Is it regular practice for a car shop to refuse CEL diagnostics you got elsewhere?

[Zivic]

If you bring your Honda into a Honda dealership with a difficult problem, its likely that the Honda technician has seen this problem before.

This I agree with... that said if it is common enough, most reputable shops will also have seen the problem before as well, especially on a common car like a honda

He can thus diagnose the problem faster, has the factory special tools to do the job correct and faster, and will be using OEM parts to do the repair.

Definitely a possibility, but again, a reputable independent shop should have no issues with the diagnostic or repair on common cars. oem parts don't mean much IMHO, sometimes they are better, sometimes they aren't... and a reputable independent shop will know the times to use an aftermarket part

On the other hand, an independent garage probably has never seen the problem, will take much longer to diagnose, will have to fabricate or makeshift tools to do the job, and will likely use aftermarket or generic parts to repair the vehicle.

This is a bad assumption. I have had numerous experiences with dealers misdiagnosing a problem and having my vehicle their for 5-10 days longer than needed (warranty work)... mean while, my local mechanic knew exactly what was wrong in a matter of minutes. making suggestions to the dealer is like talking to the wall.

Fabricating tools? seriously? maybe 20 yrs ago, but not this day-in-age. Any reputable shop will have the tools to do 99.9999% of repairs



Likewise, should there be a recall or secret recall on this repair, the dealership will not charge the customer. The independent garage will charge the customer for a recall.

I am sorry, this is flat out a lie... a reputable shop will inform the customer of the same recall and advise them to take it to dealer for the free repair. In some cases the shop is able to do the recall work free for the customer and take care of it at the same time as other work. If they repair a known recall and charge the person, they are not a reputable shop

Dealerships can and usually do save customers money over the independent shops. One other big reason is warranty. If a Honda dealership repairs your car, it can be warranted at any Honda dealership. What happens is your independent shop goes out of business? Happens a lot these days. You warranty just went down the toilet too.

first off -> If the repair is done right, I don't care about a warranty. It isn't needed.

for some, people it is true, they need that dealership warranty, but in my experience, the dealership will do anything and everything to avoid a warranty claim. Where as my local mechanic NEVER gives me an issue about anything I may need to bring back him - oddly enough, I have only had to go back to dealerships for follow-up work, not to my local mechanic.

For some, the dealership is the way to go. For me, not a chance. I have even stopped bringing my wife's van in for free oil changes to the dealership because of the hassle and poor quality of service I received. Heck, I had a squeak in the door and asked them if they could take a quick look at it while I was in for service (car is within warranty period). Manager makes a big stink that I need to agree to a $100 inspection fee if I want the door looked at -> said forget that, took the car home, found a small rock in the window channel, took the air hose and blew it out problem fixed in 2 minutes.


another example of poor dealership experience

leased pick-up had electric door lock issues. took the truck in, showed them the problem. called 2 days later said problem fixed. went to pick it up and asked what the problem was.... adviser says we couldn't replicate the problem. took him out, and again showed in the problem.... says ok, leave it here a few more days, we'll fix it. over the period, truck has the tail lights stolen from the dealer lot -> dealer has the balls to call and say our insurance needs to cover the claim..


have a sunroof on a car that intermittently doesn't work. had the car in 3 times to the dealership for repairs. each time, the say they fix the problem. long story short, I sold the car this past year after owning it for 12 yrs with non working sun roof.

another car of mine had a torn CV boot after 12k miles. brought in for warranty repair. dealership says, it is a wear item and not covered under warranty. I argue a bit and finally leave. do the repair myself to find the retaining clamp had been put on incorrectly and a sharp edge had caused the boot to fail prematurely. had the dealership even taken a look at it, they could have seen this and known it wasn't due to wear.

brand new minivan has a trans fail within 400 miles. bring it to the dealer for them to refuse warranty on the trans. says we need to split the repair cost 50/50.

