Is god pissed?

[Moonbeam]

Christianity, and every other religion, is all about the same thing.

CONTROL, pure unquestionable control of others... but the side gig that control offers is not ignored, in fact it is motivation to further exert control... PROFITS... and at least in this country tax-free profits.

Which of course is why the words attributed to Christ in the Bible are all about how to use mind control power to become the richest King on Earth instead of Him dying on the cross so you could know your worthless and guilt ridden ass is loved and all your sins forgiven.

It is a gift I can’t bring myself to feel worthy of, unfortunately, but do you see that your desire to throw it back in the face of others who want to believe in it only actualities your suspicions? It looks to me like hate and bitterness. I have enough of that for myself and see in myself a desire to spread it around. I don’t happen to like that about myself. Do you?

 

[MtnMan]

Which of course is why the words attributed to Christ in the Bible are all about how to use mind control power to become the richest King on Earth instead of Him dying on the cross so you could know your worthless and guilt ridden ass is loved and all your sins forgiven.

It is a gift I can’t bring myself to feel worthy of, unfortunately, but do you see that your desire to throw it back in the face of others who want to believe in it only actualities your suspicions? It looks to me like hate and bitterness. I have enough of that for myself and see in myself a desire to spread it around. I don’t happen to like that about myself. Do you?

Self deprecation is also part of the plan to control the individual... makes unquestioned control much easier.

 

[Moonbeam]

Last time I looked motherfuckers used god to put Trump in office.

I dont believe in evil… But of I did this would qualify.

How many men have gone to war and done unspeakable things only to go home and receive forgiveness from the holy spirit himself in the name of all that is good and pure.

The good in us cannot must not come from god church or priest. Its the road to hell paved with bullshit intentions.

If you believe that God is perfect and that nothing can happen except by His will, that everything that happens exactly as it must, then you would see, it seems to me, the true nature of evil, your own sense that things could be better. The last thing it seems that we want to do is to accept Gods will and the first thing we do with religion is to bend it to our will. In this way we create evil where none exists. Only the surrendered are free or maybe a few who have no will of their own and can only act on His. I would say Jesus from the echos still preserved in His words was such a god-man.

I hear good intentions in your warning but I fail to make the assumption I know all of the ways from which wisdom springs. Are you sure there is nothing to be had from God church or priest? Years ago I got to know the janitor of a Catholic Church I would walk by every day. We went to the same coffee shop. He told me his job was to keep the priests from falling asleep. I remembering him watering the flowers and spraying the kids on with his hose as they went screaming down the sidewalk into the gate to the Catholic school. The being joy he manifested was so far beyond anything I can muster. His surrender and humility were such as to my mind that his faith and his life were one and the same thing.

But then again I am maybe just weird. I wonder some times if I am the only person alive today with a similar remembrance of him. I used to have coffee sometimes with God who was working as a janitor of a church I used to pass by who was on an undercover job to keep the priests there awake. What a wonderful world this is. You just never know where God will shine forth. I met Him again here in LunarRay.

 

[Moonbeam]

Self deprecation is also part of the plan to control the individual... makes unquestioned control much easier.

Especially in those who are unaware and in denial they feel it.

 

[cytg111]

If you believe that God is perfect and that nothing can happen except by His will, that everything that happens exactly as it must, then you would see, it seems to me, the true nature of evil, your own sense that things could be better. The last thing it seems that we want to do is to accept Gods will and the first thing we do with religion is to bend it to our will. In this way we create evil where none exists. Only the surrendered are free or maybe a few who have no will of their own and can only act on His. I would say Jesus from the echos still preserved in His words was such a god-man.

I hear good intentions in your warning but I fail to make the assumption I know all of the ways from which wisdom springs. Are you sure there is nothing to be had from God church or priest? Years ago I got to know the janitor of a Catholic Church I would walk by every day. We went to the same coffee shop. He told me his job was to keep the priests from falling asleep. I remembering him watering the flowers and spraying the kids on with his hose as they went screaming down the sidewalk into the gate to the Catholic school. The being joy he manifested was so far beyond anything I can muster. His surrender and humility were such as to my mind that his faith and his life were one and the same thing.

But then again I am maybe just weird. I wonder some times if I am the only person alive today with a similar remembrance of him. I used to have coffee sometimes with God who was working as a janitor of a church I used to pass by who was on an undercover job to keep the priests there awake. What a wonderful world this is. You just never know where God will shine forth. I met Him again here in LunarRay.

