Is IT work a dead-end?

[madoka]

Reading about the 49 IT workers who just got their jobs outsourced to India got me to wonder if IT jobs are a dead-end, because they are particularly vulnerable to being sent to whatever country has the lowest wages.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-fran...off-workers-jobs-head-015039330--finance.html

The University of California, San Francisco on Tuesday laid off 49 information technology (IT) employees and outsourced their work to a company based in India, ending a year-long process that has brought the public university under fire.

The university announced the plan last July as a way to save $30 million over five years. The University of California system, which includes health care and research-focused UCSF, has been struggling to raise revenue and cut expenses.

Globalization and outsourcing have become hot-button political issues in the United States, as more employers cut costs by farming out work to low-cost workers in far-flung parts of the world. President Donald Trump campaigned on promises to restore lost U.S. jobs and to penalize companies that move factories overseas.

This was the University of California's first outsourcing, said a spokeswoman who added that the layoffs were necessary due to rising costs of technology. In addition to the 49 staff layoffs, another 48 positions that were vacant or filled by contractors were eliminated.

California Senator Dianne Feinstein last year said the university had a responsibility to keep jobs in the United States and pledged to seek reforms to stop domestic jobs being outsourced.

Kurt Ho, 58, a laid off systems administrator, carried a box of his personal items with an American flag draped over it, and said the university's decision will hurt service for a medical staff that relies on a smoothly running and secure computer network.

"It's a downgrading of services and a slap in the face for the customers," said Ho, who has worked in IT in the Bay Area for 25 years. He said he plans to look for a job but worries that outsourcing of IT services is a growing trend.

Last year UCSF entered into a $50 million contract over five years with India-based HCL Technologies Ltd to do the work.

If UCSF makes this work, then I imagine most other UCs will follow.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Outsourcing has been happening for years. Also, insourcing because outsourcing sucks.

Also, please realize that working in "IT" doesn't mean you're guaranteed a $150k/year job as a senior infrastructure architect. You're a mechanic - you're likely as not to be paid like one. $60k/year to be a router jockey and webpage admin for a school district is a fair wage for reasonable work, and it's a lot harder to outsource.

 

[ultimatebob]

Yeah... the only way to be "safe" in IT now is to have skills in whatever happens to be the "hot" technology trend at the time. Right now, the big ones seem to be server room to "cloud" migrations, configuration automation tools like Puppet and Chef, and "big data" tools like Hadoop.

Even those will be outsourced overseas in a few years, so you always need to be looking for the next big thing and learning it.

So, yeah... learn plumbing instead if you want a more secure position.

 

[purbeast0]

With outsourcing IT and software development, you get what you pay for. That's why there are so many shitty companies out there.

 

[Exterous]

Interesting. I wonder what jobs they are outsourcing. We don't have much contact with Universities on the West Coast but in our experience most Universities want more on prem support than off. I'd also question if this was really the best cost cutting measure. I've seen a lot of school budgets and they are all supremely fucked up. 50 professors "need" $3k of Apple computers and monitors to write their books on which gets approved for $150k. Meanwhile research storage is running out of space and IT need another expansion bay and drives for $50k but that gets denied. IT required to spend $20k on a room reservation system with fancy touch screen room placards but can't get money to replace the 8 year old HP blade enclosure running mission critical systems. Lots of pandering to the whims of Deans and Professors at the expense of core IT needs or exploding IT budgets

 

[ponyo]

People don't care unless it's their job being outsourced or replaced. Not many cared when US manufacturing jobs moved out of the country. Not many cared when illegals took most of the construction related jobs. Not many will care when telecommuting leads to outsourcing to India for most IT related work.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would not necessarily call it dead end, but if I was to do it all over again it's definitely not the sector I would have went to school for as it's not secure. Something physical like trades is much more secure. IT is basically janitorial services for computers as far as most companies are concerned, it's seen as a maintenance cost. Companies don't really care much about the quality or security of their infrastructure (just look at all the breaches and leaks etc) they just care about cost. I took computer science, there's no real programming jobs here so essentially my goal was IT. I graduated and got in IT, eventually moved to the NOC which is more telecom but I guess it could be considered a branch of IT. Computer science is still something good to have since it opens a lot of doors for pretty much most technology related jobs. My job required either electronics, or computer science. But pretty much anything where you sit at a desk all day can easily be outsourced or in some cases automated. I see a lot of stuff that could be automated and streamlined then I realize that the fact that it's not that way is why I even have a job. Outsourcing is not the only threat, but relocation is too, seems most companies are HQed down south, they could not care less about the offices in the north. They could easily just shut us down and relocate any work down south. The only thing they would have to keep is the techs that physically need to touch stuff but then they can still outsource that to a local contracting company, which they do a lot already. Lot of our linemen arn't even working for the company they're contractors.

IT was booming around the time I was in high school and maybe college. Everything was about technology, rolling out new machines, new servers, new network, everything. The internet had just become available in the 2000's or so and it was just a huge deal to setup everything being more technologically advanced. The good ol Pentium 3 era, it seems technology took a huge boom around that time. IT jobs were everywhere. Now that all that stuff is in place at every company and it's no longer a craze it's just something that's there and has to work, kinda like the lights. Put out an RFP for an outsourced IT services company and hire the lowest bidder.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It does depend a lot on what you mean by "IT". Computer science? That'll always be around, since we do depend on computers and someone's gotta build the circuits. Traditional 'IT shop' work? That's a trade, and depending on your competency level, what the expectations are of the company you're working for, and how automation moves things forward, this may become much more threatened.

