Is it OK to Declaw a Cat?

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Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 16, 2005
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You people who are comparing declawing to other surgical procedures that we have done on pets need some perspective. As a guy who has both had my appendix out, and lost a finger on my right hand, I can tell you that the latter is significantly more impactful than the former. In other words, removing internal organs to improve health or prevent other problems is one thing, while chopping off bits of the outside parts is quite another.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
You people who are comparing declawing to other surgical procedures that we have done on pets need some perspective. As a guy who has both had my appendix out, and lost a finger on my right hand, I can tell you that the latter is significantly more impactful than the former. In other words, removing internal organs to improve health or prevent other problems is one thing, while chopping off bits of the outside parts is quite another.

What if that organ was your testicles? You know, where your testosterone is produced. It would change your behavior and your life significantly.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Mine was $15 at Petsmart. Base with tower and small platform on top. Everything wrapped in carpet except half the tower is wrapped in twine or something (cat's favorite side). He loves the thing and often sits on top to beg for treats (I say he's "gargoyling" when he does that).

Would need to see a picture of a $15 cat tower.

Costco has them for around $80 once a year here, they are comparable to those costing $150-200 at PetsMart, Pet Supermarket and Petco.

Ours has lasted several years too.

Even a declawed cat will 'claw' at things instinctively and it does cause wear and tear.

Some cats are better than others.

In the end, if you are willing to house a pet and not need to declaw that is great....if it means giving the cat a home vs it's euthanasia I am sure the cat wouldn't mind the declawing.

De-sexing a pet is not a major alteration mentally...it will remove some aggression and mostly just bad traits to have (wanting to mate in season constantly and howling when they cannot, spraying / bleeding on things, etc).

That said, some cats will still spray despite de-sexing.
 

ThinClient

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2013
3,980
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Would need to see a picture of a $15 cat tower.

Costco has them for around $80 once a year here, they are comparable to those costing $150-200 at PetsMart, Pet Supermarket and Petco.

Ours has lasted several years too.

Even a declawed cat will 'claw' at things instinctively and it does cause wear and tear.

Some cats are better than others.

In the end, if you are willing to house a pet and not need to declaw that is great....if it means giving the cat a home vs it's euthanasia I am sure the cat wouldn't mind the declawing.

De-sexing a pet is not a major alteration mentally...it will remove some aggression and mostly just bad traits to have (wanting to mate in season constantly and howling when they cannot, spraying / bleeding on things, etc).

That said, some cats will still spray despite de-sexing.

http://www.petsmart.com/cat/furnitu...catid-200016?_t=pfm=category&pfmvalue=faceted
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Anything available for a cat that is 19 years old and is not able to jump anymore? Also climbing up vertical surfaces is obviously out. She would need ramps to climb but she can still jump down just fine.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Anything available for a cat that is 19 years old and is not able to jump anymore? Also climbing up vertical surfaces is obviously out. She would need ramps to climb but she can still jump down just fine.

They make pet steps in different heights for couches, beds, etc.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,907
0
76
Is this a somewhat regional thing? From skimming this thread it seems about 9:1 that it's a horrible travesty. But literally 100% of the cats that people I know have which are not outdoor cats are declawed. I honestly don't personally know one indoor cat with its front claws.

I don't have a cat. If I did, it would probably be strictly indoor and to be honest, most likely declawed. Although after seeing a lot of these threads over the last few years, I'd probably adopt a cat that was already declawed rather than getting one and then doing it.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,247
207
106
Maybe people that oppose declawing are less likely to be cat owners? I don't know, but I've had clawed cats and I'm mostly ambivalent on declawing. It can put a lot of strain on an old cat, but that normally just means that the healing period is a lot longer. As long as they're kept inside the odds of any real complications are really very low.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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What if that organ was your testicles? You know, where your testosterone is produced. It would change your behavior and your life significantly.