Yes Im sure.
Telling kids, age what, 5-7 years old, that about that magic man in the sky, that is something they must come to terms with on their own... is outright mindrape. Why would you do that to a kids mind?
But here we go. That we do.

 

[MtnMan]

Especially in those who are unaware and in denial they feel it.

Fairy tale characters don't scare me... irrational people that believe in them do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Would you believe in Paris if none who set off for Paris ever came back to tell the tale? Would you believe in Paris if those who say there is a Paris also say that you must die (really die, like dead dead) to see it yet aren't too keen on going first? Would you believe in Paris if those who say there is a Paris also told you that you must hate yourself utterly in order to perceive Paris?

BTW, conflating the heaven of Sufism with the heaven of Paul is beyond my tolerance level for bullshit.

I see you are still confusing me with a person of religious faith. I am not a person of religious faith. I have told you that for me the notion that there is a God, a god spoken of in religion is the result of people having experienced a God conscious state. That God conscious state is what lies across the bridge that religion is supposed to help people cross. What helps them to do this is faith. Others cross without it. But if you have crossed you are no longer just a person of faith. You know what the experience of God-Consciousness is. The only thing that dies was ego. This is the Paris I speak of. People go there all the time and are right here among us. You are so wound up by the stupidities of various religions you have become deaf. What you believe to be realities like heaven and hell are just metaphores for thing you can't know without experiencing a God-Conscious state. In such a state all those silly words and concepts make perfect sense and certainly have nothing to do with what you imagine they do. It is important for people of faith to take them literally. It helps them cross. That just isn't a path that is suitable for you. What is funny, however, is watching you rave like a mad man against something as absurd as your make believe version of religion. You managed to grow up about Santa Clause without shooting believing children every year on Christmas Day. Grow the fuck up about religion and leave the faithful relax their grip on their bridge. You and your ravers make them cling harder. The idea is to cross.

Mulla Nasrudin went for a walk with a disciple. A strangely dressed Dervish appeared at some distance and when he say the Mulla pointed at the sky saying to him, there is one truth and it covers everybody. He's mad thought the disciple. The Mulla held up a rope to reply, and ordinary humanity tries to reach it by means as ridiculous ans climbing into the sky with a rope. Good said the disciple, if he tries anything funny we will tie him up.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fairy tale characters don't scare me... irrational people that believe in them do.

Yes and now you should know that irrational people always imagine it's somebody else who is insane, never themselves, hint hint.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes Im sure.
Telling kids, age what, 5-7 years old, that about that magic man in the sky, that is something they must come to terms with on their own... is outright mindrape. Why would you do that to a kids mind?
But here we go. That we do.

You were put in the same invisible cage long before that age. That's why this upsets you so. You are a good person who does not want others to suffer from pain you yourself do not remember. It lies at the root of our rage but no amount of acting out that rage on others will ever undo a single lash of it. It's like Jesus taught, I think, you have to both die and forgive at the same time. Then you can know, I think, what heaven is. My teacher used to say some times, with a huge smile on his face. Come in, the water is fine.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes and now you should know that irrational people always imagine it's somebody else who is insane, never themselves, hint hint.

What really scares you is an awareness you can have that you actually know nothing and all of your fears are the result of imagining otherwise.

 

[dank69]

I'm never happy when we talk about symptoms. I want to know why why why. I guess somehow you are sui generous and reflect nothing of the laws of nature. I kind of thought that several hundred million years of mammalian evolution in parental care on top of your reptile brain and several million years of frontal lobe evolution additionally might have built in that empathy you find so satisfying in a way that makes you feel pleasure to expressing it to your fellow human beings more generally. Religion just affirms we we create god and hopefully the world in our deepest self image or visa versa since it isn't possible to say for sure.

We all want to know why why why but perhaps we are not meant to know until we are dead or perhaps we are not meant to know at all.

 

[Moonbeam]

We all want to know why why why but perhaps we are not meant to know until we are dead or perhaps we are not meant to know at all.

Dead, or just dead to ego. Some say the latter is the only death that matters since and is also possible to live to refer to as some sort of altered state, one that carries with it the notion that suddenly one has become real again. Only one who tastes knows for sure.

 

[dank69]

Dead, or just dead to ego. Some say the latter is the only death that matters since and is also possible to live to refer to as some sort of altered state, one that carries with it the notion that suddenly one has become real again. Only one who tastes knows for sure.

People say lots of things. I'm going to eat a strawberry.

