Is it discriminatory for an employer to have a nonsmoking hiring policy?

[ahurtt]

As opposed to all the non-smoking people who died conveniently, quickly, and cheaply? Certainly none of them ever got cancer.

Yeah but the ones who got cancer from smoking were totally preventable and caused by direct consequences to conscious and deliberate actions despite the well known and publicized dangers of smoking. Let's say somebody breaks a fragile and irreplaceable valuable possession of yours by accident. You are less likely to be angry at them (or likely to be less angry at them) than if they had deliberately picked it up and smashed it against a wall, no? We as humans tend to react with the most hostility against others when we feel like their actions that affect us negatively were perpetrated deliberately. Mistakes or accidents or random acts of fate we can forgive. It's human nature.

 

[seemingly random]

My company doesn't have the rule on sodium nitrates, but it does have policies for excessive perfume/cologne, and personal hygene. One woman new hire got hit with the excessive perfume policy. It is a good thing we have a no smoking policy because if someone had lit up, she would have been a crispy critter.

Holy shit, I was just kidding.

 

[ahurtt]

I think they shouldn't employ all the uptight sanctimonious busybodies whose lives are so empty that they cant stop trying to control others private lives, but hey that's just me.

If only it were so simple. If only the societal effects of the health consequences smokers suffer really were felt by them and them alone. Oh what a simple world must be the one in which you live. When the consequences of what somebody else does in their "private life" start affecting my quality of life, it becomes my business.

 

[ahurtt]

Possibly, and this would be a good thing. Imagine how motivated fat people would become when they realize their eating habits have become expensive to maintain.

The way I see it, rising obesity is the next thing after smoking that we need to address as a society. There is some degree of validity to the point that medical expenses related to obesity are also preventable and we should work toward making people just as acutely aware of the negative health and medical cost consequences associated with obesity as we we make them about the consequences of smoking. But of the two, smoking is the lower hanging fruit. People still have to eat to live. It's a simple biological fact. Food sustains life but too much food (coupled with not enough exercise) is bad just like too much of just about anything else in excess. On the other hand, nobody has to smoke to live. It's a completely voluntary act which can become compulsive once the person has become addicted. Obesity is a multidimensional societal problem with many different possible root causes depending on the person. Smoking is pretty much a substance abuse/addiction problem. They have 12 step programs for that stuff. Maybe some of the problems that cause obesity overlap with some of the reasons why people smoke (turn to food/cigs as a crutch). But overall I think obesity is a far more complex issue. So of the two problems I'd think smoking would be the easier to solve.

 

[WelshBloke]

If only it were so simple. If only the societal effects of the health consequences smokers suffer really were felt by them and them alone. Oh what a simple world must be the one in which you live. When the consequences of what somebody else does in their "private life" start affecting my quality of life, it becomes my business.

Somebody smoking in their own home affects your quality of life?

 

[Blackjack200]

Somebody smoking in their own home affects your quality of life?

I'm curious about this too. I haven't seen anyone in this thread criticize 'no smoking at work' policies. This is about a piss test for nicotine.

 

[OutHouse]

If only it were so simple. If only the societal effects of the health consequences smokers suffer really were felt by them and them alone. Oh what a simple world must be the one in which you live. When the consequences of what somebody else does in their "private life" start affecting my quality of life, it becomes my business.

please explain to us what a person does in his PRIVATE LIFE its ANY of your business?

 

[Fritzo]

please explain to us what a person does in his PRIVATE LIFE its ANY of your business?

Your clothes carry your smoke crap to work, where your co-workers get to breathe it in.

If you smoke at home, there's no way you're not going to be smoking in your car and outside of the building. You might as well put plutonium in your pockets and irradiate everyone around you.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ped/content/ped_10_2x_secondhand_smoke-clean_indoor_air.asp

At work
The workplace is a major source of secondhand smoke exposure for adults. Secondhand smoke meets the standard to be classified as a potential cancer-causing agent by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the federal agency responsible for health and safety regulations in the workplace. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), another federal agency, also recommends that secondhand smoke be considered a possible carcinogen in the workplace. Because there are no known safe levels, they recommend that exposures to secondhand smoke be reduced to the lowest possible levels.
Secondhand smoke in the workplace has been linked to an increased risk for heart disease and lung cancer among adult non-smokers. The Surgeon General has said that smoke-free workplace policies are the only way to do away with secondhand smoke exposure at work. Separating smokers from non-smokers, cleaning the air, and ventilating the building cannot prevent exposure if people still smoke inside the building. An extra bonus other than protecting non-smokers is that workplace smoking restrictions may also encourage smokers to quit.

 

[ahurtt]

Somebody smoking in their own home affects your quality of life?