I agree. I think if they spay female pets there is no reason to cut the nuts off the male ones. Our lab was from a rescue shelter, and they castrated him at six weeks, which pissed our vet off because it was too early.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
I agree. I think if they spay female pets there is no reason to cut the nuts off the male ones. Our lab was from a rescue shelter, and they castrated him at six weeks, which pissed our vet off because it was too early.

From Caesar Milan:
Early neutering is a controversial topic. A very few uncontrolled studies have shown a link with early neuters (before 14 months of age) and some forms of cancer and joint problems. Both the joint problems and the cancers that they have linked are relatively common in large-boned dogs, so the challenge is to prove whether the early neuter actually caused an increase in the incidence. There have been no studies that prove this.
On the other hand, there have been several good studies done to look at different potential complications from early neutering (as early as 6 weeks of age) that have found no adverse effects other than slightly longer legs and less "masculine" muscle development. These pro-early neuter studies were not carried out long enough to evaluate the risk of cancer.
In my experience, dogs neutered under 6 months develop less obesity and don’t establish some of the “male” behaviors that neutering is meant to treat. They are also less likely to jump a fence, fight, or get hit by a car. With no true proof of the risk of increased cancer--and the very real risk of bad behaviors or even physical injury from running away or fighting--I am letting my clients make their own decisions based on a debatable risk of cancer vs. the very real behavioral risks.


Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/basicadvice/best-age-to-neuter-or-spay#ixzz3IWRjdayl

As stated above, male cats that are intact will spray to mark territory. If you don't neuter them early enough they will continue the habit of spraying usually.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
This is a more cogent argument than I am comfortable admitting. No one bats an eye at castrating an animal. Since there are all of the human analogies being thrown around here, how would you like to be castrated? How would you adapt?
Not to mention removing an animals reproductive organs and completely altering their hormonal balance is probably going to have a far greater behavioral impact than any "psychological damage" due to onychectomy. That's one of the whole benefits of spay/neuter (no heat, spraying, etc.).

That said, I would probably try to exhaust every other alternative prior to surgery. Why put your animal under the knife and through that if you don't have to? If everything else has been tried and it's a choice between either declawing the cat or it losing a loving home, going to the shelter, and potentially having to be euthanized, though, declawing is a no-brainer IMO. Just my $0.02.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Not to mention removing an animals reproductive organs and completely altering their hormonal balance is probably going to have a far greater behavioral impact than any "psychological damage" due to onychectomy. That's one of the whole benefits of spay/neuter (no heat, spraying, etc.).
Cat Behavior and Training - Cat Neutering and Behavior


Most male animals that are kept for companionship, work, or food production (stallions, dogs, tomcats, bulls, rams and boars) are neutered (castrated) unless they are intended to be used as breeding stock. This is a common practice to prevent unacceptable sexual behavior, reduce aggressiveness, and prevent accidental or indiscriminate breeding. The intact male (tomcat) is likely to roam, fight with other males, and spray, and is of course, strongly

attracted to seek out and mate with intact females. Tomcat urine is particularly malodorous. Overall the intact male cat can make a most unpleasant household companion.
How does castration affect behavior?
The only behaviors affected by castration are those under the influence of male hormones (these are called sexually dimorphic behaviors). A cat&#8217;s temperament, training, and personality are the result of genetics and upbringing, and are generally unaffected by the presence or absence of male hormones. Castration is unlikely to calm an overactive cat or decrease aggression toward people. Since the male brain is masculinized by the time the kitten is born, castration will reduce some, but not all of the sexually dimorphic male behaviors. If performed prior to sexual maturity castration will help to prevent the development of secondary sexual characteristics such as penile barbs, large jowls, and glands at the dorsal part of the cat&#8217;s tail.