 

[arredondo]

Seems he doesn't really care about Jesus much anyway, his great hero is Paul.

The strange idea you're presenting is that Paul and Jesus of the bible have different messages for different people. Nothing could be further from the truth. The entire bible, from the first book of Genesis to the final book of Revelation, is represented by Jesus Himself:

~~~~~
John 1:1-5
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it."
~~~~~

The rest of that chapter goes on to identify Him as Jesus, so we know it is describing Him specifically. So then, if Jesus is represented by the bible in its entirety, then what role does Paul (or any of the other writers of the scriptures) have to do with it? They were chosen to write down what the Holy Spirit led them to write:

~~~~~
2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
~~~~~

Paul had a lot of other letters and writings that were not made a part of the bible. Is it because they were wicked or false or anything like that? No. It is because God decided what writings would be used to represent the word of God... which, as explained above, represents Jesus Christ. Any Paul-only writings are not included at all.

So why in the world would anyone try to separate Paul and Jesus in a way to suggest that the bible has them competing against one another? I mean, Paul goes out of his way to emphasize how much authority he gives to Jesus over his life. Here's one of MANY examples of that, where in this case he writes to a Christian church in Rome expressing his desire to visit them:

~~~~~
Romans 1:9-10
For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you, always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you."
~~~~~

Paul explicitly expressed in those verses his primary act of service for God: preaching the good news (gospel) of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Even what could've been a simple side statement about wanting to meet with his Christian friends in Rome, he goes out of his way to give full reverence to the Lord while doing so.

So if Paul is declaring that his life is all about serving Jesus and spreading His gospel, the suggested conflict between the two has to be found in a false interpretation of the bible. All of the books written by Paul (almost half of the new testament) are in complete harmony with the rest of the bible, which again represents in its entirety Jesus Christ (stated in John 1:1 above), while providing further explanation for us all as to what God's plan is for our lives. Ultimately, the bible is just one book with one author.

So what false interpretation are you suggesting pits Paul against his stated Lord and Master?

 

[arredondo]

Your post suggests that I'm trying to convince you God is real. I can't do that... only God can make Himself real to you. He approaches each person in different ways that are always rooted in His word, as I expressed in this post. As I said earlier, I am only pointing out what He has already said about various things brought up in this thread, making corrections and observations as I go.

The real "conversation" is not between you and me, but ultimately between you and the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart about God's incredible love for you, His desire to bless you in this life, and His effort to not see you separated from Him in hell for eternity in the next one:

~~~~~
1 Peter 5:7
"Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you."

Numbers 6:24-26
"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his face upon you and give you peace."

Isaiah 30:18
"Therefore the Lord longs to be gracious to you, and therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you. For the Lord is a God of justice; how blessed are all those who long for Him."

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
~~~~~

 

[arredondo]

YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE TO PROVE THE BIBLE. YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE TO PROVE THE BIBLE.

You are engaged in a circular fallacy. Jesus is real. How do we know he is real? Its in the bible! The events are real. How dio we know? Its in the bible! That's a circular fallacy. The bible is the claim. Its not the proof. To prove your points you need at the least 3rd party sources for which you have none. And again, if we allowed you to use the bible as proof, we'd have to take Muslim and Hindu scripture as proof as well. Why? Because it's in their holy books. BTW, Muslims believe that the bible was corrupted and the Quarn is the only true holy book. And, if you don't follow the Quarn you are doomed for hell which a few Muslims have told me.

So, lets look at what we know so far.

1) The telling of Jesus life after his death was strictly oral for the first 40-50 years. What we have is a game of telephone. If I told you about a guy named Jesus, and you told 24 others, and those 24 tell 569 and those 569 tell 54097, and those 54097 tell 457609, and so on... For 40- 50 years we'd have misformation, lies, deciet, untruths, misunderstanding, and so forth. I can't tell you what I had for lunch last week, let alone 20 years ago.

2) The gospels are unanimous. The names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were names given by the church. They were also written in Greece and by well educated Greek scholars. Jesus and his followers were poor peasants, and who were fishermen and goat herders. They couldn't read or write. Which was very common back then since only the wealthy had access to education. They also spoke Aramaic. Again, the gopels were written in Greek. Far awar from the original source. And, the sources of jesus life that these Greek scholars were working with were 2nd and 3rd hand accounts. The original people who were followers of Jesus had already passed since the life expectancy was about 35 years old in ancient times.

