Is Half Life 2 overrated?

[DarkKnightDude]

Now its pretty average, but when it came out it was absolutely astonishing. The graphics were fantastic and awesome gameplay mechanics. The reason why today it seems a bit stale is because every linear shooter has copied it to death.

 

[shadow9d9]

Now its pretty average, but when it came out it was absolutely astonishing. The graphics were fantastic and awesome gameplay mechanics. The reason why today it seems a bit stale is because every linear shooter has copied it to death.

Graphics... Yeah, to me, that does not make an actual game good.

What "awesome gameplay mechanics" were in the game outside of the gimmick specific to that game-the gravity gun?

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Graphics... Yeah, to me, that does not make an actual game good.

What "awesome gameplay mechanics" were in the game outside of the gimmick specific to that game-the gravity gun?

How is that a gimmick? The gravity gun is essential to the game. It was revolutionary because in most if not all games all objects were static, but Half Life 2 changed that. It introduced gameplay based around physics. You could interact with the the environment. When I first played that 10 years ago, that concept was mind boggling.

Also has fantastic facial animations for its time, but that's graphics, sorry I didn't realize it didn't count.

The audio was great too for its time. Had some awesome sound design. Going through Ravenholm especially demonstrated the sound design. AI was also pretty good, even took cover and tried to flank you, though can't say it was amazing.

It was probably one of the first games, if not the first to introduce more cinematic feel to its story, with the cutscenes done where it seems you're just silent. Sto9ry was excellent.

The gunplay was really solid and had decent punch (shotgun was my favorite weapon of use besides the gravity gun).

Like I said, it only seems average/boring now because every single linear game has copied it to death. I remember playing this a decade ago and it was well loved, though steam wasn't lol. People saying this is boring and terrible don't seem to appreciate the technology and visuals behind it for its time. But, whatever suits yourselves. Like it or not, it was amazing for its time and its influences are everywhere, though I doubt Valve can pull it off for a third game, if that ever comes out.

 

[shadow9d9]

How is that a gimmick? The gravity gun is essential to the game. It was revolutionary because in most if not all games all objects were static, but Half Life 2 changed that. It introduced gameplay based around physics. You could interact with the the environment. When I first played that 10 years ago, that concept was mind boggling.

Also has fantastic facial animations for its time, but that's graphics, sorry I didn't realize it didn't count.

The audio was great too for its time. Had some awesome sound design. Going through Ravenholm especially demonstrated the sound design. AI was also pretty good, even took cover and tried to flank you, though can't say it was amazing.

It was probably one of the first games, if not the first to introduce more cinematic feel to its story, with the cutscenes done where it seems you're just silent. Sto9ry was excellent.

The gunplay was really solid and had decent punch (shotgun was my favorite weapon of use besides the gravity gun).

Like I said, it only seems average/boring now because every single linear game has copied it to death. I remember playing this a decade ago and it was well loved, though steam wasn't lol. People saying this is boring and terrible don't seem to appreciate the technology and visuals behind it for its time. But, whatever suits yourselves. Like it or not, it was amazing for its time and its influences are everywhere, though I doubt Valve can pull it off for a third game, if that ever comes out.

Gimmick= "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business." That is what it was to me. Cute at first, but its cuteness only lasts so long.

You liked movie cutscenes, which aren't gameplay.

I'm not sure what "gunplay being solid" means. How was the "gunplay" any different from games that came before? Counter-strike, NOLF 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, etc.

As for why graphics don't determine if a game is good or not, well. If that were the case, then every new game will be a better "game" than the last.

 

[Topweasel]

You want me to "own up" to your opinion. Hilarious.

I came into this thread because it asked a question that I could answer. I did. Time to stop crying about it.

No one cares what your assumptions are. They are strawmen. They lead you to the conclusion that you already decided. Your made up concoctions cannot be used as factual evidence. Your made up thoughts definitely, in no way whatsoever, invalidate my opinion.

My opinion? Concoctions? Weren't those your own words? I didn't make them up.

What am I straw manning? One person asked why you came in here to make your statement. I agreed with him since I remembered our conversation in the Hardline thread. That's it. If your offended that I called your words as demeaning, maybe you need "thicker skin" to be able to take some criticism. Because that is exactly what your words were.