"The only behaviors affected by castration are those under the influence of male hormones."
What is neutering?
The operation of neutering or castration of male cats is called an orchidectomy. The procedure involves general anesthesia, and an incision is made over each side of the scrotal sac so that each testicle can be excised or completely removed. External sutures are not generally required. In males both testicles descend prior to birth from inside the abdominal cavity through the inguinal canal into the scrotal sac. In some cats one or both testicles do not descend fully into the sac and may either remain in the abdomen or may be retained anywhere along the inguinal canal path to the scrotal sac.

These cats are called cryptorchid and a more extensive surgery will be required to locate the testicles and remove them. If these retained testicles are not removed, they will continue to produce hormones and the cat will display behaviors typical of intact male cats. Vasectomies are not performed in cats because this procedure only sterilizes the cat but does not stop production of male hormones. It is both sterilization and removal of the male hormones that provide the behavioral benefits of castration.
What are the benefits of neutering?
Population control

Millions of cats are destroyed across North America each year because there are far more cats born than homes available. A single male cat can father many litters so that neutering of intact males is essential for population control. Although sexual desire will be greatly reduced by castration, some experienced males may continue to show sexual interest in females.

"Vasectomies are not performed in cats because this procedure only sterilizes the cat but does not stop production of male hormones."

Spraying

The most common behavior problem in cats of all ages is indoor elimination at locations other than the litter box. A large number of these cases are cats that spray or mark walls and other vertical household objects. Adult male cats have an extremely strong urge to mark territory, both indoors and out. Neutering reduces or eliminates spraying in approximately 85% of male cats.

"Neutering reduces or eliminates spraying in approximately 85% of male cats."

Aggression

Cats, whether neutered or intact, can get into fights but most intercat aggression is seen between intact males. This is a direct result of competition between male cats, and because intact male cats roam and protect a much larger territory. If these fights lead to punctures or wounds that penetrate the skin, abscesses are a common sequel. Neutering reduces fighting and abscess development in male cats.

Roaming and sexual attraction

Intact males have much larger territories and wander over greater distances than females and neutered males. The urge to roam may be particularly strong during mating season. Castration reduces roaming in approximately 90% of cases. Although neutering greatly reduces sexual interest, some experienced males may continue to be attracted to, and mate with females.

Physical changes

Male urine odor is particularly strong and pungent. Castration leads to a change to a more normal urine odor. Many owners claim that their intact males become much cleaner, less odorous, and better self-groomers after neutering. Abscess formation as a result of fighting is far less frequent and some of the secondary sexual characteristics such as the overproductive tail glands in the condition known as "stud tail" can be dramatically improved.

Does neutering lead to any adverse effects on health or behavior?
"Male urine odor is particularly strong and pungent."

There are many misconceptions about the effects of neutering on health and behavior. Neutered males are no more likely to become fat or lazy provided they receive a proper diet and adequate exercise. With less roaming, fighting and mating activity, calorie intake may have to be reduced and alternative forms of play and activity provided. Behaviors that have developed independent of hormonal influences such as hunting are not affected. Regardless of age at which it is performed, neutering does not have any effect on physical development (overall height and weight, urethral size). Although neutering before puberty appears to have similar effects to neutering post-puberty, every attempt should be made to neuter before puberty before the cat develops problems, experiences, and habits associated with sexual maturity.

This client information sheet is based on material written by: Debra Horwitz, DVM, DACVB & Gary Landsberg, DVM, DACVB, DECAWBM

The hormone thing is really a non-issue.
 

Merad

Platinum Member
May 31, 2010
2,586
19
81
You people who are comparing declawing to other surgical procedures that we have done on pets need some perspective. As a guy who has both had my appendix out, and lost a finger on my right hand, I can tell you that the latter is significantly more impactful than the former. In other words, removing internal organs to improve health or prevent other problems is one thing, while chopping off bits of the outside parts is quite another.

This. Declawing actually changes the way that a cat's paw meets the ground. It can cause pain in their paws or even back pain. Some cats also start biting after declawing since they've been "disarmed."