3) The gopels for the most part aren't to be trusted. There were alterations. Lines added. Lines taken out. Contridictions are very evident. Matthew blantly copies Mark. I'm not going to go over all of this, but Bart Erhman (New Testament scholar) does a wonderful job on this. For example, Jesus never called himself God. That was a Christian invention. Bart Erhman explains...

"In Mark's Gospel, Jesus is not interested in teaching about himself. But when you read John's Gospel, that's virtually the only thing Jesus talks about is who he is, what his identity is, where he came from," Ehrman says. "This is completely unlike anything that you find in Mark or in Matthew and Luke. And historically it creates all sorts of problems, because if the historical Jesus actually went around saying that he was God, it's very hard to believe that Matthew, Mark and Luke left out that part — you know, as if that part wasn't important to mention. But in fact, they don't mention it. And so this view of the divinity of Jesus on his own lips is found only in our latest Gospel, the Gospel of John."

4) Jesus never spoke about hell. That again is a Christian concept born out of the Greek comedy, Dante's Inferno. Jesus was Jewish. They don't believe in the type of afterlife that you were indoctrinated in. Many biblical historians now believe that Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher. He spoke of the end times that would happen during his lifetime.The concept of hell came later when more gentiles were coming into Christanity. You also have to remember that Christanity was a new religion at that time, and what's a good way to bring people into church? Scare them into believing that hell awaits if they don't convert from their pagen religious beliefs and into Christanity.

5) Even the resurrection has major issues. For one, we don't have 500 people who witnessed jesus rising from the dead. We have one person who claims that he saw 500 people who witnessed jesus rising. Big difference. Why don't we have the accounts of every person who witnessed the resurrection. If it was such a major event, and jeus was put on this earth for the sins of mankind, why don't we have these seperate accounts of his rising? Which brings me to my last part...

6) Jesus life, the bible, the Jewish/Christian god and the players involved were all located in one tiny area in the Middle East. If god is all powerful, all loving and all knowing than why didn't he spread his message uniformly? To every culture and to every continent on the planet. But he didn't, did he? Instead we have people like you who want to fear monger others into believing your religious belief, or else hell awaits. Why didn't the Asians, Native Americans, Africans, get this important message of salvation. Instead, Christanity has a very dark past. It was spread via warfare, forced indoctrination, slavery and colonilism by the European powers at that time: France, Spain and England. They took the concept of Christanity and made it evil. And the Christian God did absolutely nothing. He let hundreds of millions of indigiousn people perish forever. And, that's because he doesn't exist.

Just a quick note: I do believe in the historical jesus. There was probably a man named jesus. We have a few outside text (non-biblical) that address him. Paul mentiones jesus. But, was he devine? There is no evidence to suggest that he was the son of god. Nothing that is outside the bible. I'm a Buiddhist. In later cannons of the Buddha's life they have him healing the sick, and flying off to different cities within India, etc. This is why we need to use critical thought and not believe everything when presented to us.

Bart Erhman on Hell:

The Evidence for Jesus is Worse than you Think:

You don't have to try to convince me of your complete rejection of God. As I said above, ultimately that foolish approach is between you and the Holy Spirit who will continue to try to persuade you to change your heart until your dying day (well, until the first death at least). It's not even me that calls your write-up foolishness... the Lord says that about you personally:

~~~~~
Psalm 53:1
The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.
~~~~~

To be honest, while you struggle in your heart about your Creator, I doubt you even believe all that you posted. These are your words: "Jesus never spoke about hell." Seriously?

The single most famous verse in the entire bible, John 3:16, explains that out of love for everyone in the world, God sent Jesus to die for your sins so that you won't spend eternity in hell because of the wickedness of the life you've led... and that's just one of many, many quotes from Jesus that references eternal separation from God (which is the ultimate definition of hell):

~~~~~
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

Matthew 7:13
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it."

Matthew 7:19
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Matthew 10:28
“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew13:40
"Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age."

Matthew 13:42
"...and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Matthew 22:13
"Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 23:15
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."

Matthew 23:33
"Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

Matthew 25:30
"...and cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41
"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'"

Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched."

Mark 9:45
"And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched."

Mark 9:47
"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire."

Luke 10:15
"And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to hell."

Luke 12:5
"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!"

Mark 9:47-48
"...to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 12:40
"...who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation."

Luke 13:3
"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."

John 5:29
"...and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
~~~~~

That addresses just one false claim you posted. The words of Jesus refutes it, and I didn't even include every single reference!

