Is it just me or does it seem like the Middle Class is Dying?

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: Darkstar757
I know this is a rant. But as of late I swear I see the divide between the rich and the poor is huge. I am so sick of seeing reports of CEO's getting a Christmas bonus of 53million. I work hard all year round and the goverenment is taxing the fscking crap out of me. The rich just setup companies and play the crooked good ole boy game. I just feel like the American concept of the Middle Class is dying at a crazy pace.


Im soooo pissed.

:|

Why are you pissed? Do you think those CEO's were born into their positions? What's stopping you from setting the bar high and aim for the top spot?

Have you ever read any of those people's biographies? Many of the come from very poor environment and became who they are today through hard work and dedication.

For every 1 who made it are thousands of others who tried just as hard and never got there. Don't discount the role that luck and natural ability has in these people's success.

"Luck" is a myth. Yes, natural ability or talent is important. But so is ambition and the willingness to take chances and not settle for a "secure paycheck."

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Perhaps if you get off the couch and look for them you might find some.

Just another example to show your arrogance. I make more sitting my ass on the couch than you do exposing yourself to all kinds of crap, but it isn't about what we make. The conversation is about what it mean to the AVERAGE AMERICAN and jobs where you can make that kind of money being uneducated are pretty rare (never mind more dangerous - I would never do that type of work, I value my life and family too much).

Ohh ... and perhaps your lack on education prohibits you from doing much math, but a household income of 120K (even by the link you quoted) puts you into the upper 25% WHICH by definition is NOT the middle!

So what you are trying to imply is that one out of every 4 Americans is rich?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
WTF does communism have to do with the Middle Class dying? Try staying on topic if you want to argue seriously.

Socialism has a lot to do with our declining middle class. Socialist laws have allowed the rich to stay at that level while keeping anyone else from reaching their status.

Which "Socialist" laws?

Sounds like BlancoNino has no idea what socialism is.

Progressive taxes, government regulation, sales tax, medicare, property tax, welfare, alcohol & tobacco tax, etc...

Taxing people is an effective way for government to take away a person's freedom.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER
The median income in this country for a 5 person household is just around 51K - that must be b/c everyone doesn't have the "drive" to do better for themselves. My guess would be you grew or are growing (as your narrow minded opinion suggests) up in a upper middle class area and school where you take all the opportunities that you have for granted. Not everyone has those types of things within their reach. Asshat.

I had to revisit this for a moment. The median HOUSEHOLD income in your area is 51K? Thats 26K a piece for a two parent working family. Just a question, do the majority of the people in your area use the phrase "would you like fries with that" during their normal workday?

What kind a educated adult makes 26K a year? If you enjoy your job and don't mind the money than great, but if your upset about the fact that you make the same money as a burger flipper then do something about it.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
WTF does communism have to do with the Middle Class dying? Try staying on topic if you want to argue seriously.

Socialism has a lot to do with our declining middle class. Socialist laws have allowed the rich to stay at that level while keeping anyone else from reaching their status.

This is what's wrong with the liberal mindset. "Allowed" the rich to stay at that level? It's the role of the government to not allow people to become wealthy? And maybe to ensure the underpriveledged are brought up to everyone else's level? I'm sorry, I think communism is wrong.

 

[Blazin Trav]

Maybe you should just work harder and take more chances, my dad was a partner at 34, you can do that too if you just put your mind to it, I'm sure.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
WTF does communism have to do with the Middle Class dying? Try staying on topic if you want to argue seriously.

Socialism has a lot to do with our declining middle class. Socialist laws have allowed the rich to stay at that level while keeping anyone else from reaching their status.

Which "Socialist" laws?

Sounds like BlancoNino has no idea what socialism is.

Progressive taxes, government regulation, sales tax, medicare, property tax, welfare, alcohol & tobacco tax, etc...

Taxing people is an effective way for government to take away a person's freedom.

While those are socialist programs I fail to see how any of them "allow the rich to stay at that level." I can see how they may hinder becoming rich, but since newly wealthy people spring up every day in this country, his post still makes no sense.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'm middle class and i'm sure as hell not complaining. I couldn't ask for a better life, seriously.

Same here. I make a pretty fair wage for what I do and I'm not stupid enough to have gotten myself neck deep in debt. My monthly bills are a bit more than half of my income, and if I want something reasonable, I can purchase it.

I don't really know what else I could ask for. I mean, sure, I'd love to have $50 billion, but that's simply not reasonable. I turned down a future of $100K/yr pay because I hated the job. Now I make about half of that and I love going to work.