.... I can go on and on. from just flat out poor service, to mis diagnosing, to bad repairs. the dealership is the last place I will be taking my cars

 

[Strk]

That's kind of bull for a CEL. It is common for an airbag light though.

 

[Raizinman]

first off -> If the repair is done right, I don't care about a warranty.

.... I can go on and on. from just flat out poor service, to mis diagnosing, to bad repairs. the dealership is the last place I will be taking my cars

Wow, thats pretty amazing. I have never met anyone with that much bad dealership Karma. Yes, I would agree that you should not return to ANY dealership. In working in dealerships, we occasionally had a customer like you. We happily referred them to the independent shop up the street. Anyone else that had this many problems at a dealership, I would agree with you to also move on to an independent shop. Fact is, when someone has this many problems at a dealership, the problem is rarely the dealership.

 

[Zivic]

Fact is, when someone has this many problems at a dealership, the problem is rarely the dealership.

I can read between the lines - I am not the problem. The fact as I see it is, no matter what dealership it is, it is all about the money. They want you to believe it is about the customer, but it never is. I am even fine with that, but at least be honest with me.

If I can't do the work myself, I make a simple phone call, drive my car down the street from me, and my guy fixes it up. No BS, no 100 buck diagnostic fee, no fill out this form, no dealing with a cocky service manager (nissan dealerships were the worst in that regard)

I have so many BS stories about being jacked around at dealerships ->

- dropped my Z off for a TSB... come back to pick it up with a foot long scratch on the hatch

- wife takes our van in to get a rotation and oil change. adviser comes out and goes through the work that was done -> pointing out the tire rotation specifically. She gets back and I point out the brake dust on the front wheels showing her that they didn't rotate the tires, but they told her they did and charged her for it

I did have one good dealership experience though ---- well sort of

Same car as the torn cv boot. had a knocking noise while driving. took it to a different dealership this time to have it looked at. They tell it was fixed... not sure what they did, but regardless, they call me and tell me to pick it up. I pick it up. No noise, car seems fine. I make it about 10 more miles and the trans completely explodes (flex plate let go) .

Car is towed back to the dealership. They had some rep come out and look at it and ended up replacing the trans, crank pulley, starter, wiring harness, and lower cast oil pan -> about 8 grand worth of work.

Now should I be upset that they didn't fix the problem right when I initially brought them the car? Maybe only have a 500-1000 buck repair and me without a car for only a day or two. It may have taken a month, but I got my car back with nothing more than having to drive my beater for a few weeks, and 4 trips to the dealership.

 

[Meghan54]

Damn son, you sure need to learn something about cars first, Zivic. Repairing a CV joint has no relation to your flex plate letting go.

Remember, cause and effect, which in this case the CV joint repair was NOT the cause of the flex plate "exploding".

 

[Zivic]

Damn son, you sure need to learn something about cars first, Zivic. Repairing a CV joint has no relation to your flex plate letting go.

Remember, cause and effect, which in this case the CV joint repair was NOT the cause of the flex plate "exploding".

maybe you need to take a class in reading comprehension


the CV issue was at 12k miles on this car... it was dealt with 22k miles before the issue with the trans. I was merely pointing out I didn't go back to the same dealership that refused to repair the CV boot a year and a half earlier

Thinking if I could do a full twin turbo conversion on a 350z in a town house garage, I know that a CV boot has no relation to the tans flex plate

 

[SparkyJJO]

So, in the same vein, I'm sure you don't expect to pay a hospital for any sort of diagnostic scan, either, right? Those CAT, MRIs, ultrasound scans, etc., are nothing more than another type of diagnostic scan and high priced.

Not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Meghan54]

Not even remotely the same thing.

Sure it is....both are simply diagnostic tools, scans. Neitehr fixes anything and in both cases, a "repair" can be attempted without doing the particular scan. One is just simply scanning a human body, one is scanning a car for its symptoms.

Why are they so different?