The fact that you don't see how your hatred of SP FPS invalidates your opinion I might never understand. It would be one thing if it was the other way around, you hate SP FPS's but this was the one that got to you. But as a hater of SP FPS and disliking this game as well offers nothing. Because of course you don't like it. You hate the whole genre.

Like a Movie critic stating he hates comedies and then goes on to rip into a new Comedy and its viewers. After that he volunteers his dislike of Animal House and uses it as a platform to reiterate his hatred for comedies. Even if there are points of criticism and legitimate issues with Animal house the Critics opinion on the matter of whether its a classic comedy is invalidated by his hatred of the genre.

 

[shadow9d9]

My opinion? Concoctions? Weren't those your own words? I didn't make them up.

What am I straw manning? One person asked why you came in here to make your statement. I agreed with him since I remembered our conversation in the Hardline thread. That's it. If your offended that I called your words as demeaning, maybe you need "thicker skin" to be able to take some criticism. Because that is exactly what your words were.

The fact that you don't see how your hatred of SP FPS invalidates your opinion I might never understand. It would be one thing if it was the other way around, you hate SP FPS's but this was the one that got to you. But as a hater of SP FPS and disliking this game as well offers nothing. Because of course you don't like it. You hate the whole genre.

Like a Movie critic stating he hates comedies and then goes on to rip into a new Comedy and its viewers. After that he volunteers his dislike of Animal House and uses it as a platform to reiterate his hatred for comedies. Even if there are points of criticism and legitimate issues with Animal house the Critics opinion on the matter of whether its a classic comedy is invalidated by his hatred of the genre.

"You already have decided that it was crap like the other 99% of SP FPS's, it's a type of game you detest in the first place. Does that kind of invalidate your opinion on the matter?"- This is an assumption. HL2 came out 10 years ago. You have absolutely no idea when I decided to write off single player fpss as being the same. Your whole argument was based on this fallacy.

I'm not offended whatsoever. I think the desperation in your posts are funny. YOU, on the other hand, are the one that claimed my opinions are "demeaning." You took offense. Don't try to accuse me of the same using false equivalence. You made something up.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Gimmick= "a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business." That is what it was to me. Cute at first, but its cuteness only lasts so long.

Gravity gun is a gimmick in Half life 2 which is based around physics and interactivity of the environment....sure, whatever you say. Just keep telling yourself that.

Reading the other posts, I realized that I'm arguing with a single player FPS hater, oh well. I like both single player games and multiplayer games, though its dependent on quality and how entertaining it is. Many multiplayer games have been ruined by their playerbase sadly. At least in a single player game nobody will start screaming at you over VOIP that your a ten year old kid.

 

[shadow9d9]

Gravity gun is a gimmick in Half life 2 which is based around physics and interactivity of the environment....sure, whatever you say. Just keep telling yourself that.

Reading the other posts, I realized that I'm arguing with a single player FPS hater, oh well. I like both single player games and multiplayer games, though its dependent on quality and how entertaining it is. Many multiplayer games have been ruined by their playerbase sadly. At least in a single player game nobody will start screaming at you over VOIP that your a ten year old kid.

It is good to give up and make up some excuse to avoid having to make an argument. When one of your arguments of a game being good is that it is pretty....

I am genuinely curious though as to what is better about the "gunplay" than the other games I mentioned... It just so happened that you started run away right when I asked this legitimate question.

I'll just say it again. In 1000+ combined hours between BF4, BF2, and BFBC2, I've literally never heard a ten year old even once. You people need to get off the consoles and off the deathmatch games.

Have you guys ever considered that you choose to play games that ATTRACT ten year olds... that may have something to say about your game tastes... Just saying.

 

[Topweasel]

"You already have decided that it was crap like the other 99% of SP FPS's, it's a type of game you detest in the first place. Does that kind of invalidate your opinion on the matter?"- This is an assumption. HL2 came out 10 years ago. You have absolutely no idea when I decided to write off single player fpss as being the same. Your whole argument was based on this fallacy.

I'm not offended whatsoever. I think the desperation in your posts are funny. YOU, on the other hand, are the one that claimed my opinions are "demeaning." You took offense. Don't try to accuse me of the same using false equivalence. You made something up.

