is it legal to ask for ID when using a CC?

[Adrenaline]

I go 1 step further. I write "See ID" on the back of my cards. Sadly only about 10% of merchants actually bother to ask me for my ID, even when the back of the card reminds\instructs them too.

I heard somewhere that writing "See ID" actually voids that credit card because it is not a valid signature. Can anyone confirm this?

I doubt a business would turn down money, but am still curious.

 

[swanysto]

CC companies love when merchants don't check ID's or signatures. CC companies make tons of money off fraud from their insurance companies.

 

[vshah]

The gal I am dating recently switched to BoA and her CC has her photo on it, never seen a photo ID on the CC itself before.

i've had my picture on my CC for the past 7 years through my credit union

 

[bobdole369]

Assuming the credit card is signed and a MasterCard (or Visa)...

is it legal to refuse the use of that card assuming ID can't be provided?

I don't see how that is any different than like asking, "Can I see your phone??" or something else unrelated...

It is legal to do anything that isn't explicitly illegal.

Thus as a merchant, they can ask for anything they want, being that it isn't illegal for them to ask to see your tits (provided the persons in question are all adults), to see your phone, to read your shirt, to ask for an email address, or anything else. As long as what they are asking for is not explicitly illegal: This would be something like: "Let me see that you are Hispanic before I sell you something". And even then, it's probably not illegal because most private businesses reserve the right to serve whoever they want. Even Denny's. You have the right to not buy anything from that merchant. Discrimination and whatnot is illegal, but good luck proving that.

As a merchant, they have a responsibility through the CC processor to verify the identity of the cardholder, and responsible merchants always ask for it. THis is to ensure that they won't get slapped with a chargeback.

I heard somewhere that writing "See ID" actually voids that credit card because it is not a valid signature. Can anyone confirm this?

Depends on the bank. Most require a valid signature in that spot. It's not a law or anything. Businesses that accept these are asking for trouble as the photo ID could be fake. In most cases the teenybopper taking your Visa for your pack of smokes, blunt-wrap, diet Pepsi, and bag of Funyuns ***should*** ask for your ID with the card, compare the signatures on the photo ID to the card, and verify that it matches the one they write on the receipt. It's almost guaranteed then that the person using the card is the cardholder.

 

[Felisity]

Interesting discussion. I use to put "please see id" or leave my cards blank.

I thought I was protecting myself by doing so....

 

[Genx87]

It is an interesting scenario regarding putting See ID and people getting a fake. From my perspective I would hope by the time they arranged to create a fake ID, I have already cancelled the card. And I am sure it wouldnt be hard for them to fake the signature on the fake ID to be an exact match on the card either.

I'd rather they check an ID and force them to make a fake than just hope.

 

[TheVrolok]

Where I work its company policy to ask for your ID with your CC. If you can't provide it or it doesn't match we aren't allowed to run the card. It's to prevent CC fraud and theft. I don't see why people get in such a tissy when asked. It literally takes an extra 20 seconds to pull it out and have it checked. I for one have no problems with people asking and would prefer everyone asked. That way if my card was ever stolen I know it wouldn't be falsely charged.

I guarantee you if you had your CC stolen and the balance run up you'd be all for ID's being checked.

I like it when someone asks me for my ID.

 

[KeithTalent]

Interesting discussion. I use to put "please see id" or leave my cards blank.

I thought I was protecting myself by doing so....

How did you think it was protecting you? Not being a jerk, I'm genuinely curious as I have never thought to do that. :hmm:

KT

 

[QueBert]

CC companies love when merchants don't check ID's or signatures. CC companies make tons of money off fraud from their insurance companies.

How's that? If a store accepts a card that's used for fraud the stores responsible to foot the bill. The person defrauded will get all the $ back, and the store will be out money. Visa see's nothing extra money wise here. On the down side, there are stores that LOSE their merchant account from this which = no more $$$ from them for Visa. And people will sometimes cancel their card out of anger and frustration. Where are they making this "tons of money" from? If my card's stolen and used to buy $500 worth of shit Visa isn't going to see anything because I'm going to get my $$$ back. Even if Visa gets the money from their insurance it's going right back to whoever got defrauded. I guess Visa might make out on smaller transfers that people don't notice or report. But it's not like if a thief racks up $10g's on your Visa that Visa's magically going to see more money. There's no upside to fraud, Visa definitely doesn't want it to happen. That's why their policy is to 1. check for an signature on the back and then 2. match up the signature. I have yet to meet a person who can even remotely come close to forging my signature. But Fake ID's are easy as fuck to come by. Especially for people who do CC fraud on a regular basis.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

So here's a question to everyone:

Has anyone reported a store that:

1) Asks for ID for a CC transaction

-OR-

2) Has a minimum charge for CC transactions?