If enough people do it and end up making claims on their health insurance because of smoking related illnesses which causes a general rise in premiums for everybody in the plan then yes. . .how do you not see it? It's called being able to mentally connect more than 2 dots and see a bigger picture than a one to one cause/effect relationship. Everybody wants to bitch and moan about how health care costs have spiraled out of control but nobody wants to do a fucking thing personally to help fix it. It's always "somebody else's problem" or "somebody else will fix it." Never anybody's fault. . .it's always that proverbial "their" fault. When will people own up their stubborn and social irresponsibility and admit that they are just as much a part of the problem as "those people" causing the problems we face? Auto insurance companies drop unsafe drivers. Why? In order to reduce claims and keep rates low for everyone else and remain competitive. Can you honestly not see how having a bunch of smokers on a health care insurance plan will not make costs higher for everybody?

 

[Blackjack200]

Your clothes carry your smoke crap to work, where your co-workers get to breathe it in.

If you smoke at home, there's no way you're not going to be smoking in your car and outside of the building. You might as well put plutonium in your pockets and irradiate everyone around you.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ped/content/ped_10_2x_secondhand_smoke-clean_indoor_air.asp

I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but I have a separate jacket that I wear when I smoke, and I don't wear it to work. Incidently, since I smoke in the evening, I always change my clothes and shower between when I smoke and when I work. And I never smoke in the car or at the office. No one at my office knows I smoke.

 

[Blackjack200]

If enough people do it and end up making claims on their health insurance because of smoking related illnesses which causes a general rise in premiums for everybody in the plan then yes. . .how do you not see it? It's called being able to mentally connect more than 2 dots and see a bigger picture than a one to one cause/effect relationship. Everybody wants to bitch and moan about how health care costs have spiraled out of control but nobody wants to do a fucking thing personally to help fix it.

You were talking about your quality of life.

My insurance plan charges more for individuals that have children, there's no reason they couldn't charge more for the smokers, obese, those with a family history of cancer, etc. etc.

 

[OutHouse]

Your clothes carry your smoke crap to work, where your co-workers get to breathe it in.

If you smoke at home, there's no way you're not going to be smoking in your car and outside of the building. You might as well put plutonium in your pockets and irradiate everyone around you.

lol lol lol dude that has to be the lamest, weakest crap i have ever read. my co-worker in the office next to me smokes and i should go running in there and yell "OMG YOU SMOKE AT HOME, YOU HAVE SMOKE IN YOUR CLOTHES IM GOING TO DIE BECUASE OF YOU!!!""

LOL LOL LOL LOL wow thanks for the laugh.

oh, i would like to know how the work place is the major source of second hand smoke when smoking inside at work is verboten and has been for many many years.

 

[WelshBloke]

If enough people do it and end up making claims on their health insurance because of smoking related illnesses which causes a general rise in premiums for everybody in the plan then yes. . .how do you not see it? It's called being able to mentally connect more than 2 dots and see a bigger picture than a one to one cause/effect relationship. Everybody wants to bitch and moan about how health care costs have spiraled out of control but nobody wants to do a fucking thing personally to help fix it.

Right your going after smokers and then fatties, as you said earlier.

I presume your against illegal drugs and if your going to be consistent you'll include drinkers in there as well.

So what next after those?
What about sports that have high incidences of injury?

I know, why dont we put everyone in a chemically induced coma. They couldnt do anything to harm themselves or your quality of life.

You chose to live in a society which values personal freedom for everyone not just you.

And, frankly, if people like you ever get in charge the last thing they will be complaining about is the cost of their healthcare. Theyll be to busy doing their government mandated exercises and avoiding the secret police.

 

[OutHouse]

If enough people do it and end up making claims on their health insurance because of smoking related illnesses which causes a general rise in premiums for everybody in the plan then yes. . .how do you not see it? It's called being able to mentally connect more than 2 dots and see a bigger picture than a one to one cause/effect relationship. Everybody wants to bitch and moan about how health care costs have spiraled out of control but nobody wants to do a fucking thing personally to help fix it. It's always "somebody else's problem" or "somebody else will fix it." Never anybody's fault. . .it's always that proverbial "their" fault. When will people own up their stubborn and social irresponsibility and admit that they are just as much a part of the problem as "those people" causing the problems we face? Auto insurance companies drop unsafe drivers. Why? In order to reduce claims and keep rates low for everyone else and remain competitive. Can you honestly not see how having a bunch of smokers on a health care insurance plan will not make costs higher for everybody?

you drank the kool-aid haven't you.

 

[ahurtt]

please explain to us what a person does in his PRIVATE LIFE its ANY of your business?

Little that anybody does is really truly private with no consequences to others. We're all in it together on this little blue marble floating through the cosmos and people need to start realizing that. If reading this thread hasn't already answered your question then it's hopeless for you I suppose. The fact that you fail to see how the habit of smoking is nothing but a drag on society as a whole does not invalidate the point.