Does it matter when you wrote off FPS's. You have a vocal dislike of the genre and whether HL2 was part of building that dislike, you don't have any respect for the genre than how can anyone respect your opinion on a game within the genre. The bottom line is that they can't and your opinions again are invalidated by your hatred for genre.

Why should it be otherwise? Is there at least some level of "less" crappy where we can use an adjustable slider to as a comparison? I mean your opinion would still not be completely valid because there would still be tons of ingrained bias to overcome, but would be better served then this game in this genre you like to play is part of the 99% that is crap and why I refuse to even play them. It's as bad as an old person saying all the new music is crap.


What desperation? There isn't any. I don't know how you can infer my desperation from the a couple posts throughout the day. If anything I took your posts as shortsighted and self centered which you compounded with your own hypocrisy, defending your own niche based solely own experiences. But it doesn't take someone to be offended to be able to read text and realize it's attempt to demean people. Can you explain how it could be read in any other way? You say you stand by your statement, yet you backpedal and state that I am desperate and want to infer what you meant by that statement.

I think people just have no clue what a good story is, and haven't read a good book or seen a good tv show, etc.

How is that not supposed to be demeaning to people who enjoy SP FPSs?

 

[DarkKnightDude]

It is good to give up and make up some excuse as to why when one of your arguments of a game being good is that it is pretty.

All my arguments were how pretty the game was obviously. Did you actually read my post? Oh wait, I forgot, you don't count the other aspects of it, so therefore the game is only pretty.

I'll just say it again. In 1000+ combined hours between BF4, BF2, and BFBC2, I've literally never heard a ten year old even once. You people need to get off the consoles and off the deathmatch games.

I like how you immediately assume I play on console, yeah I hang out on a PC forum because I'm a console gamer and that consoles only play deathmatch games lol (I do have a PS3, but that's for Uncharted and Last of Us games and MGS, don't care about the rest).

BFBC2 doesn't even having working VOIP on PC. BF4 everybody barely voice chats, and if they do, usually I hear some foreign guy playing some music or more rarely some guy trying to teamwork. BF2 servers are broke, though the mod communities are small so they're decent enough. Here's some other ones I actually play.

TF2, filled with youngsters, though nowadays its more of a dress simulator.

DOTA2, enough said. MOBAs appeal to the most common denominator. The community isn't really filled with ten years, usually actual adults who scream at you if you did something that is perceived as wrong to them. Or they just yell at you anyway because, yelling is good.

CS:GO, well, the voice chat I usually mute through the console.

Rust and DayZ, enough said.

Insurgency has the best community because the smaller the community the more milder they are. Killing Floor has also a decent community. Red Orchestra 2, really depends what server you are on. ArmA 2 has some excellent tight knit communities for co-op missions.

Have you guys ever considered that you choose to play games that ATTRACT ten year olds... that may have something to say about your game tastes... Just saying.

Yeah, sorry its all my fault, I forgot.

EDIT:

I am genuinely curious though as to what is better about the "gunplay" than the other games I mentioned... It just so happened that you started run away right when I asked this legitimate question.

The gun play is satisfying to me, considering it doesn't have ADS. Shotguns pack a punch when you fire (double blasting is a lot of fun) and its hilarious to watch enemies fly off in ragdolls when you hit them (the sound design also shows here). Though the weapon changing system was always on the clunky side unless you're hot-keying your weapons.

Crossbow is pretty fun to use too though ammo is always limited. SMG has an awesome firing sound, though its a bit on the weak side. Revolver, well always satisfying to use. I think variety here really helped too.

I do agree its a bit on the dated side, later games like Crysis and BioShock have probably better gunplay (though can't say Crysis's gunplay wowed me), but for its time, it was excellent and did the job better then anything else (though I'm also fond of the gunplay in Doom 3 and Unreal).

I thought the gunplay in BF4 is pretty bland tbh, BFBC2 still has the best guns for me.

 

[shadow9d9]

Does it matter when you wrote off FPS's. You have a vocal dislike of the genre and whether HL2 was part of building that dislike, you don't have any respect for the genre than how can anyone respect your opinion on a game within the genre. The bottom line is that they can't and your opinions again are invalidated by your hatred for genre.

