Is Homosexuality a fundamental freedom and universal human right

[MrPickins]

You are not thinking deep enough.

Take the ndaa that obama signed, which allows the government to indefinitely detention US citizens without due process.

Take the acaa which forces US citizens to either buy health insurance or pay a fine.

Justice department kills US citizens without due process.

Can not smoke weed in the privacy of our own home.

Can not make whiskey in our own home.

All of those are justified for various reasons.

But if anyone treads on the rights of gays, then all hell breaks loose.

Who says we can't be upset about all of these issues?

 

[MrPickins]

I just stated a fact, hpv is a health risk. States have the authority to pass laws to protect the health, welfare and safety of its citizens.

What does HPV have to do with homosexuality?

 

[WelshBloke]

HPV has also been linked to oral cancer.

Cervical cancer if caught in time is 100% treatable. The doctor just removes the cervix.

HPV has also been linked to penile cancer.

They chop the end of your dick off for that.

 

[HAL9000]

Finally! A voice of reason:

Will you please tell Texashiker that my penis is special?

Sure thing.

I don't really get why this is a thread, is it just a thread for homophobes to call gay people abnormal or something?

Texashiker! rudeguy's penis is special!​

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm discovering that this topic is attempting to be a thought experiment.

The experiment is to see if Texashiker has any thoughts?

#badjoke #sorry #uncalledfor

 

[HAL9000]

The experiment is to see if Texashiker has any thoughts?

#badjoke #sorry #uncalledfor

:biggrin:

 

[Texashiker]

What does HPV have to do with homosexuality?

Educate yourself,

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm

Gay and bisexual men (who have sex with other men) are about 17 times more likely to develop anal cancer than men who only have sex with women.

Not 17%, 17 times more likely.

Texashiker! rudeguy's penis is special!​

I would have to see it to believe it.

 

[WelshBloke]

What I do not understand, how can obama be a champion of liberty, when he signed two different laws - the ndaa and the aca.

Has Obama, or anyone else, claimed that he was a champion of liberty?

I once wrote a short story in high school but that doesn't make me a member of the literati.

 

[rudeguy]

Sure thing.

I don't really get why this is a thread, is it just a thread for homophobes to call gay people abnormal or something?

Texashiker! rudeguy's penis is special!​

LMFAO!

I think TH had plans of backdooring (giggity giggity) this thread from "Gays should have rights" to somehow the government controlling gays. I think whatever he had planned backfired very badly though.

 

[HAL9000]

I would have to see it to believe it.

That seems fair, ask for a photo.

On a more thread related topic, why isn't love a human right in your opinion? (apologies if that's a leading questions, it's what I have inferred you think based on your post)

 

[HAL9000]

LMFAO!

I think TH had plans of backdooring (giggity giggity) this thread from "Gays should have rights" to somehow the government controlling gays. I think whatever he had planned backfired very badly though.

The government controlling gays eh? Let's hope he manages to worm that in here somewhere because I'd like to know what the hell that's supposed to mean....

 

[bradly1101]

I am not suggesting any such thing.

All I have done is open a topic for debate, nothing more. I would like to leave my personal feelings out of this.

Well until the question of what rights would be appropriate to restrict gays from having (PDA's? Going to church? Congregating in public [ie: laws like Russia?]) is answered aren't we all just sitting around here circle-jerking our minds?

 

[Texashiker]

Has Obama, or anyone else, claimed that he was a champion of liberty?

Is a double standard to sign a law that allows the government to hold its own citizens in prison forever, but then slam a nation for restricting gay rights?

To me it is a double standard.

How dare some third world nation restrict gay rights, but we are going to grant the government the right to hold citizens forever, kill our own citizens with drones, and force our citizens to buy a product or pay a fine,.

 

[rudeguy]

The government controlling gays eh? Let's hope he manages to worm that in here somewhere because I'd like to know what the hell that's supposed to mean....

I know you and I have had this talk before, but the government seriously has no place in the bedroom. What adults do in there is their own business.

Now...if the government is going to decide that sex is a basic right, then they are going to have to start paying a Thai hooker to come bang me three times a week. Cause I sure as hell am not getting any as it stands, and...well...its my right!

Bring on the Thai hookers!

 

[HAL9000]

Well until the question of what rights would be appropriate to restrict gays from having (PDA's? Going to church? Congregating in public [ie: laws like Russia?]) is answered aren't we all just sitting around here circle-jerking our minds?

Certainly seems like a slightly gay circle jerk from my perspective... but damn it that's our fundamental human right!

 

[HAL9000]

I know you and I have had this talk before, but the government seriously has no place in the bedroom. What adults do in there is their own business.

Now...if the government is going to decide that sex is a basic right, then they are going to have to start paying a Thai hooker to come bang me three times a week. Cause I sure as hell am not getting any as it stands, and...well...its my right!

Bring on the Thai hookers!

Oh god, sure I suppose you could go down that route if you need to start legislating what people get up to behind close doors.

I say bring on the Thai hookers! as long as they are happy with the situation and happy with their end in it.. why not?