You don't have to try to boldly declare your resistance to God, if that's your goal. Due to free will that He has given all of us, if you don't want a relationship with Him, your decision will be honored and you will be separated from God forever. Do know that you invite His wrath to engulf you if this is your chosen path in life:

~~~~~
Romans 1:18-32
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Claiming to be wise, they became fools."
~~~~~

 

[Commodus]

Your post suggests that I'm trying to convince you God is real. I can't do that... only God can make Himself real to you. He approaches each person in different ways that are always rooted in His word, as I expressed in this post. As I said earlier, I am only pointing out what He has already said about various things brought up in this thread, making corrections and observations as I go.

The real "conversation" is not between you and me, but ultimately between you and the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart about God's incredible love for you, His desire to bless you in this life, and His effort to not see you separated from Him in hell for eternity in the next one:

~~~~~
1 Peter 5:7
"Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you."

Numbers 6:24-26
"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his face upon you and give you peace."

Isaiah 30:18
"Therefore the Lord longs to be gracious to you, and therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you. For the Lord is a God of justice; how blessed are all those who long for Him."

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
~~~~~

I'll be frank: if you're not trying to convince us God is real, why bother posting? You're not accomplishing anything, and might even run afoul of forum policies (for pointless or hit-and-run posts); we already have strong logic- and evidence-based retorts; you're also unwilling to conduct any self-examination, so you're only interested in a one-way conversation.

This is one of the reasons I became non-religious, in fact. You see your worth mainly in how many Bible verses you can quote, and otherwise how closely you stick to the script(ure). I see someone who's losing the ability to think for themselves, to question authority, to even present their own identity. You should be wary of anyone or any institution that asks you to shut your brain off.

 

[cytg111]

Your post suggests that I'm trying to convince you God is real. I can't do that... only God can make Himself real to you. He approaches each person in different ways that are always rooted in His word, as I expressed in this post. As I said earlier, I am only pointing out what He has already said about various things brought up in this thread, making corrections and observations as I go.

The real "conversation" is not between you and me, but ultimately between you and the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart about God's incredible love for you, His desire to bless you in this life, and His effort to not see you separated from Him in hell for eternity in the next one:

~~~~~
1 Peter 5:7
"Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you."

Numbers 6:24-26
"The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his face upon you and give you peace."

Isaiah 30:18
"Therefore the Lord longs to be gracious to you, and therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you. For the Lord is a God of justice; how blessed are all those who long for Him."

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
~~~~~

You know I think I prefer Satanism.
Yea if I'd have to choose, it'd be Satanism hands down.

Think about it for a second, the patriarchy that is heaven, god and all his angels, gods word is infallible, do as he says no questions asked OR ELSE.
Here comes along the character morning star, and for his curiosity he is cast out of heaven to fend for himself. He lost his family but gained freedom. Freedom of oppression.

Within the framework of the satanic, I can chose to do good upon others without judgement from my religious betters. Of anyone in fact. I can also chose to punish those who wreck bullshit onto others.

I must say, I like this freedom part quite a bit. Sign me up for the apple.

 

[cytg111]

You were put in the same invisible cage long before that age. That's why this upsets you so. You are a good person who does not want others to suffer from pain you yourself do not remember. It lies at the root of our rage but no amount of acting out that rage on others will ever undo a single lash of it. It's like Jesus taught, I think, you have to both die and forgive at the same time. Then you can know, I think, what heaven is. My teacher used to say some times, with a huge smile on his face. Come in, the water is fine.

There is only the cage of my quantum self and even that is uncertain.

You fail to realize yourself as an observer, an observer amongst another billion or so observers that has observed this Jesus narrative and come up with something that resonates within the walls of your own skull.
Isnt it pretty arrogant on your part to just flat out assume you're the one that got it right? I could argue that the premise for the experiment is in err, how can you hope to conjure anything meaningful to the nature of the universe, the human condition if the seed is a fairy tale? Its bonkers. What Jesus must have felt. Taught. Thought. Probably the same as that Boar in the animated Lion King flick.

 

[MtnMan]

Your post suggests that I'm trying to convince you God is real. I can't do that... only God can make Himself real to you. He approaches each person in different ways that are always rooted in His word, as I expressed in this post. As I said earlier, I am only pointing out what He has already said about various things brought up in this thread, making corrections and observations as I go.

