Is it regular practice for a car shop to refuse CEL diagnostics you got elsewhere?

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
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This seems to be a decent place for car advice, so I'm wondering if that's normal. My sister took her car to Autozone and got a free CEL readout that determined two minor issues. So she goes to a dealer/shop and they say they won't touch the car without their own $100 "diagnostic".

I don't know what to tell her. Is this unavoidable, or should she go somewhere else?
 

satyajitmenon

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2008
1,911
9
81
Don't know if it's regular practice or not. But if the dealership has to stand by / guarantee the repair work they do, they'll want to arrive at the root cause themselves. And not just trust what someone tells them.

Will they at least refund/deduct the diagnostic charges if she does the repairs through them?
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
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If they do refund it that would make sense. I'll give her a call.

Thanks.
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
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I think one was an O2 sensor; I can't remember what the other one was. I guess the Autozone guy said it wasn't a big thing.

It's a 2002 Audi A6. I have no idea what the exact codes were; she hasn't called me back.

She wanted to take it in today before she travels. I may not be able to get ahold of her anyway.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
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0
Tell her to go to another local independent. Angies list has many good ones.
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,695
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She just left me a message that she ended up leaving the car there. I'm curious whether they'll refund the diagnostic fee or not.

She also said that because she was leaving the car until after christmas a tech did a 10 minute inspection and made her confirm every single blemish inside and out in writing.

I don't recall ever having to do that, and I've left plenty of cars at shops for a few days or a week. Is this also commonplace now? Or does this place have a major corncob up their collective butts?
 

Raizinman

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2007
2,353
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What happens if the dealer follows the advice of AutoZone, replaces a part, and this doesn't fix the car? Who are you going to be mad at? What if the guy at AutoZone only read the first code, or mis-read the code, or perhaps his generic scanner didn't read a secondary proprietary or hidden code. Having spent close to 20 years in dealerships I've seen this happen many times. One of the first policies for our service technicians is to VERIFY THE PROBLEM. That doesn’t mean take anyones word for it. They must verify the problem themselves. Otherwise, it puts us in a bad position of guessing or just parts changing. AutoZone is great for assisting do-it-yourselfer by reading the CEL codes and then trying to sell them the parts to fix it. Keep in mind, that if the scanner did read an oxygen sensor, it doesn’t really mean the oxygen sensor is bad. It could be a wiring fault or something else. This is the danger or inexperienced people using automotive scanners. Their basic interpretation of the results are often mis-understood. No different than the guy at AutoZone who did the scan test. Use the Auto Zone scan test only as a guide, not as gospel.
 

CoachB

Senior member
Aug 24, 2005
204
0
71
The real question is Why does the dealer/shop charge for a CEL scan? Takes 5 minutes and uses a piece of equipment that cost $50.00. What's next, charging to unlock the door to the garage?
 

Raizinman

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2007
2,353
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The real question is Why does the dealer/shop charge for a CEL scan? Takes 5 minutes and uses a piece of equipment that cost $50.00. What's next, charging to unlock the door to the garage?

I have to defend the dealerships, not because I spent so many years there, but because I believe they are right. If you want a FREE scan then go to your local auto parts store like AutoZone and get a free scan. If you want a technician to scan your vehicle with a proprietary scanner for your specific vehicle, and get an estimate for repair, go to the dealer. Many times technicians know of ECM updates or TSB’s (Technical Service Bulletins) from the manufacturer that can fix your problem. You basically get what you pay for. Free gets you a code, that may or may not be your problem. Pay $75 and get a technician to diagnosis your vehicle with an estimate of repair. Most dealerships will apply the cost of the diagnostic to the repair. It is NOT called a refund. I am very pro dealerships in things like this. Having seen too many independent shops misdiagnose by using a cheap scanner or repairing something that the dealerships would have repaired for free because it was a recall.
 

basslover1

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2004
1,921
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The real question is Why does the dealer/shop charge for a CEL scan? Takes 5 minutes and uses a piece of equipment that cost $50.00. What's next, charging to unlock the door to the garage?