For those of you who are unhappy, look at why that is. Are you spending more than you can afford to? If so, why? You probably won't ever become rich, so you might as well spend the time that you have being happy.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'm middle class and i'm sure as hell not complaining. I couldn't ask for a better life, seriously.

Same here. I make a pretty fair wage for what I do and I'm not stupid enough to have gotten myself neck deep in debt. My monthly bills are a bit more than half of my income, and if I want something reasonable, I can purchase it.

I don't really know what else I could ask for. I mean, sure, I'd love to have $50 billion, but that's simply not reasonable. I turned down a future of $100K/yr pay because I hated the job. Now I make about half of that and I love going to work.

For those of you who are unhappy, look at why that is. Are you spending more than you can afford to? If so, why? You probably won't ever become rich, so you might as well spend the time that you have being happy.

Edit: Spelling

Truth, Quoted For

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'm middle class and i'm sure as hell not complaining. I couldn't ask for a better life, seriously.

Same here. I make a pretty fair wage for what I do and I'm not stupid enough to have gotten myself neck deep in debt. My monthly bills are a bit more than half of my income, and if I want something reasonable, I can purchase it.

I don't really know what else I could ask for. I mean, sure, I'd love to have $50 billion, but that's simply not reasonable. I turned down a future of $100K/yr pay because I hated the job. Now I make about half of that and I love going to work.

For those of you who are unhappy, look at why that is. Are you spending more than you can afford to? If so, why? You probably won't ever become rich, so you might as well spend the time that you have being happy.

Edit: Spelling

Truth, Quoted For

let me also add, why be pissed at the CEOs that are getting rewarded for thier jobs?

Why not get pissed at the guy who is an alcholic, beats his wife, kicks the dog and just happens to in the local gas -n-go buying a 40 and decides on a whim to plop down a few bucks on the lottery and ends up being the only winner in a 105 million drawing?

Does he deserve that money?

The ONLY people complaining about this are the ones whe do not have the same kind of money that others are getting. The OP and others who complain clearly would rather whine about what they don't have rather than take that energy and put it to trying to make that kind of money.

 

[Darkstar757]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'm middle class and i'm sure as hell not complaining. I couldn't ask for a better life, seriously.

Same here. I make a pretty fair wage for what I do and I'm not stupid enough to have gotten myself neck deep in debt. My monthly bills are a bit more than half of my income, and if I want something reasonable, I can purchase it.

I don't really know what else I could ask for. I mean, sure, I'd love to have $50 billion, but that's simply not reasonable. I turned down a future of $100K/yr pay because I hated the job. Now I make about half of that and I love going to work.

For those of you who are unhappy, look at why that is. Are you spending more than you can afford to? If so, why? You probably won't ever become rich, so you might as well spend the time that you have being happy.

Edit: Spelling

Truth, Quoted For

let me also add, why be pissed at the CEOs that are getting rewarded for thier jobs?

Why not get pissed at the guy who is an alcholic, beats his wife, kicks the dog and just happens to in the local gas -n-go buying a 40 and decides on a whim to plop down a few bucks on the lottery and ends up being the only winner in a 105 million drawing?

Does he deserve that money?

The ONLY people complaining about this are the ones whe do not have the same kind of money that others are getting. The OP and others who complain clearly would rather whine about what they don't have rather than take that energy and put it to trying to make that kind of money.

DUDE STFU


You have no idea what you are talking about. I work hard as hell each and every day. So fsck off with your BS comments.

 

[Red Dawn]

It's still alive and well here!

 

[FoBoT]

i don't buy into this, i see the middle class as strong as ever

they might be over spending themselves, they see rich people on TV and want to much crap, but there are plenty of middle class where i live that are doing fine

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
The middle class is shrinking, but the problem is where those middle class people are going and I fear far too many are falling rather than rising.

Why do you fear it? This makes ATr's very happy as you can see by the posts.

 

[JACKHAMMER]

Originally posted by: Darwin333


So what you are trying to imply is that one out of every 4 Americans is rich?

Not rich, but approaching upper class - hey,you are doing better than 75% of the people in this country.


q]Originally posted by: Darwin333
[What kind a educated adult makes 26K a year? If you enjoy your job and don't mind the money than great, but if your upset about the fact that you make the same money as a burger flipper then do something about it.
[/quote]

I completely agree, but just realize class mobility isn't as fluid as some think.

 

[Juno]

so if middle class is omitted from the class, i'm rich then?

 

[JACKHAMMER]

Originally posted by: Juno
so if middle class is omitted from the class, i'm rich then?

What?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Darkstar757

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
I'm middle class and i'm sure as hell not complaining. I couldn't ask for a better life, seriously.

