Is it better to stay poor?

[Mai72]

Just got done talking with a friend. He's currently on Medicaid in NJ. He doesn't have to pay for his health coverage because he only made about $11,000 last year. He also has student loan debt but doesn't have to pay it back because of his income. In fact, he's currently on IBR.

Now, here is the kicker. He's trying to better himself. He's working 2 jobs which will put him in a higher income bracket. About $25-30k a year. I say good for him. You want to move up. That's the American dream. But, he just got off the phone with HealthCare.gov and they informed him that since his income has increased he's looking at $300 a month for health coverage. It's the same for his student loans. He will have to start paying them back. And he should. He took out the loans and he knows the deal. He accepts responsibility, but he doesn't know if he's going to have the funds. With rent, food, daily expenses, and additional bills there is going to be nothing left over for health coverage and his student loans. And, let's face it. $30k a year in NJ is peanuts.

It seems that unless you're making a ton of money it's just better to be broke so you can let the government cover your expenses. I'd never want to give the government control over my life, but when you're on the edge of poverty like my friend, it seems that poverty is the better solution. Hell, I've known people who collect unemployment and work under the table. It's not a great way to live, but at least they aren't busting their asses.

It just seems that the people who are really trying to better themselves are the fools, and the people who game the system are the smart ones. I don't want to believe that, because this is still America.

 

[dullard]

Turn down $25,000 to $30,000 because you MIGHT have to pay $3600 (in reality the new job might just cover the difference)? The only fool is the one who chooses to be $21,400 poorer.

Edit: maybe I misread it (I read it as a higher income, about $25k to $30k). Maybe the real scenario is that he'd be turning down an extra $14k to 19k (from $11k to $25k). Still, the fool is the person who turns down $14k because he might have to pay $3600.

Also note, he'd be getting far more social security benefits with the higher income. So, he'd be earning thousands of future dollars too.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Turn down $25,000 to $30,000 because you MIGHT have to pay $3600 (in reality the new job might just cover the difference)? The only fool is the one who chooses to be $21,400 poorer.

QFT.

Also - there is something to be said for not being a leach.

 

[Ns1]

Having money is awesome. Sorry, I cannot agree.

 

[Mai72]

Turn down $25,000 to $30,000 because you MIGHT have to pay $3600 (in reality the new job might just cover the difference)? The only fool is the one who chooses to be $21,400 poorer.

I understand what you're saying. He's also working 2 jobs. The people who are getting all of these government benefits aren't doing much. I have a friend who is a manager at a convenience store, and he tells me all the time that a few of his employees will not take on more hours because it will put them in a higher income bracket.

 

[highland145]

QFT.

Also - there is something to be said for not being a leach.

True on both counts but, damn, I'm taking it in the bum being self employed.

 

[IronWing]

I understand what you're saying. He's also working 2 jobs. The people who are getting all of these government benefits aren't doing much. I have a friend who is a manager at a convenience store, and he tells me all the time that a few of his employees will not take on more hours because it will put them in a higher income bracket.

Do you often follow the financial lead of convenience store employees?

 

[Mai72]

QFT.

Also - there is something to be said for not being a leach.

Yea. Work gives a sense of confidence and fulfillment. I've been unemployed and I was bored senseless.

Plus, I didn't have a sense of purpose. So yea.. being a leach is bad.

 

[purbeast0]

Just got done talking with a friend. He's currently on Medicaid in NJ. He doesn't have to pay for his health coverage because he only made about $11,000 last year. He also has student loan debt but doesn't have to pay it back because of his income. In fact, he's currently on IBR.

Now, here is the kicker. He's trying to better himself. He's working 2 jobs which will put him in a higher income bracket. About $25-30k a year. I say good for him. You want to move up. That's the American dream. But, he just got off the phone with HealthCare.gov and they informed him that since his income has increased he's looking at $300 a month for health coverage. It's the same for his student loans. He will have to start paying them back. And he should. He took out the loans and he knows the deal. He accepts responsibility, but he doesn't know if he's going to have the funds. With rent, food, daily expenses, and additional bills there is going to be nothing left over for health coverage and his student loans. And, let's face it. $30k a year in NJ is peanuts.

It seems that unless you're making a ton of money it's just better to be broke so you can let the government cover your expenses. I'd never want to give the government control over my life, but when you're on the edge of poverty like my friend, it seems that poverty is the better solution. Hell, I've known people who collect unemployment and work under the table. It's not a great way to live, but at least they aren't busting their asses.

It just seems that the people who are really trying to better themselves are the fools, and the people who game the system are the smart ones. I don't want to believe that, because this is still America.

and the bolded is the problem.

people are lazy as shit now a days and feel they shouldn't "have" to bust their asses to work their way up. everyone wants everything handed to them. i mean look at the people who want mcdonalds to pay $15/hr. that is fucking ridiculous.

people gaming the system living off of welfare aren't smart at all, they are dumb as shit which is why they are in that position.

i'll gladly take my $100k+/yr salary that i busted my ass to get to and all of my toys, vacations, and my home theater over living in section 8 housing shopping at walmart for everything where going to the public pool in the summer is the most vacation they will ever have.