It's sometimes annoying keeping my cats claws trimmed but I'd rather put up with that than declaw her.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
This. Declawing actually changes the way that a cat's paw meets the ground. It can cause pain in their paws or even back pain. Some cats also start biting after declawing since they've been "disarmed."

It's sometimes annoying keeping my cats claws trimmed but I'd rather put up with that than declaw her.

Cat's don't really use their claws as offense. They are primary used to hold live prey and scale trees/etc.

The cat's primary weapon is it's bite.
 

jhansman

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2004
2,768
29
91
My answer-no. Nor is it OK to bob a dog's tail/ears, clip a bird's wings, etc. Either take the animal as is and learn to live with it, or leave it be. Just my $.02
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
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As stated above, male cats that are intact will spray to mark territory. If you don't neuter them early enough they will continue the habit of spraying usually.

I'm aware of that. I was talking about a dog. In the case of male cats I understand why they need to be neutered, and all in all I'd call it a fair trade since the alternative for them is the cold and damp.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
My answer-no. Nor is it OK to bob a dog's tail/ears, clip a bird's wings, etc. Either take the animal as is and learn to live with it, or leave it be. Just my $.02

What about animals that get put to sleep, for about every two you see; one will be put to sleep because they don't work out for a home.

Many adoption agencies have no declaw rules you agree with that limit cats getting homes.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
What about animals that get put to sleep, for about every two you see; one will be put to sleep because they don't work out for a home.

Many adoption agencies have no declaw rules you agree with that limit cats getting homes.

Alky makes a point.

If we're ready to de-man a male cat just to avoid piss, I don't see why we're hesitating to remove cat-claws (for indoor cats) that could make them a viable pets instead of trashcan fodder.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
Not all owners have the time to take all of the steps for the training. And, is the training instant, 100% overnight success? I.e., the owner brings home a cat and it never once scratches the couch? That might be more of a risk than some people are willing to take with expensive furniture.
Not all owners "have the time"? If you don't have the time to learn how to take care of a pet then you shouldn't own the pet, period.

Again, I've had plenty of cats, and just had an obnoxiously friendly kitten adopt us a few nights ago. And, when you try to think how friendly a kitten has to be to be obnoxiously friendly, you're not even close. The obnoxiously friendly kitten ran up my leg and ran up my shirt so it could cuddle up against my throat - while I was walking. (I think that in a former life, it was a parrot. Its preferred location if someone's awake in the house is on someone's shoulder. Or rubbing its head and side against your mouth while you're sitting down to eat.) Shirt is somewhat ruined from the claws when it ran up the shirt. I wouldn't consider for a second getting him declawed.
Yes, let's declaw the kitten because you're too lazy to train it. Perfectly logical. /sarcasm

But, I'd like you to address this neutering thing. Any female outdoor cat who is in heat is going to find a mate, period. I can't quite figure out the point of neutering a cat, unless you have a male and a female indoor cat and never let them out the door. You let a female out the door when she's in heat, she's getting pregnant. So, why would you mutilate a male cat? Is it to show no favoritism for one sex of cat over the other?
You can't train cats not to breed, but you can train them not to scratch. Don't try to over-complicate it.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
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www.markbetz.net
You can't train cats not to breed, but you can train them not to scratch. Don't try to over-complicate it.

Have any advice on how? I'm willing to try with the new one we just got. Never had any success with the old one, despite trying a bunch of different things my wife found online.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Not all cats can be totally trained to not scratch anything, but their posts...even declawed cats will like to paw at things and just their pads can pull delicate materials.

To train a cat though requires time. Most just throw a cat in a room and expect it to be a nice pet one day and when they do interact with the cat it's usually rough and aggressive which leads the cat to fear and hiding.

My cats for the most part follow me around and like human interaction. A couple are scaredy cats and hide unless it's meal time. Almost all of them are very friendly when being fed.

The new cats destroyed my cork board wall by one of the desks we have. For the most part they stick to scratching the cat towers and posts we have.
 
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