Same here. I make a pretty fair wage for what I do and I'm not stupid enough to have gotten myself neck deep in debt. My monthly bills are a bit more than half of my income, and if I want something reasonable, I can purchase it.

I don't really know what else I could ask for. I mean, sure, I'd love to have $50 billion, but that's simply not reasonable. I turned down a future of $100K/yr pay because I hated the job. Now I make about half of that and I love going to work.

For those of you who are unhappy, look at why that is. Are you spending more than you can afford to? If so, why? You probably won't ever become rich, so you might as well spend the time that you have being happy.

Edit: Spelling

Truth, Quoted For

let me also add, why be pissed at the CEOs that are getting rewarded for thier jobs?

Why not get pissed at the guy who is an alcholic, beats his wife, kicks the dog and just happens to in the local gas -n-go buying a 40 and decides on a whim to plop down a few bucks on the lottery and ends up being the only winner in a 105 million drawing?

Does he deserve that money?

The ONLY people complaining about this are the ones whe do not have the same kind of money that others are getting. The OP and others who complain clearly would rather whine about what they don't have rather than take that energy and put it to trying to make that kind of money.

DUDE STFU


You have no idea what you are talking about. I work hard as hell each and every day. So fsck off with your BS comments.

As has already been established, simply working hard is not enough. A ditch digger works harder than you, yet earns less money. If you want to make more, you have to take risks, be ambitious, and find your talents. Hard work is only a part of it.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Amused
While those are socialist programs I fail to see how any of them "allow the rich to stay at that level." I can see how they may hinder becoming rich, but since newly wealthy people spring up every day in this country, his post still makes no sense.

Why don't you rewind and look 60 years ago. Our country has leaned way more toward socialism and nannyism today than 60 years ago, and we have a much smaller middle class by some people's definition.

Socialism makes it harder to move up, while protecting those who are already at the top.

E.G. -- If a government passes a business regulation, it makes it that much harder to START a business and CAN lead to a business that is barely getting by to go out of business. This big businesses can deal with the laws or hire expensive lawyers to find ways around them, and with the small businesses out of the way and with the entry barriers to starting a business being tougher, there will be less competition.

And, what better way is there to create a demand for higher wages, than to create a demand for skilled workers with competitive companies?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Amused
While those are socialist programs I fail to see how any of them "allow the rich to stay at that level." I can see how they may hinder becoming rich, but since newly wealthy people spring up every day in this country, his post still makes no sense.

Why don't you rewind and look 60 years ago. Our country has leaned way more toward socialism and nannyism today than 60 years ago, and we have a much smaller middle class by some people's definition.

Socialism makes it harder to move up, while protecting those who are already at the top.

E.G. -- If a government passes a business regulation, it makes it that much harder to START a business and CAN lead to a business that is barely getting by to go out of business. This big businesses can deal with the laws or hire expensive lawyers to find ways around them, and with the small businesses out of the way and with the entry barriers to starting a business being tougher, there will be less competition.

And, what better way is there to create a demand for higher wages, than to create a demand for skilled workers with competitive companies?

The upper class has increased in those years, thus destroying your argument.

However, I will agree that the move towards a nanny socialist state is extremely harmful to business. But I think it's just as harmful to large businesses as it is to small ones.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: Amused
However, I will agree that the move towards a nanny socialist state is extremely harmful to business. But I think it's just as harmful to large businesses as it is to small ones.

I don't...I think it makes it a less competitive environment for the large ones since the entry barrier for the small ones becomes much tougher to get through.

The upper class has increased in those years, thus destroying your argument.

I guess I'm not following what that's supposed to mean or how that destroys my argument.

BTW, if people would follow these tips, there would be less lower-class people.

1. Don't go out and drink/party/club at night because you have a tight budget. It is fun, yes, but if you want to move up and have more money, you will save your money instead of doing this. This also includes lots of drinking/drugs.

2. Don't have kids. Seriously, just keep your pants on...not that hard.

3. Go to work...and work hard.

4. Be friendly with as many people as possible.

5. Don't blow your money on stupid stuff. Nothing frustrates me more than seeing a lower-class person finally make more money for some breathing room, only to see them spend it on a new car or some other useless thing they don't need.

If you follow these...you will move up if you try.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: Amused
While those are socialist programs I fail to see how any of them "allow the rich to stay at that level." I can see how they may hinder becoming rich, but since newly wealthy people spring up every day in this country, his post still makes no sense.

Why don't you rewind and look 60 years ago. Our country has leaned way more toward socialism and nannyism today than 60 years ago, and we have a much smaller middle class by some people's definition.

Socialism makes it harder to move up, while protecting those who are already at the top.