 

[Blackjack200]

Little that anybody does is really truly private with no consequences to others. We're all in it together on this little blue marble floating through the cosmos and people need to start realizing that. If reading this thread hasn't already answered your question then it's hopeless for you I suppose. The fact that you fail to see how the habit of smoking is nothing but a drag on society as a whole does not invalidate the point.

Edit: In other words, you can't explain.

Let's have a new rule that all houses must be made of glass with no curtains and the lights on all the time.

I mean, you don't have anything to hide do you. hmm?

 

[OutHouse]

Little that anybody does is really truly private with no consequences to others. We're all in it together on this little blue marble floating through the cosmos and people need to start realizing that. If reading this thread hasn't already answered your question then it's hopeless for you I suppose. The fact that you fail to see how the habit of smoking is nothing but a drag on society as a whole does not invalidate the point.

oh boy. i feel like i just read a seseme street skit.

everybody join hands now, lets sing a song, named We Are All in this Together!!!

yippeeeeeeee!!!

dude here is clue. stay the fuck out of my and others private lives. the world isnt your fucking HOA.

 

[ahurtt]

you drank the kool-aid haven't you.

Kool-aid is full of sugar which is empty calories and will make you fat. Also it has a lot of artificial coloring in it which may cause cancer. So no.

 

[ahurtt]

oh boy. i feel like i just read a seseme street skit.

everybody join hands now, lets sing a song, named We Are All in this Together!!!

yippeeeeeeee!!!

dude here is clue. stay the fuck out of my and others private lives. the world isnt your fucking HOA.

Ok then if you smoke, you drop outta your health care plan and I'll leave you alone. You get outta my life, I'll get outta yours.

 

[OutHouse]

Ok then if you smoke, you drop outta your health care plan and I'll leave you alone. You get outta my life, I'll get outta yours.

sorry i dont smoke.

 

[ahurtt]

Edit: In other words, you can't explain.

Let's have a new rule that all houses must be made of glass with no curtains and the lights on all the time.

I mean, you don't have anything to hide do you. hmm?

I have already explained as have many others. You haven't bothered to read and I'm not repeating myself any more.

 

[ahurtt]

sorry i dont smoke.

Well don't take it so literally when I say "you." By "you" I meant anybody who does smoke and has your attitude and naive viewpoint. But I think you knew that.

 

[ahurtt]

You were talking about your quality of life.

My insurance plan charges more for individuals that have children, there's no reason they couldn't charge more for the smokers, obese, those with a family history of cancer, etc. etc.

Right. . .so as my health care premiums continue to go up year after year (despite that I continue to take care of myself and rarely if ever make claims) that means less and less money I can pocket and bring home which means I have to now make due with a little less hence. . .lower quality of life. . .or maybe standard of living would have been a better term. Anyway, point being, it doesn't make things better. And it's due in part to the deliberate and irresponsible actions of others. I have no problem with insurance companies hiking rates on smokers and obese people but only if they have first given them the choice to participate in cessation or weight control programs (covered of course) and the individuals have neglected to participate opting instead to simply pay more. In fact I wish they would all do something like this. But the problem is it's easy to lie about things like smoking for quite a long time and get away with it. . .at least until it comes time to pay the piper and you get cancer and then it becomes pretty clear that ones lungs are caked in tar despite the fact that said individual was supposedly a non-smoker. And then what happens?

 

[ahurtt]

Right your going after smokers and then fatties, as you said earlier.

I presume your against illegal drugs and if your going to be consistent you'll include drinkers in there as well.

So what next after those?
What about sports that have high incidences of injury?

I know, why dont we put everyone in a chemically induced coma. They couldnt do anything to harm themselves or your quality of life.

You chose to live in a society which values personal freedom for everyone not just you.

And, frankly, if people like you ever get in charge the last thing they will be complaining about is the cost of their healthcare. Theyll be to busy doing their government mandated exercises and avoiding the secret police.

You presume correctly. I am against pretty much anything which has no redeeming social value and only serves to lower and debase our society and overall standards of living and quality of life. Any system which allows you to socialize losses and concentrate gains is a broken system. Needless to say we have a lot of broken systems and health care is only one of them. Obviously you are resorting to exaggeration of my point of view by citing sports (which participating in regularly can have measurable beneficial impact on your overall health and physical fitness because they can be considered exercise) and you are veering off into the realm of the absurd because you are running out of concrete and sensible arguments (not that you had any to begin with). Hyperbole is the tool of the desperate.

 

[Red Dawn]

Ok then if you smoke, you drop outta your health care plan and I'll leave you alone. You get outta my life, I'll get outta yours.

Nobody's telling you what you can or cannot eat. If you aren't a fat pig yet odds are you will be by the time you're 45. Lose weight and we'll stop mocking you and hopefully discriminating against you because your weight and lack of conditioning is driving up the cost of our Health Ins.