disputes come up and shower you with praise for the solutions you offer to resolve their differences. Decades go by and you peacefully die at a ripe old age, destined to be remembered and celebrated for generations to come.

Then you spend the rest of eternity in hell because of the A} and B} outlined above. God explains your upside down priorities this way in the bible:

~~~~~
Matthew 16:26
"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
~~~~~

Hitting other people over the head with bible verses to make you and your positions appear ethically stronger (as opposed to trying to use them to bring people closer to God) is not unlike what Jesus encountered with the Pharisees a couple of thousands of years ago. They were the legalistic branch of society that spent their days making themselves look morally superior to everyone else by shaming the public with their false interpretations of scripture. Jesus made this observation about them:

~~~~~
Matthew 23:1-5a,12-13
"Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.

They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men...Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in."
~~~~~

The bible is even more specific about the spiritual futility of this approach you've chosen to improperly use God's word to get people to see your version of the light:

~~~~~
1 John 2:9
"Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness."

Romans 2:3
"Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?"
~~~~~

By comparison, here's what it looks like when the Holy Spirit is guiding a saved person in showing another the error of their ways:

~~~~~
James 3:17
"But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere."
~~~~~

Nothing you've posted so far comes close to what that describes, yet you continue to reference the bible as your infallible source for what you speak. That's not the purpose that His word was given to us for. You continue to focus on political things that people have insultingly argued over since the beginning of society, and that approach never produces anything of worth:

~~~~~
Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."
~~~~~

If you truly want to help people, start by letting God help you.

 

[Commodus]

There is more evidence of Jesus Christ's life on earth 2K years ago than there is evidence for the life of Socrates, Homer, and Plato combined (all who were also real, of course). In order to make the point that you want to reject Christianity, you feel the need to go to an extreme POV that not even most atheists believe, but it isn't necessary. Simply choosing not to allow Him to be the Lord of your life (even if you were also in church every Sunday as some sadly are) has the same eternal, damning effect.

History suggests there was probably a man named Jesus at the time. However, there's no evidence that Jesus was a divine figure; remember, even the four core books of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) were written decades after the claimed events by people who definitely weren't eyewitnesses. The main beliefs were decided by committee.

The Bible by itself doesn't serve as evidence without corroborating claims, and I think some Christians forget that. Your argument still boils down to "it's true because I've been told to believe it's true."

Think about it: how would you convince someone to become Christian if they'd never heard of it and weren't already inclined toward it? Simply quoting Bible passages wouldn't do it; they'd point out the raft of scientific evidence that directly contradicts the Bible, ranging from humanity's origins to the response to menstruation to LGBT sexuality. They'd have no rational basis to make the leap, and might be highly reluctant given that it would ask them to suspend critical thinking.

 

[arredondo]

For a number of your first posts, I saw scripture quotes and subjective explanations which I understood, even if I didn't agree with them.

Then you went and spit out the quoted statement above, and showed a bit more of your actual idiocy. Do you really, truly believe that Christianity is somehow NOT a religion? I'm confused by that notion...I can only imagine that you are confused by it yourself.

I completely understand your reaction, but no, I'm not confused at all by what I said. Let me try to explain it this way...

If the God described in the holy bible is not real, then yes, Christianity is simply one of any other of religions out there. That is, here's a book written by a bunch of men that focuses on someone that gave out some helpful tips for living a better life and becoming good people.

My statement that Christianity isn't a religion but instead is a relationship is based on the alternative possibility: that the God described in the holy bible is real. If so, then He wrote the scriptures (through chosen men over time) and He defined how one can live forever in heaven.

The word of God does not describe a process of following rules to achieve that goal. In fact, He says the opposite - that no one can follow all the rules and is therefore too unclean with sin to enter heaven where sin in His presence is not allowed. It's already devasted life on earth, so why should God permit it to defile heaven too? Society and civilation would be right back in this sorrowful state of existance that we've endured to this very day.

Instead, God provided a way for salvation from sin that does not require that anyone strive for some type of perfection/nirvana/destination of bliss though the impossible task following a list of good deeds to perform while avoiding bad deeds to avoid. That is the definition of every religion ever dreamed up by mankind.

Then what is the way for salvation? That way is Jesus Christ (John 14:6). He isn't a religion, he is a person. A person that is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). Since neither you nor I can get into heaven because of the sins we committed, God sent His Son to pay the price that you and I earned - death on the cross in the place of our death in hell. That is a gift that one only has to accept (not work hard to earn it), and it is theirs forever. In simplest terms, it is accepting a relationship with the One who died to save you:

~~~~~
Romans 10:9
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
~~~~~

I pointed out in an earlier post that one reason why the Lord cannot simply excuse people from the penalty of death for their sins and let them into heaven is because He would then not be a just judge. There would always be someone who would correctly be able to say, "Judge Talbot is a more perfect judge than God because she always administered justice according to the letter of the law."

That can't happen, so because God Himself said that the penalty for defying him is death (Genesis 2:17), the law must be followed without exception. To try and do so is to pursue religion, and that's the sad news because no one lives up to the perfection required of God's law.

But here's the good news, which is a phrase that is the literal definition of the word "gospel". The good news is, that not only is the Lord perfect in judgment, He is also perfect in mercy:

~~~~~
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
~~~~~

So it is also impossible for anyone to say, "Judge Ennico is a more merciful judge than God because he always provided a way for the guilty to escape the sentence of their wicked deeds." God did do that when Jesus died on the cross and rose three days later, and did so without imposing religion on a person (follow the do's and don's) to acquire salvation.

Just believe in Jesus with an honest heart, an unbreakable relationship will be instantly established, and salvation is eternally yours. It couldn't be any easier, and is available to every single person without exception.

That's how God defines Christianity, not me. It is a relationship that allows one to escape hell and be allowed into heaven, not a history of good deeds performed (religion). You asked if I believe all of this, my answer is yes, which is why I already know with certainty that one day I will go to be with the Lord.