Because VW/Audi dealerships don't use a $50.00 scan tool, multiply that by 100 and you might be in the ballpark.

I own a consumer version similar to what VW uses, and that set me back nearly $300. Trust me, it does A LOT more than just spit out codes.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
This is the same as mortgage companies dealing with "I can give you my credit report".

It's like a $XX thing. In the end it determines you skip on this job.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
I have to defend the dealerships, not because I spent so many years there, but because I believe they are right. If you want a FREE scan then go to your local auto parts store like AutoZone and get a free scan. If you want a technician to scan your vehicle with a proprietary scanner for your specific vehicle, and get an estimate for repair, go to the dealer. Many times technicians know of ECM updates or TSB’s (Technical Service Bulletins) from the manufacturer that can fix your problem. You basically get what you pay for. Free gets you a code, that may or may not be your problem. Pay $75 and get a technician to diagnosis your vehicle with an estimate of repair. Most dealerships will apply the cost of the diagnostic to the repair. It is NOT called a refund. I am very pro dealerships in things like this. Having seen too many independent shops misdiagnose by using a cheap scanner or repairing something that the dealerships would have repaired for free because it was a recall.
This is 100% true.

You wouldn't have the pharmacy assistant take your temperature and vital signs, then go to the doctor and expect him to remove your appendix without first verifying that was the problem, would you? Because that's about what having Autozone read the codes amounts to.
An O2 reading lean may be a bad O2 sensor.....or it might mean your engine is actually running lean.

As far as the "refunding of the diagnostic".....there is no such thing. You expect them to diagnose the car, then not charge you for it, and just charge you for installing whatever part it is? Right.
I've seen it termed different ways...."the diag charge goes towards the cost of the repair"...either way, you do NOT get it back. It simply is included in the charge of the repair they quote you, as it should be.

Now, as to the shop going over the car's dents and dings before she left it: That's because they've been burned by a-holes who have dropped their cars off that they knew had damage, then accused the dealer of causing it afterwards. So they now make the customer acknowledge whatever's wrong with the vehicle to prevent this. If customers weren't generally dishonest and less trustworthy than mechanics AND salesmen, this wouldn't be necessary...but the fact is, customers suck. They lie, and they are constantly trying to get something for less or even nothing. Work for a dealership and you'll see it over and over and over.

Finally, I'll say this: Yes, sometimes whatever's throwing the code is the issue, and needs to be replaced. But sometimes, it's not. In fact, at least 50% of the time, it's not. Or there's another issue that's being masked by the first code that pops up.

So while you can certainly find cases of where a dealership mechanic misdiagnosed a car and it was later fixed by an independent, you will find FAR more cases where it was the other way around. And even more cases of where someone has already spent a load on sensors and tune up parts based on parts monkey's "diagnostics", then took it to the dealer and had the problem properly diagnosed.
Dealerships aren't infallible, but the numbers are on their side, pretty overwhelmingly.
 

T2urtle

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2004
3,432
3
81
sounds about normal.

Say your friend with a broken computer came to me cause i do free checks, i tell him ram is bad. He goes to you to tell you to replace the ram so his computer works. You replace ram and nothing happens. Now its just gets messy, the friend either ways a refund for the ram and you wasted your time but its not your fault. I didn't get paid so its not my fault.

People go to autozone for codes in attempts to DIY. Or find someone to do it cheaper. an o2 sensor is cheap and easy to replace with handtools. In a sense its just removing a bolt and unplugging a connector. THe other faults is the problem.

Ask her if its an o2 bank 1 sensor 2 type of fault and a System running lean or rich fault. On VW products they seem to be hand and hand. But the solutions can sometimes be diffrent, like a vaccum leak could cause all of this.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
Normal. I took my car in once and handed the TSB number as a suggestion. I even made it clear that I didn't want them to skip their diagnostic practices. Just offered it as a formality.
They emphatically wouldn't look at the TSB number.
Fortunately it was fixed with no issues.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
If you want a FREE scan then go to your local auto parts store like AutoZone and get a free scan. If you want a technician to scan your vehicle with a proprietary scanner for your specific vehicle, and get an estimate for repair, go to a reputable independent shop.