BOTH are in violation of MasterCard, VISA, and AMEX TOS. I'm not sure about Discover, but I imagine it'd be the same. I feel like this should be done but obviously 99% of people are too lazy to report these stores. Too many of them are around.

 

[Gooberlx2]

How did you think it was protecting you? Not being a jerk, I'm genuinely curious as I have never thought to do that.

The way I see it. If I put "please ask for ID" (or both a signature and "see ID"), the store clerk might hopefully check both for matching signatures and names, and possibly that I look like me. If the thief doesn't have a matching ID, then I'd want them to stop the transaction and bust the fucker for theft and fraud....or at least kick him outta the store and I have one less transaction to dispute when I call the CC's fraud dept.

If my signature hasn't rubbed off, I've never seen a store clerk actually examine it for a match. Hell, I can't even match my own signature well when using the digital pads.

 

[Nik]

Assuming the credit card is signed and a MasterCard (or Visa)...

is it legal to refuse the use of that card assuming ID can't be provided?

I don't see how that is any different than like asking, "Can I see your phone??" or something else unrelated...

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

You bet your ass it's legal.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The way I see it. If I put "please ask for ID" (or both a signature and "see ID"), the store clerk might hopefully check both for matching signatures and names, and possibly that I look like me. If the thief doesn't have a matching ID, then I'd want them to stop the transaction and bust the fucker for theft and fraud....or at least kick him outta the store and I have one less transaction to dispute when I call the CC's fraud dept.

If my signature hasn't rubbed off, I've never seen a store clerk actually examine it for a match. Hell, I can't even match my own signature well when using the digital pads.

I don't even try anymore. Ever since some Target employee had to use a printed receipt and his pen was broken and told me to scribble something with my FINGERNAILS, I said f-that and started just drawing a scribbled line horizontally. Like literally 0.3 second mark.. almost like a checkmark or something.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Legal, yes. Against their merchant service agreement, yes.

Where I work its company policy to ask for your ID with your CC. If you can't provide it or it doesn't match we aren't allowed to run the card. It's to prevent CC fraud and theft. I don't see why people get in such a tissy when asked. It literally takes an extra 20 seconds to pull it out and have it checked. I for one have no problems with people asking and would prefer everyone asked. That way if my card was ever stolen I know it wouldn't be falsely charged.

I guarantee you if you had your CC stolen and the balance run up you'd be all for ID's being checked.

Signature on the back is all that's legally required, it's not hard to get a fake ID, but it's very hard to fake a persons signature. Any store that requires me to show my ID and ends up not letting me purchase, I call Visa directly and report them. I would much rather have them match up my signature then ask for an ID. I've worked retail and if a store gets 2-3 of these complaints from customers who were forced to show ID, Visa will get involved, as they should. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Visa knows much more about how to prevent fraud than a person working behind a register. They require a signature on the back over showing ID for a reason.

The reason that stores ask for ID, is that it allows them to verify the charge, legally speaking. See, the whole thing about the Visa (or other) Merchant agreement, is that it's one-sided, to the benefit of Visa. You know that thing about how you are only liable for $50 of your credit card bill in case of fraud or theft? Well, Visa makes the merchant foot the bill for that, they don't reimburse the merchant. So, in order to provide legal protection against fraudulent chargebacks, they ask for ID to verify the charge is not fraudulent, in a manner that will hold up in court, should it ever get that far.

I'm all for merchants asking for ID when using a CC, it prevents fraud, and it also prevents fraudulent chargebacks, some of which can literally ruin a business. Visa's merchant agreement be damned.

 

[Locut0s]

When I worked at 7-11 company policy was to ask for ID for ALL purchases over about 100 bucks. And sometimes to verify the card by calling it in! Course we got TONS of credit card charge backs from stolen cards.

 

[KeithTalent]

When I worked at 7-11 company policy was to ask for ID for ALL purchases over about 100 bucks. And sometimes to verify the card by calling it in! Course we got TONS of credit card charge backs from stolen cards.

Who the heck spends $100 on one purchase at a 7-11? :hmm:

KT

 

[Scouzer]

Mastercard Merchant Agreement:

A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely
because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment
of a card at the POI [point of interaction] refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder’s ZIP or postal code to complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder’s address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce transaction.

 

[txrandom]

Can't use your card at the Post Office if it's unsigned, or if it says "See ID" or the like. They check every time.

Yep, this is the only place I've ever had the cashier check my signature on the back.

 

[QueBert]

I'm all for merchants asking for ID when using a CC, it prevents fraud, and it also prevents fraudulent chargebacks, some of which can literally ruin a business. Visa's merchant agreement be damned.