 

[mvbighead]

I have to agree with Zivic on this one.

Fact is, when someone has this many problems at a dealership, the problem is rarely the dealership.

The only truth to this remark is the fact that the problem is the customer who knows when the dealership is full of it. Heck, I am not even half the mechanic that some of these people are. But to take my car into a dealership, and have them suggest that the problem is the exact thing that was already replaced 3 months prior, and not go any further, all the while charging me nearly $400 for a repair I did myself with a $30 part and 15 minutes of time... let's just say that a dealership is the last place I'll take a vehicle.

My dad worked for several larger dealerships, as well as numerous small ones. He takes his car to the same local mechanic that I take mine. And it isn't because the local mechanic is more convenient. Suffice it to say, if someone who has worked for dealerships doesn't bring his own car to them for service, why the hell would I bring them mine?

 

[SparkyJJO]

Sure it is....both are simply diagnostic tools, scans. Neitehr fixes anything and in both cases, a "repair" can be attempted without doing the particular scan. One is just simply scanning a human body, one is scanning a car for its symptoms.

Why are they so different?

No, it is not. An OBDII scan at the dealership is plugging in a $150 tool for 30 seconds to read the codes.

A CAT scan or MRI is nowhere close to the same thing as an OBDII computer scan. An MRI takes lot more expensive equipment that also takes a lot more time and a heck of a lot more energy and maintenance.

If you can't understand the difference, well, I can't help you there.

 

[alkemyst]

Sure it is....both are simply diagnostic tools, scans. Neitehr fixes anything and in both cases, a "repair" can be attempted without doing the particular scan. One is just simply scanning a human body, one is scanning a car for its symptoms.

Why are they so different?

you serious?

Just the cost factor of the MRI, the premium space and maintenance it requires and the salaries (more than likely one is in the 1%er realm) of those operating, diagnosing and maintaining it make is worlds different than even a $1000-2000 machine at a dealership being operated and reviewed by a single mid 5 figure a year worker type.

Not to mention an OBDII system can be read in all of 30 seconds start to finish whereas an MRI can take hours start to finish.

 

[sontakke]

I think the joke about "we are only haggling on the price my dear" comes to my mind! Everybody knows that joke, right??

 

[steppinthrax]

To sum this entire thread up.

This is why I fix my own car

 

[slag]

Because VW/Audi dealerships don't use a $50.00 scan tool, multiply that by 100 and you might be in the ballpark.

I own a consumer version similar to what VW uses, and that set me back nearly $300. Trust me, it does A LOT more than just spit out codes.

Right, I have a VW and know what you are talking about, however, it still shouldn't cost $100.00 to scan a car and print out the codes. It takes literally 5 minutes to go in, hook it up, type in the vin if it doesn't auto populate, and let the scanner do its job.

Guess thats one of the reasons most of us here in the garage do our own work.

 

[sontakke]

Last time I was at a dealer with CEL on, I already had the scanner connected and in plain view. I told the service adviser the code and told him about the TSB. I asked him to tell me point blank if the TSB is applicable to my vehicle with the mileage/years. If no, I did not want him to hook up his scanner to tell me the code and then denying the TSB coverage. He was honest enough to tell me that he would not be able to cover the repair, so I did not pay for useless code read.

By the way, given that a decent scanner can be had under $100, it is pretty stupid for somebody to pay to get the code read. You can get freeze frame, live data, mode $6 results, O2 data and more from that scanner. Take the data and post it on a helpful forum and you might get very good diagnostic help.

Some of you are not aware of availability of cheap and good enough readers these days. Not everybody needs to own a Snap-On Verus

- Vikas

 

[Via]

Update: "small" problem not so small - they wanted to replace both CCs to the tune of around $3000 (the total also included some smaller stuff).

The place is obviously not on the level; my sister said she had one CC replaced a year ago. I recommended she have the small stuff done and get the hell away from there for a second opinion on the CCs.