Why should it be otherwise? Is there at least some level of "less" crappy where we can use an adjustable slider to as a comparison? I mean your opinion would still not be completely valid because there would still be tons of ingrained bias to overcome, but would be better served then this game in this genre you like to play is part of the 99% that is crap and why I refuse to even play them. It's as bad as an old person saying all the new music is crap.


What desperation? There isn't any. I don't know how you can infer my desperation from the a couple posts throughout the day. If anything I took your posts as shortsighted and self centered which you compounded with your own hypocrisy, defending your own niche based solely own experiences. But it doesn't take someone to be offended to be able to read text and realize it's attempt to demean people. Can you explain how it could be read in any other way? You say you stand by your statement, yet you backpedal and state that I am desperate and want to infer what you meant by that statement.


How is that not supposed to be demeaning to people who enjoy SP FPSs?

Yes, it matters. I am intrigued by the statement and twice now you have dodged it. Please substantiate it.

 

[shadow9d9]

All my arguments were how pretty the game was obviously. Did you actually read my post? Oh wait, I forgot, you don't count the other aspects of it, so therefore the game is only pretty.



I like how you immediately assume I play on console,

Didn't assume it. I was just covering my bases and making sure.

BFBC2 doesn't even having working VOIP on PC.

It indeed has been a while. You could add that to the list of faults of that game.

BF4 everybody barely voice chats, and if they do, usually I hear some foreign guy playing some music or more rarely some guy trying to teamwork.

I've gone over this about five times.
1. As long as YOU use voip, other people will be able to listen, follow, and contribute. I've repeated this over and over and you choose to ignore it.
2. Once you start, you'd be surprised at how many people start using it.

BF2 servers are broke, though the mod communities are small so they're decent enough. Here's some other ones I actually play.

Yes, but I was referring to the past.

TF2, filled with youngsters, though nowadays its more of a dress simulator.

TF2 has absolutely gone down in quality and overabundance of nonsense since it went free to play. That being said, it is VERY easy to find a quality server with regulars and good admins. Takes a one time minimum investment. Amazing communities on good servers. Stop being lazy.

DOTA2, enough said. MOBAs appeal to the most common denominator. The community isn't really filled with ten years, usually actual adults who scream at you if you did something that is perceived as wrong to them. Or they just yell at you anyway because, yelling is good.

I don't play MOBAs, so I can't comment.

CS:GO, well, the voice chat I usually mute through the console.

Your loss. What is the point in playing a team based game if you go lone wolf? This is your problem. Laziness and lack of initiative. You just don't care, so don't expect others that you play with to.

Rust and DayZ, enough said.

Yes, don't know why you even brought up DayZ.

EDIT:

The gun play is satisfying to me, considering it doesn't have ADS. Shotguns pack a punch when you fire (double blasting is a lot of fun) and its hilarious to watch enemies fly off in ragdolls when you hit them (the sound design also shows here). Though the weapon changing system was always on the clunky side unless you're hot-keying your weapons.

Crossbow is pretty fun to use too though ammo is always limited. SMG has an awesome firing sound, though its a bit on the weak side. Revolver, well always satisfying to use. I think variety here really helped too.

I do agree its a bit on the dated side, later games like Crysis and BioShock have probably better gunplay (though can't say Crysis's gunplay wowed me), but for its time, it was excellent and did the job better then anything else (though I'm also fond of the gunplay in Doom 3 and Unreal).

I thought the gunplay in BF4 is pretty bland tbh, BFBC2 still has the best guns for me.

You like some sounds. Some guns hit hard(shotguns, duh, as they do in all games). It would have been nice to compare them to the games I listed, which are all previous. It would have been nice to know why you think HL2 was anything different than any of them.

I don't know what "gunplay in BF4 is pretty bland" means. What does the term "gunplay" even mean? Is it the sound? Is it that some guns like shotguns kill fast? They work that way in BF4 and every other FPS.

Ragdoll is nice, but HL2 wasn't the first game to use it from my research.

 

[shadow9d9]

Also, DarkKnightDude , would you post or PM me your BF4 ID? I'm curious what your stats look like.

