Is Haswell Ready for Tablet Duty? Battery Life of Haswell ULT vs Modern ARM Tablets

[blackened23]

Broadwell will make "Core" a legitimate tablet contender. Hoping that the Gen8 GPU is beefed up on the decode/fixed function side.

Very exciting times ahead. This is what happens when you light a fire under Intel's butt...we actually get some pretty darn revolutionary things.

Agreed. It appears intel will have chips of varying levels of performance for every price point, which is precisely the strategy intel should pursue IMO...they will have Haswell/Broadwell for the super high end convertibles (think macbook/pro type machines, but as tablets) and Bay Trail for the lower price point SKUs. And Bay Trail should meet or exceed the performance and efficiency of the best ARM SOCs.

Prior to this, Intel had......high end chips for ultrabooks and the horrible Atom for the low end. Understandably, manufacturers weren't enthused with Atom, but Bay Trail will spice things up. On the other end of the spectrum, Ivy Bridge ULV parts were obviously super high performance parts but didn't quite have the battery life of ipad level systems; Haswell changes this. Should be interesting to see how things pan out this fall when Windows 8.1 and Bay Trail hits.

 

[monstercameron]

I am not so sure about core being ready for everday tablet use...sure the battery life is impressive for web browsing[where you are idle most of the time] and video decoding[where lp fixed function hardware do the work] but when haswell has to crunch numbers[high workload], multitask, 3d rendering or some other strenuous activity, it will no doubt produce a tonne of heat and drain the battery in a few hours[I reckon in a mba, that would be 2-3hrs].

you guys seem to be taking web browsing as a good battery indicator, even though that is mostly what alot do. Not to mention frequency, this is a 1.3GHz part that will turbo upto 2.6GHz. I also bet that most of those web browser runs were at 800MHz and if it does turbo to give the performance then it will gobble up ~36W.

So haswell isn't ready for tablets unless you want $1000+, .5" thick, 2Lb bricks that last ~10 hrs idling and ~3 hrs doing work/playing games

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-MacBook-Air-13-Mid-2013-MD760D-A-Subnotebook.96311.0.html

i5 sku: http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/Intel-Core-i5-4250U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_60-GHz

 

[TuxDave]

but when haswell has to crunch numbers[high workload], multitask, 3d rendering or some other strenuous activity, it will no doubt produce a tonne of heat and drain the battery in a few hours[I reckon in a mba, that would be 2-3hrs].

I can provide my anecdotal evidence. My wife uses it for her finance classes. So it's a lot of excel and word for coursework, video playback for additional lessons and web browsing. I use it only to sort/edit some photos. The battery life is definitely good for that.

But your comment on that vs tablet is interesting. Isn't a tablets battery life significantly reduced as well. I know my smartphone battery life goes down to a matter of hours if I'm continuously playing games that require 3d rendering. What tablet battery life are you comparing it against?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Seems to me, and maybe it's stating the obvious at this point... But instead of desktop taking priority in binning mobile has.

My i5 has a stock vid of 1.0v, I can run it 4GHz @ 0.985v - however a lot of chips I'm seeing are 1.1v to 1.2v stock vid and they run hot whereas mine does not.

So am I stating the obvious here, desktop got the trash Haswell sku's?

Although it strikes me as odd that Intel wouldn't have done this in the past, but perhaps there is just more variance in sku's with Haswell?

Maybe I'm just reading into it too much?

 

[tential]

Seems to me, and maybe it's stating the obvious at this point... But instead of desktop taking priority in binning mobile has.

My i5 has a stock vid of 1.0v, I can run it 4GHz @ 0.985v - however a lot of chips I'm seeing are 1.1v to 1.2v stock vid and they run hot whereas mine does not.

So am I stating the obvious here, desktop got the trash Haswell sku's?

Although it strikes me as odd that Intel wouldn't have done this in the past, but perhaps there is just more variance in sku's with Haswell?

Maybe I'm just reading into it too much?

Mobile market is more lucrative, and aren't their mobile chips priced MUCH higher than their desktop chips?

 

[dastral]

So haswell isn't ready for tablets unless you want $1000+, .5" thick, 2Lb bricks that last ~10 hrs idling and ~3 hrs doing work/playing games

Every time i see a post like this i want to punch someone in the face.
We now have a CPU that almost competes with ARM for Video/Browsing in consumption...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7117/haswell-ult-investigation
While having 2 3 4 times more "available power/potential"...

And your complain is that when you start doing "serious work" (something which ARM is completely unsuited for) you end up killing the battery ?

Doing "serious stuff" basically divides ipad Battery life by 2 :
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7

I'm not saying Intel is not overpriced (they are)... but at least get your facts straight, Haswell almost competes with Arm.
While providing MUCH more available power (which OFC will drain the battery when used to its potential).