 

[Mai72]

Do you often follow the financial lead of convenience store employees?

Of course not. I was just using them as an example.

 

[dullard]

I understand what you're saying. He's also working 2 jobs. The people who are getting all of these government benefits aren't doing much. I have a friend who is a manager at a convenience store, and he tells me all the time that a few of his employees will not take on more hours because it will put them in a higher income bracket.

The income bracket is a fallacy.

Our income brackets are gradual. Meaning if you go from a 10% bracket to a 15% bracket by $1, you pay 10% on all of the money you were making before and 15% on only that last $1 (as opposed to the fallacy that you pay 15% on everything). Going to a higher income bracket, in general, cannot hurt you.

The only time it can hurt you is if you fall off of a government subsidy. But most of those are designed to taper off slowly so that you still benefit by having a higher salary.

 

[Rakehellion]

Lol@ people who think being on welfare is a free ride.

 

[kranky]

Yes, there will always be people who actually work harder at not working so they can collect taxpayer money. I don't understand that, because they are locking themselves into poverty. I wonder if they ever notice that people who live that way end up ALWAYS living that way. For many, many years.

That first job might not bring in much more than being on the dole, but it's supposed to be a stepping stone to something better, not a lifelong commitment. It provides a path to something better. Sitting on one's butt and collecting benefits might stave off homeless and starvation, but there's nothing more to hope for.

I do worry about people with that mindset who are younger and have many productive years ahead - they don't consider that one day, those freebies might be taken away or cut so much that to survive they must enter the workforce with zero skills and zero experience and too old to do physical labor.

 

[Rakehellion]

It's not a great way to live, but at least they aren't busting their asses.

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[JSt0rm]

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html

 

[Mai72]

and the bolded is the problem.

people are lazy as shit now a days and feel they shouldn't "have" to bust their asses to work their way up. everyone wants everything handed to them. i mean look at the people who want mcdonalds to pay $15/hr. that is fucking ridiculous.

people gaming the system living off of welfare aren't smart at all, they are dumb as shit which is why they are in that position.

i'll gladly take my $100k+/yr salary that i busted my ass to get to and all of my toys, vacations, and my home theater over living in section 8 housing shopping at walmart for everything where going to the public pool in the summer is the most vacation they will ever have.

For me is the regret that I would have later in life if I didn't live up to my ability. I told my friend to keep his head up and to move forward. I'm a firm believer that things do work out. You just have to keep pushing everyday.

 

[JSt0rm]

the reality is our quality of life is degrading. The american dream is no longer 2.2 kids and a 1500 sq ft home with the man working and the woman taking care of the house. This was a statistical anomaly. The norm is 3rd world level poverty with a upper 1% crust. We gave that all up.

 

[Mai72]

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html

I knew about that study. I will read it again.

Thanks.

 

[Ns1]

n/m

 

[OverVolt]

the reality is our quality of life is degrading. The american dream is no longer 2.2 kids and a 1500 sq ft home with the man working and the woman taking care of the house. This was a statistical anomaly. The norm is 3rd world level poverty with a upper 1% crust. We gave that all up.

Pffft yea, with the blessing of the middle class no less. I don't have alot of sympathy if you do it to yourself.

 

[lxskllr]

It's definitely better to stay poor. When you find yourself getting excess money, send it to me, and I'll dispose of it for you. I won't even use it myself. It'll be dispersed to the non profits of my choosing.

 

[OverVolt]

For me is the regret that I would have later in life if I didn't live up to my ability. I told my friend to keep his head up and to move forward. I'm a firm believer that things do work out. You just have to keep pushing everyday.

 

[BoomerD]

True on both counts but, damn, I'm taking it in the bum being self employed.

Thank you very much. I'm sticking it in your bum by being a bum on SSDI.

(of course, it could be argued that I paid into the system for about 40 years before I became disabled...but that's no fun)

 

[Sonikku]

Is it better to stay poor?

It's better to have a single payer system.

 

[blackangst1]

and the bolded is the problem.

people are lazy as shit now a days and feel they shouldn't "have" to bust their asses to work their way up. everyone wants everything handed to them. i mean look at the people who want mcdonalds to pay $15/hr. that is fucking ridiculous.

people gaming the system living off of welfare aren't smart at all, they are dumb as shit which is why they are in that position.

i'll gladly take my $100k+/yr salary that i busted my ass to get to and all of my toys, vacations, and my home theater over living in section 8 housing shopping at walmart for everything where going to the public pool in the summer is the most vacation they will ever have.

This.