 

[Topweasel]

Yes, it matters. I am intrigued by the statement and twice now you have dodged it. Please substantiate it.

Dodged what? I am sorry I thought I touched on all the points. What statement do you want me to go more in depth on?

 

[DarkKnightDude]

It indeed has been a while. You could add that to the list of faults of that game

Its funny because in the beta it worked decently enough. BF3 had the same problem, added voice chat to battlelog instead, what a joke.

TF2 has absolutely gone down in quality and overabundance of nonsense since it went free to play. That being said, it is VERY easy to find a quality server with regulars and good admins. Takes a one time minimum investment. Amazing communities on good servers. Stop being lazy.

Everything is my fault obviously. Give me a break. You're being ridiculous. Not going to invest in time to look for a decent server, the game is past its prime for me. Its a good blast for a few sessions but then I just exit because it gets annoying.

Your loss. What is the point in playing a team based game if you go lone wolf? This is your problem. Laziness and lack of initiative. You just don't care, so don't expect others that you play with to.

Yes, obviously laziness is the prime suspect here, keep up with your assumptions, you're doing great.

On pub servers I always mute the voice chat, because its usually a disaster or just song spams. Ranked matches, well in my situation nobody speaks any English out here so I get matchmaked with Russians, Japanese, Chinese, Thais, Vietnamese, you name it. Anyways, the team chat commands are enough in this case.

Yes, don't know why you even brought up DayZ.

Because its filled with kids and people that defines what local voice chat is like when you give people power over others. Its actually fascinating to watch.

You like some sounds. Some guns hit hard(shotguns, duh, as they do in all games). It would have been nice to compare them to the games I listed, which are all previous. It would have been nice to know why you think HL2 was anything different than any of them.

Because the guns were fun and satisfying to use? Is that a hard concept to swallow? The Half Life 2 guns covered all the bases you need, like sniping, shotgunning, long range accurate fire, short range spam, even the unique gravity gun.

Well, some games you mentioned, like BF2 has some of the worst hit registration in a video game. The Battlefield series gameplay is hurt by the poor servers and the netcode which is a tradition (half working hit registration throughout the series).

I don't know what "gunplay in BF4 is pretty bland" means. What does the term "gunplay" even mean? Is it the sound? Is it that some guns like shotguns kill fast? They work that way in BF4 and every other FPS.

BF4, all the guns just seem all the same to me, none have any uniqueness. They don't have that "umpfh" and not as satisfying to use. The absoutely shitty netcode does not help the game one bit. Sound wise BFBC2 has the best firearms sounds easily and you had more control over your weapons, though you could just tap fire with every gun with your mouse.

Ragdoll is nice, but HL2 wasn't the first game to use it from my research.

I think it was the Trespasser game, though the physics in that game are hilariously broken, but man that game was ahead of everything else for its time. Too bad no digital store have it on sale around today.

Anyways, to sum up for me, singleplayer has the best immersion into a game's universe. Multiplayer is fantastic fun. When it works.

 

[Maleficus]

The game has been overrated since day 1, it's actually complete trash. HL1 was amazing though

 

[BudAshes]

Also, DarkKnightDude , would you post or PM me your BF4 ID? I'm curious what your stats look like.

Pm me pics of yourself. I'm curious how far over 300lbs you are :biggrin:

 

[Sulaco]

1. Name calling is only name calling.

2. It isn't an anecdote. It is 1000s of hours of 99.999999% the opposite of what you are claiming.

3. "have the free time available to coordinate with groups of trusted people"- Did you read my posts? I go into BF4, go into a squad where their ratios aren't 1/20, and then talk as needed. People often start talking back, but at the very least, they listen when you tell them that they are being shot from the left, behind a rock.

a. I am not familiar with Arma enough to comment.

b. Dayz is a chaotic game with no built in voip. This already breaks two of my rules of finding competent and reasonable people. Pick a team based game with voip built in. Not a game built around paranoia and backstabbing, which is what Dayz is about.

c. BF- Explained above. Are you playing pc, using your voip in squads in game?

d. LFD is a coop single player game. It'll be hit or miss because of this.