 

[Texashiker]

Oh god, sure I suppose you could go down that route if you need to start legislating what people get up to behind close doors.

The government already restricts what we can do behind closed doors.

 

[HAL9000]

The government already restricts what we can do behind closed doors.

For example...

Also: I'm giggling slightly that this is the first of my responses you've replied to, particularly given that you've ignored my posts to you and jumped into a conversation between rudeguy and I. It seems he was right when he said that the whole government side to sex is clearly what you were trying to achieve in discussion in this thread.

 

[Texashiker]

For example...

Already discussed several times in this thread, but for review:

Smoke weed,
Make whiskey,
Snort coke,
Shoot heroin,
Smoke crack,

What goes on in my bedroom between consenting adults is none of the governments business,,,, right?

For example...

Also: I'm giggling slightly that this is the first of my responses you've replied to, particularly given that you've ignored my posts to you and jumped into a conversation between rudeguy and I. It seems he was right when he said that the whole government side to sex is clearly what you were trying to achieve in discussion in this thread.

I am not ignoring your post, I am ignoring your open ended questions, such as should love be a right?

Define love. Can you see love, feel love, taste love,,,,?

I can see and hold my AR15. I can see the ballot box, and I know what person I am voting for. Love is what? A feeling. How do you protect a feeling?

 

[bradly1101]

Certainly seems like a slightly gay circle jerk from my perspective... but damn it that's our fundamental human right!

Wow, this thread has grown almost as long as a rudeguy 'special'!

 

[MrPickins]

Already discussed several times in this thread, but for review:

Smoke weed,
Make whiskey,
Snort coke,
Shoot heroin,
Smoke crack,

What goes on in my bedroom between consenting adults is none of the governments business,,,, right?

Apples and oranges. These are choices people make, not things that they fundamentally are.

 

[MrPickins]

Educate yourself,

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm

Not 17%, 17 times more likely.

I stand corrected.

But how about this link showing that gay marriage is good for the mens' health?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16203621

 

[HAL9000]

Already discussed several times in this thread, but for review:

Smoke weed,
Make whiskey,
Snort coke,
Shoot heroin,
Smoke crack,

What goes on in my bedroom between consenting adults is none of the governments business,,,, right?

Ah I see, so based on what you're saying you're going to argue that things that are detrimental to the health of the population are illegal, and as homosexuality has some health side effects (just like all sex) it should be in some way legislated against based on the same logic as banning heroine..?

Sorry if I'm jumping the gun, just trying to get to your point.

If that is your argument, I think it's hugely flawed. There's a huge difference between a person's right to sit and drug themselves to death and a persons right to engage in healthy consensual conduct with other members of the consenting adult population. Most things that people do, if done incorrectly can have health side effects, like driving a car if you aren't paying attention, that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

If however something ONLY causes negative health effects and has no other purpose or use, such as taking heroine. Then I can see an argument for making them illegal, but they need to be looked at on their individual merit.

 

[rudeguy]

Wow, this thread has grown almost as long as a rudeguy 'special'!

:biggrin:

 

[HAL9000]

I am not ignoring your post, I am ignoring your open ended questions, such as should love be a right?

Define love. Can you see love, feel love, taste love,,,,?

This is where we may have an issue, you see, from my perspective I don't tend to have blind faith in anything, I am a proponent of skeptical logic, but in this one rare area I believe in love. I have faith in it. I believe I have seen and felt and... well not tasted... but seen and felt love.

Love from my perspective (if it has to be defined) can be broken down into three concepts. The ancient greeks have three words for love that work perfectly.

(here are my amateur explanations and definitions of those three concepts, sorry if I'm not as well educated as some in the area and I'm happy to have misunderstood if someone else would like to correct me)

1) Agape - A type of unconditional love you can feel for a spouse or family member or particular activity that you have an unconditional enjoyment of
2) Eros - the erotic love two people can experience together or feel for each other (although you can also according to the ancient greeks feel this love for things like art but I'm not going there right now)
3) Phileo - The kind of love you would feel for a brother or best friend, a kinship between two people.

When you feel these three things for another person and they feel the same for you, that's what I call love.

I can see and hold my AR15. I can see the ballot box, and I know what person I am voting for. Love is what? A feeling. How do you protect a feeling?

I appreciate that you can't feel and hold it in the way that you can an AR15... but concepts and psychological states do clearly exist in the world, so they need some consideration.

If we were to use your argument that you can't protect a feeling in legislation then you would have to throw away all notion of ownership, afterall owning a piece of land is a feeling that has been put into legislation, you'd have to throw away the rights of the mentally ill, after all mental health is a subjective experience that includes a set of difficult to define feelings that the person experiences. Pain is just a feeling, but we legislate against things that cause pain like torture.

How do you protect a feeling? It's very difficult to do, but we do it every day in every aspect of our lives. So why shouldn't human beings make it a rule that everyone has the right to love and the right to experience physical love with another person capable of understanding and consenting to engage in that love?

Wow, this thread has grown almost as long as a rudeguy 'special'!

Really did!


Edit: Turns out there is a fourth in ancient greek "Storge" a rarely used word in ancient greek that means affection... Interesting.