 

[pelov]

Every time i see a post like this i want to punch someone in the face.
We now have a CPU that almost competes with ARM for Video/Browsing in consumption...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7117/haswell-ult-investigation
While having 2 3 4 times more "available power/potential"...

And your complain is that when you start doing "serious work" (something which ARM is completely unsuited for) you end up killing the battery ?

Doing "serious stuff" basically divides ipad Battery life by 2 :
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7

I'm not saying Intel is not overpriced (they are)... but at least get your facts straight, Haswell almost competes with Arm.
While providing MUCH more available power (which OFC will drain the battery when used to its potential).

I think it's a legitimate argument. If you're going to pay >$1200 for a Haswell tablet then presumably you're doing so because you want to be able to use the horsepower.

Personally speaking, if I'm going to buy a tablet to replace my laptop for work, I'd need it to get me through 8hrs of work, and 4hrs+ of that with 3GB of RAM utilized along with heavy multitasking. My ThinkPad would be able to do that, but a Haswell tablet - even if it would suit really well for drafting and what I do on a daily basis - it wouldn't have the battery life to do so.

The point is, if you're buying an iPad you already know what you're getting into. You're already well aware that your legacy desktop/workstation stuff and even gaming won't work on it. The entirety of the software landscape associated with that device is made specifically to cater to it. If you're buying a Haswell tablet that can theoretically do all of what you would ask it to in Win32/legacy, it still lacks the performance and battery life to do it well enough.

There are always going to be folks that dislike Apple/Android and want Windows and a proper x86 chip in a tablet, but they're very few in number (see Win8 tablet sales figures =P). The people that actually need the performance of Haswell in a tiny package also have legitimate concerns regarding price, mobility/battery life, and performance. A tablet is still a 'browse the web' machine for me, and Haswell being introduced in a tablet form factor doesn't change that given the significant trade-offs I'd have to make.

It is nice to see Intel getting closer, I just wish it was with the Atom and not with Haswell. 'Premium' tablets at high price tags and meh battery life running Win8 isn't the market they need to address.

 

[sm625]

So haswell isn't ready for tablets unless you want $1000+, .5" thick, 2Lb bricks that last ~10 hrs idling and ~3 hrs doing work/playing games

That problem is universal, its not just an intel/x86 problem. I have seen quite a few phones that will last all day or die in 90 minutes playing a cpu/gpu intensive game.

 

[pelov]

That problem is universal, its not just an intel/x86 problem. I have seen quite a few phones that will last all day or die in 90 minutes playing a cpu/gpu intensive game.

The price certainly is.

Furthermore, the software that an iPad or Android tablet is tasked with is significantly less intensive than you'd ask of an x86 Haswell. Is anybody really going to buy Haswell so they can use the Metro store and those comparatively crappy games? or are they going to install steam and all of their desktop/laptop applications?

We saw the same trade-offs when laptops finally entered the consumers hands en masse. They didn't offer anywhere near the same performance level and the battery life was abysmal and the price astronomical, but it was an easier sell because your PC was now truly mobile. With tablets it's a tougher sell, because you're not selling 'mobile' any more. Instead you're selling 'even more mobile' but with even more trade-offs.

It's not like Win8 is a hit either. I don't see many people running out to try Microsoft's new shiny operating system on a tablet

 

[tential]

Every time i see a post like this i want to punch someone in the face.
We now have a CPU that almost competes with ARM for Video/Browsing in consumption...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7117/haswell-ult-investigation
While having 2 3 4 times more "available power/potential"...

And your complain is that when you start doing "serious work" (something which ARM is completely unsuited for) you end up killing the battery ?

Doing "serious stuff" basically divides ipad Battery life by 2 :
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6472/ipad-4-late-2012-review/7

I'm not saying Intel is not overpriced (they are)... but at least get your facts straight, Haswell almost competes with Arm.
While providing MUCH more available power (which OFC will drain the battery when used to its potential).

Like I always say, people will find ANY reason to complain.
"You gave me a Ferrari? WTF MAN? How am I going to afford the insurance!?"

 

[Sweepr]

At the beginning of the year, Intel introduced the first 7W SDP Ivy Bridge parts in limited quantities with the promise that Haswell would bring even lower power options. We didn't see much OEM adoption of the 7W SDP IVB SKUs, but at the Haswell launch Intel made good on its promise to follow up with an even lower power version. The first Haswell Y-series parts carried a 6W SDP (and 11.5W TDP), and that value included the on-package PCH. Today Intel is announcing an even lower power version, once again in limited quantities. By the end of this year Haswell will be offered in a 4.5W SDP version (still 11.5W TDP)...

...Moving from 6W SDP down to 4.5W SDP is a big deal because it enables something huge: fanless Haswell tablet designs. At 6W Intel recommends some sort of active cooling within the chassis, but at 4.5W it's possible to go completely fanless.

www.anandtech.com/show/7168/haswell-goes-fanless-45w-sdp-parts-in-limited-volumes-later-this-year