7. Again, Dayz is BASED on the idea of backstabbing and every man for themselves. Tenuous alliances at best and no in game voip. So, what in the WORLD are you talking about, bringing it up for THIS discussion!?

You seem incredibly ignorant about anything NOT Battlefield. That's fine, but most of your explanations are nonsense. "L4D is a co-op singleplayer game. It'll be hit or miss because of this" is a great hand waving technique for basically admitting that I'm right. Thank you. Yes, it's hit or miss...which is exactly my point. It IS hit or miss. And while it's mostly hit, those misses are not insignificant. Saying it's "mostly a single player game" is meaningless is the actual multiplayer is precisely as I describe.

I only play on PC, and a microphone/voip/in-game chat is always used. Let's dismantle this misconception once and for all. I figured you would've understood after the comment about playing on dial-up on the MSN Gaming Zone, but suffice to say, yes, I never play online with strangers on console, and barely have since the Dreamcast.

 

[Sulaco]

Yes, it matters. I am intrigued by the statement and twice now you have dodged it. Please substantiate it.

I'll answer for him.

I'm not sure if you're being deliberately disingenuous, or genuinely don't see how different weapons and gun play (yes, that phrase) can be more satisfying than others. But in case you don't, I'll give an example:

DOOM 3.

DOOM 3 had a myriad of problems. But specifically referring to weapons, the machine gun in DOOM 3 was universally panned. Why? Isn't ALL gun play/weapon usage the same in FPS pretty much? That seems to be what you're arguing.

The answer is no. No it is not. DOOM 3's machine gun (amongst other weapons) is proof. The most obvious being the sound, a terribly unsatisfying "*pint pint pint pint* report that, if I remember the criticisms of the time correctly, sounded "like a pencil tapping".

The animation was also lacking, and the weak effect it had on enemies, and how they reacted/responded to being hit by it was poor.
As a physical design, too, although obviously subjective, it was boring and unimpressive.

Here's another example, if you ever played it:

F.E.A.R.

The original FEAR had some of the best shoot-outs/firefights of any game up to that point. That largely had to do with excellent physics, graphical effects, and satisfying sounds that were put into the game's weapons. Anybody who played F.E.A.R when it was new will remember that.


So to answer your question: Yes, it IS possible to have varying quality of weapons and weapon mechanics in games. A lot of it has to do with the sound of the report, but also recoil, animations, texture/realism/model of the actual weapon, reload speed, damage to enemies, accuracy, and just general feel.

And yes, it's not a given in all FPS, and they do not all do it equally, as DOOM 3 pointed out.
But Half Life 2 was one of those games where for the most part, the weapon use/firefights/gunplay whatever you want to call it were satisfying and enjoyable, for all the reasons listed above.

 

[BoberFett]

All right ... all right ... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order ... what has Half Life ever done for us?

 

[exar333]

Solid game, but a bit too much on the rails for me. I rather enjoyed VTM: Bloodlines more around the same time and that game (IMHO) stands-up better over time. While not as pretty as HL2, it was more enjoyable and allowed more character freedom.

I can appreciate HL2, but it wasn't one of my favorites. Always felt a bit bland to me.

 

[Topweasel]

I'll answer for him.

That wasn't part of his discussion with me. That was with DKD.

I still don't know what he wants me to substantiate. It looks like it's in reference for not caring when he gave up on FPS as for why his opinion is invalidated. But I thought that was already pretty clear and he hasn't even challenged the examples I laid out. Hate for the Genre is hate for the Genre, whether its the worst game ever or the best game ever that turned him away if he can't find any respect for genre that other people enjoy then how can one take the dislike of the game seriously. An extreme bias invalidates opinion on something that touches on that bias. Heck any bias should, but almost everyone has their opinions skewed one way or another. But its for this reason that jurors are interviewed and dismissed biased on their biases.

 

[werepossum]

All right ... all right ... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order ... what has Half Life ever done for us?

+1 for that golden reference.

 

[NIGELG]

It is over rated but worth a play or two....

I was more intrigued by Half Life 1.

 

[shadow9d9]

Pm me pics of yourself. I'm curious how far over 300lbs you are :biggrin:

I'm 6 feet and weigh 177.9 as of this morning. I'm not attracted to guys though, so I have no intention of sending pics.