The real "conversation" is not between you and me, but ultimately between you and the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart about God's incredible love for you, His desire to bless you in this life, and His effort to not see you separated from Him in hell for eternity in the next one:

This imaginary "he" you talk about ain't said shit, no more so than Santa said ho ho ho. If some spirit is 'speaking to you', you are hallucinating. But given that many were being trained about this 'spirit' long before they were ever taught about potty training, it is not surprising.

Young children were not taught about morals and right and wrong, their behavior was just being controlled by the threat of punishment by this wrathful being, and doubled down in December with the threat of coal in your stocking because now imaginary Santa was also "watching". That's not parenting, that merely is controlling behavior through fear.

 

[Pohemi]

Your post suggests that I'm trying to convince you God is real.

All of your many rambling posts suggest you're a complete imbecile.

Not for your religious beliefs or seeming fanaticism...

No, it is for your constant self-contradiction and circular reasoning. You have no basis in reality when you believe that the bible was actually proof-read, edited and approved by "God".

Seen more than enough of your type to know that you will not come to your senses. You're nothing but a bible-thumper pretending to be worldly and open-minded, when it's actually all just bullshit.

 

[Commodus]

Hey folks, be nice. You won't persuade a devout religious person to change by lashing into them and possibly reinforcing a belief that non-religious people are amoral and vicious. Use logic; use evidence; you don't have to flatter, but do show that you can be non-religious while maintaining some baseline respect.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is only the cage of my quantum self and even that is uncertain.

You fail to realize yourself as an observer, an observer amongst another billion or so observers that has observed this Jesus narrative and come up with something that resonates within the walls of your own skull.
Isnt it pretty arrogant on your part to just flat out assume you're the one that got it right? I could argue that the premise for the experiment is in err, how can you hope to conjure anything meaningful to the nature of the universe, the human condition if the seed is a fairy tale? Its bonkers. What Jesus must have felt. Taught. Thought. Probably the same as that Boar in the animated Lion King flick.

This is the repertoire of a prisoner who can't see his prison, the shadows that flicker on the wall of Plato's cave. And when told there is a world outside that casts shadows they think are reality, they aren't interested. As I said, you seem not to have a seeker's need. That need can't come from me. I have tried to offer you some words to suggest there is more in heaven and earth than your philosophy encompasses, but more I cannot do, but I am happy to try.

As to your comments you start with how arrogant I must be to value my opinion in a sea of other opinions all of a different nature and end up telling me what Jesus probably really felt. You tell me there is a million views of a glass of wine and I agree, but also it is a glass from which I have drunk. I have the object of taste and the tongue that can taste it and the experience of bringing the object to the taste buds but I can never with words cause you to taste the wine. The only way a single person can know the effects of wine on the tongue and later the experience of intoxication is for that single person to drink it. Nobody can drink it for you or prove it has an effect.

When you tell a person who has experienced a God-Conscious state that no such state exists all you are saying is that no such state has been experienced by you. You fail to realize yourself as an observer, an observer amongst another billion or so observers that has observed this Jesus narrative and come up with something that resonates within the walls of your own skull. Isn't it pretty arrogant on your part to just flat out assume you're the one that got it right? I could argue that the premise for the experiment is in err, how can you hope to conjure anything meaningful to the nature of the universe, the human condition if the seed is a fairy tale? Its bonkers. It is a fool who pretends to be a cognoscente who has not tasted.

 

[MtnMan]

Hey folks, be nice. You won't persuade a devout religious person to change by lashing into them and possibly reinforcing a belief that non-religious people are amoral and vicious. Use logic; use evidence; you don't have to flatter, but do show that you can be non-religious while maintaining some baseline respect.

These people are logic and evidence proof. Religion creates in impermeable protective layer against them. Remember, religion is always saying "don't question" to the point of calling it a sin.

Actually talk to, or read how former believers became atheist/agnostic, it is almost exclusively because they began to question (often due to the abuse suffered in the name of religion) the bull shit that has been blown up their ass, often starting while a diaper was still covering their ass.

You are right, nothing I say will change their views, but they are such an extreme danger to society that I cannot and will not remain silent. Do you not see the connection between these views, and the current Trump manics?

 

[Moonbeam]

Hey folks, be nice. You won't persuade a devout religious person to change by lashing into them and possibly reinforcing a belief that non-religious people are amoral and vicious. Use logic; use evidence; you don't have to flatter, but do show that you can be non-religious while maintaining some baseline respect.

But but but it is not a fact that religion is profoundly dangerous, or at least what people call religion is. Doesn't that call for being upset?

Edit: This was written and interrupted in posting before MtnMan posted the one above me that makes a similar point.