E.G. -- If a government passes a business regulation, it makes it that much harder to START a business and CAN lead to a business that is barely getting by to go out of business. This big businesses can deal with the laws or hire expensive lawyers to find ways around them, and with the small businesses out of the way and with the entry barriers to starting a business being tougher, there will be less competition.

And, what better way is there to create a demand for higher wages, than to create a demand for skilled workers with competitive companies?

The upper class has increased in those years, thus destroying your argument.

However, I will agree that the move towards a nanny socialist state is extremely harmful to business. But I think it's just as harmful to large businesses as it is to small ones.

I still believe socialist policies allow the Rich to stay rich and the poor stay poor. These laws create barriers to entry to NEW entrepreneurs who will become the future "rich." In a socialist society, the rich stay rich because once already there, it is hard to "lose" wealth short of a facist takeaway and the poor stay poor because of the barriers to entry for creating wealth (whether created themselves or new opportunities created by investment by the rich).

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Amused
As has already been established, simply working hard is not enough. A ditch digger works harder than you, yet earns less money. If you want to make more, you have to take risks, be ambitious, and find your talents. Hard work is only a part of it.

yes hard work is part of it.

everyone has the chance to a success. not everyone has the ability. Its a combination of hard work, intelligence, ability and luck.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I guess I'm not following what that's supposed to mean or how that destroys my argument.

BTW, if people would follow these tips, there would be less lower-class people.

1. Don't go out and drink/party/club at night because you have a tight budget. It is fun, yes, but if you want to move up and have more money, you will save your money instead of doing this. This also includes lots of drinking/drugs.

2. Don't have kids. Seriously, just keep your pants on...not that hard.

3. Go to work...and work hard.

4. Be friendly with as many people as possible.

5. Don't blow your money on stupid stuff. Nothing frustrates me more than seeing a lower-class person finally make more money for some breathing room, only to see them spend it on a new car or some other useless thing they don't need.

If you follow these...you will move up if you try.

1) you can go out. in fact you need to do something. even if it is going out a night (not every night or more then once) or having hobby.


2) i disagree. i would rather be middle class with kids then upper class without.

3) good advice. but not only work hard, work smarter. get yourself a good education and find something you enjoy

4) very good advice. seems like common sense. but the most successful men i know are kind to everyone. From the janitor to his business partners.

5) yeah. as i said i think the idea of middle class has changed. they buy huge houses, new cars every 3 years, and just a bunch of wasted money on stuff they do not need. you do not need to keep up with the Jones

 

[gogeeta13]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Gulzakar
I swear, most of you on this board play the devils advocate...In fact, most of you are douche bags.

He's angry about the salary of CEO's and the shrinking middle class. Most of you tell him "stop whining, blah blah blah"...most likely because nobody cares what you say in real life. Honestly, give him a break, he's angry because he works hard and gets paid squat.

Let's say he does have a roof over his head and food in his belly, is it not ok for him to want more? I swear, most of you are pricks.

Bottom line,

Why does somebody deserve a 50 million dollar bonus? If what most of you are saying is true, then the receiver of this should be happy with a tiny fraction of it because he has a roof over his head.

If you work 120 hours a week and run a company that made $9 billion PROFIT, then yes, you deserve a $50 million bonus.

EXACTLY.

A lot of you that are bitching about how unfair life is don't know what fair is. I am an entrepreneur. I am very good at leadership, have a very versatile mind and I am an extremely hard worker. These are some characteristics of a CEO, which is one of the many roles I play.

CEOs bust their ass. They may take tropical vacations, own yachts, own 50 cars, own 3 houses, etc, but they work for it. Most CEOs have in worked through start-ups at times in their lives. When you are the CEO of a start up, you make every sacrifice, including pay. Imagine working 80-120 hours a week for 5 years WITH NO PAY. Imagine not seeing your friends, not seeing your family, not listening to your Ipod or music in your car because you are on the phone all the time. Imagine no time for tv, no time to see your significant other, no time for leisure. This is the lifestyle many CEOs have lived. And after (likely) decades of incredibly hard work, it finally pays off. They bring a company to billions of dollars in sales. But since this company is public, imagine they only have 5% of equity. 5% is not very much, considering in past ventures, that same CEO could have had 50% or more equity. But nonetheless, if a CEO leads a company to billions of dollars in profit, they deserve their share. I bet that every fortune 500 CEO has worked harder than 95% of the American public. This is also why they are making 95% more than the American public.

Remember, if you worked 120 hours a week at a $10/hour job that paid 1.5X overtime, you'd bring down almost $80,000 a year.

So, before you criticize people who make more than you, think about it logically. Nobody would be paying these CEOs millions a year if they weren't truly worth it.