FTFY.

Forget the dealers and their $100 "diagnostic fee" and other crap. Many independent shops can tell you what is wrong for free to begin with (unless they have to tear into something to find out the exact problem, I've had that before).

I don't blame them for not wanting to trust what the guy at Autozone said, but a $100 fee is ridiculous. They aren't dubbed "stealerships" for nothing. I know there are some good one out there, but it sure seems that many of them are more of a ripoff than anything, taking advantage of clueless people.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
FTFY.

Forget the dealers and their $100 "diagnostic fee" and other crap. Many independent shops can tell you what is wrong for free to begin with (unless they have to tear into something to find out the exact problem, I've had that before).

I don't blame them for not wanting to trust what the guy at Autozone said, but a $100 fee is ridiculous. They aren't dubbed "stealerships" for nothing. I know there are some good one out there, but it sure seems that many of them are more of a ripoff than anything, taking advantage of clueless people.



So, in the same vein, I'm sure you don't expect to pay a hospital for any sort of diagnostic scan, either, right? Those CAT, MRIs, ultrasound scans, etc., are nothing more than another type of diagnostic scan and high priced.
 

bruceb

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
8,874
111
106
Sorry to say, but most places will want to look at the diagnostic codes themselves before doing any work. And with complex scanners, like a GM Tech II, they can not only pull the code, but any history codes and also view real time engine data. The real time data is what really points the tech in the right direction to fix the issue. Most shops credit the "diagnostic fee" if the repair work is authorized and done.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I have to defend the dealerships, not because I spent so many years there, but because I believe they are right. If you want a FREE scan then go to your local auto parts store like AutoZone and get a free scan. If you want a technician to scan your vehicle with a proprietary scanner for your specific vehicle, and get an estimate for repair, go to the dealer. Many times technicians know of ECM updates or TSB’s (Technical Service Bulletins) from the manufacturer that can fix your problem. You basically get what you pay for. Free gets you a code, that may or may not be your problem. Pay $75 and get a technician to diagnosis your vehicle with an estimate of repair. Most dealerships will apply the cost of the diagnostic to the repair. It is NOT called a refund. I am very pro dealerships in things like this. Having seen too many independent shops misdiagnose by using a cheap scanner or repairing something that the dealerships would have repaired for free because it was a recall.


I agree that the dealership, or any shop that is going to do the work, needs to do their own diagnostic. I don't agree that somehow the dealerships scan of a code is VASTLY superior. those 50 bucks scan tools can easily tell you what is wrong with the car. A 300 code is a 300 code for example. the higher end scanners can help you resolve the problem, but really a code is a code is a code. Sure there are times when you need the better scan tools to diagnose, but that isn't always the case.

I can do 90% of my own work and I have a local mechanic I trust. Dealerships IMHO are not the place I recommend people take their cars because of things like over priced diagnostic. I have had too many bad experiences with dealership service (Ford, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, even with an oil change on a mercedes).
 
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Raizinman

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2007
2,353
74
91
meettomy.site
If you bring your Honda into a Honda dealership with a difficult problem, its likely that the Honda technician has seen this problem before. He can thus diagnose the problem faster, has the factory special tools to do the job correct and faster, and will be using OEM parts to do the repair. On the other hand, an independent garage probably has never seen the problem, will take much longer to diagnose, will have to fabricate or makeshift tools to do the job, and will likely use aftermarket or generic parts to repair the vehicle. Likewise, should there be a recall or secret recall on this repair, the dealership will not charge the customer. The independent garage will charge the customer for a recall. Dealerships can and usually do save customers money over the independent shops. One other big reason is warranty. If a Honda dealership repairs your car, it can be warranted at any Honda dealership. What happens is your independent shop goes out of business? Happens a lot these days. You warranty just went down the toilet too.
 
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