Again, a signature >>>>> a photo ID. I can easily get an ID with your name for next to nothing in about an hour. I couldn't forge your signature if I practiced every day for a year. I am not arguing that CC fraud is bad and needs to be stopped, but if merchants started checking the back for a signature and making a customer sign a physical copy of the receipt it would work out much better than asking for an ID. Visa's logic is correct, fake ID's are easy to come by, faking a signature is fucking difficult. Even an untrained eye can easily spot when a signature doesn't match up.

 

[Lithium381]

if it's not signed, they ask you for photo ID and you must sign in their presence before they can accept the card. if the card is signed you may NOT ask for secondary identification. yep, the CC companies don't care about fraud since they never bite the bullet, the retailers do. everyons' "signature" is a joke, both on paper and on the electronic pad.....everyone has the same sig....two little loops and a dot at the end, i see it hundreds of times a day... when asked about a fradulant charge.... "nope, not me, not my signature" and then the retailer eats it.

 

[SpiderX]

The reason that stores ask for ID, is that it allows them to verify the charge, legally speaking. See, the whole thing about the Visa (or other) Merchant agreement, is that it's one-sided, to the benefit of Visa. You know that thing about how you are only liable for $50 of your credit card bill in case of fraud or theft? Well, Visa makes the merchant foot the bill for that, they don't reimburse the merchant. So, in order to provide legal protection against fraudulent chargebacks, they ask for ID to verify the charge is not fraudulent, in a manner that will hold up in court, should it ever get that far.

I'm all for merchants asking for ID when using a CC, it prevents fraud, and it also prevents fraudulent chargebacks, some of which can literally ruin a business. Visa's merchant agreement be damned.

I absolutely agree. I manage a retail store and this is how I have my staff do transactions:

1. Signature present on card - accept normally
2. Signature present on card - transaction over $150 dollars - verify ID
3. Signature present on card - transaction over $400 (Consoles, sketchy purchases) dollars - verify ID - if out of province ID - call for authorization

Why? Because we see at least 1 person a week minimum come into the store and try to use a fake credit card. Often times it will be a Visa gift card with a fake strip. We had a rash of people trying to use fake cards with out of province ID, so I made it mandatory to do a call for authorization. Most times as soon as you do that, they have a change of mind grab the card and literally run out of the store.

4. Signature says "ask for ID" - discretionary - if the person hands over the ID without making a stink, no problem. If they get into a huff about it, then we won't accept the card. We shouldn't accept the card anyways, since it isn't properly signed. You have to pick your battles though.

5. If you have a card that most of the magnetic strip is worn off, and it won't scan on the debit machine or our tills, then we ask for another form of payment. We won't key the card in and do a manual swipe. Even though I've had the signature of the customer and done everything properly, Visa will give in to the customer no matter what.

Why go to these lengths? Because I'm going to do anything I can to avoid chargebacks. The card companies don't magically have this fund where they pay back people who have been defrauded. They take it right back from the retailer. So Merchant agreement or not, I'm going to do what I can to protect my bottom line.

So if showing your ID gets you in a huff, it's no skin off my ass. The store 2 blocks away, will most certainly take your card without asking for it.

 

[BTA]

I never understood people who dont carry their ID on them or get pissed off when a store asks to see it. Who gives a shit? It takes two seconds.

 

[Lithium381]

So here's a question to everyone:

Has anyone reported a store that:

1) Asks for ID for a CC transaction

-OR-

2) Has a minimum charge for CC transactions?

BOTH are in violation of MasterCard, VISA, and AMEX TOS. I'm not sure about Discover, but I imagine it'd be the same. I feel like this should be done but obviously 99% of people are too lazy to report these stores. Too many of them are around.

Here's another question to everyone:

Has anyone ever been to a store and the prices have gone up?

Credit Card Fraud is a contributor to this. As I said, VISA/MC don't give a fsck about the merchant. How about you? What have you done to stop the fraud? "Its not my problem that the merchants get screwed" Good luck with that.

 

[Powermoloch]

I never understood people who dont carry their ID on them or get pissed off when a store asks to see it. Who gives a shit? It takes two seconds.

^ this

and avoid fraud + charge backs.

What's the deal with people against stores who just wants to check ID? What's the difference if a cop stops you over and ask for your license + registration.

I'm sure hell broke lose if you can't provide a license to the cop.

 

[Locut0s]

Who the heck spends $100 on one purchase at a 7-11? :hmm:

KT

Things that imediately come to mind:

2 Zone bus pass $99
Carton of cigs (up to) $95
Whistler Ski Pass $79
Cell phone airtime vouchers (up to) $100
Cell phones (up to) $120

Take a couple of these and add a bunch of snacks and other groceries to make it seem a little bit more like a legit purchase and you immediately have several hundred. I can remember several families buying Ski Tickets that amounted to over $1000 on credit cards.

We sold hundreds of thousands of dollars in bus passes along at the end of every month. Had long line ups for bus passes on the 31st and 1st of the month. And we hardly made any money off those.