The best thing you can do is be good at what you do, and don't fall behind. That doesn't mean learn every newfangled garbage that comes out of SanFran, but don't get left behind maintaining Win2008 boxes and RHEL5 appliances because 'they still work'.

 

[OutHouse]

depends on what level of IT you are talking about yes it can be a dead-end. But if you are with a company that does its own coding and on prem data centers it pays very well and very secure.

 

[Linux23]

If I could go back in time I'd definitely do something in health care.

 

[Staples]

It is beginning to seem that way. Plus, wages across the board are either stagnant or dropping as competition from H1Bs and outsourcing is a huge factor. I agree with the person above, plumbing is probably a better choice. You may face competition from immigrants but I don't think this or most construction will be automated any time soon.

 

[OverVolt]

When 3.5 Billion people are exposed to technology instead of just the 30% of Americans in 1990 with dial up, there is a much larger potential labor pool growing up with the stuff.

 

[vi edit]

When 3.5 Billion people are exposed to technology instead of just the 30% of Americans in 1990 with dial up, there is a much larger potential labor pool growing up with the stuff.

It's interesting. I don't normally consider myself "old" or one of the crotchety old guys, but there is definitely a large knowledge gap of "traditional" IT skills in younger generations. Those of us that grew up in the 70's and 80's and dealt with the growing pains of PC's, OS development and general infrastructure related stuff have a very different perspective than kids who grew up in the 90's and later. For them most of the bugs were ironed out and stuff just "worked". I work healthcare IT and we still have a ton archaic systems that have never been updated or are strung together with a series of duct tape and various other rigged abominations to keep them functioning. We tried hiring for a level 1 support position and interviewed some mid 20 something's with IT degrees. They couldn't tell me how to find the IP address of a machine or how to browse a network share via a UNC path. It was sort of eye opening. I'd be interested to know what is taught in some of these classes any more.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

It's interesting. I don't normally consider myself "old" or one of the crotchety old guys, but there is definitely a large knowledge gap of "traditional" IT skills in younger generations. Those of us that grew up in the 70's and 80's and dealt with the growing pains of PC's, OS development and general infrastructure related stuff have a very different perspective than kids who grew up in the 90's and later. For them most of the bugs were ironed out and stuff just "worked". I work healthcare IT and we still have a ton archaic systems that have never been updated or are strung together with a series of duct tape and various other rigged abominations to keep them functioning. We tried hiring for a level 1 support position and interviewed some mid 20 something's with IT degrees. They couldn't tell me how to find the IP address of a machine or how to browse a network share via a UNC path. It was sort of eye opening. I'd be interested to know what is taught in some of these classes any more.

Where the hell did they get their degrees, ITT Tech? Or some other pissant for-profit?

Some of us actually do learn that stuff.

 

[Rubycon]

If one gets stuck in an infinite loop, there can be no dead end.

 

[BudAshes]

Where the hell did they get their degrees, ITT Tech? Or some other pissant for-profit?

Some of us actually do learn that stuff.

We've hired guys with engineering degrees that had an IT focus and they can't even grasp simple networking concepts. I honestly have no idea what they were learning, I guess mostly physics and math, which really doesn't apply that much in IT for the average job.

That being said once you have experience in IT you are basically guaranteed employment. It is certainly not "dead". Sure lots of jobs are outsourced but that is just the basic stuff. If you have skill you will never be unemployed and your salary will certainly be better than average. It's a tough job though and there is not much glory to it.

 

[Ns1]

IT is so broad though, the guy going around doing desktop refreshes isn't going to get outsourced because you need a physical body to do that work.

Those 5 developers though - 3 jobs are going offshore, 1 is staying on as an on-shore consultant, and 1 stays an FT employee of the company.

 

[Red Squirrel]

IT is so broad though, the guy going around doing desktop refreshes isn't going to get outsourced because you need a physical body to do that work.

Those 5 developers though - 3 jobs are going offshore, 1 is staying on as an on-shore consultant, and 1 stays an FT employee of the company.

Yep pretty much. The more physical your job is the safer you are. Security clearances help a lot too, as even physical jobs can be outsourced, but in some cases the company may rather have someone in house because they don't want all sorts of contractors walking in and out of their buildings. And at least when it comes to physical outsourcing, it's still to a local company so you can try to apply for a job there as they may possibly need to hire people.

 

[zinfamous]

So does this mean that "IT Guy" jokes among coworkers will be a reference that no one understands 10 years from now?

 

[Rubycon]

So does this mean that "IT Guy" jokes among coworkers will be a reference that no one understands 10 years from now?

They could become IT Girls.

 

[zinfamous]

I would not necessarily call it dead end, but if I was to do it all over again it's definitely not the sector I would have went to school for as it's not secure. Something physical like trades is much more secure. IT is basically janitorial services for computers as far as most companies are concerned, it's seen as a maintenance cost. Companies don't really care much about the quality or security of their infrastructure (just look at all the breaches and leaks etc) they just care about cost.

Man, this is actually concerning. When you send IT support over to India, how secure is your system and what kind of control do you have to give over to offices and workers that you really have no direct command over? I suppose US companies and institutes have some type of safeguard in place that prevents a disgruntled Indian intern from crashing a central server or whatever, but, I mean...er is that the kind of thing you actually want to implement against your supposed IT support?

hmm...

 

[IEC]

Outsourcing may butter a bean counter's bread in the short run, but in the long run it can lead to higher costs when you hire consultants to fix all the stuff your outsourcing broke.

Same thing with being a cheapskate and treating IT as expendable. If you don't retain good employees and you are in BFE, good luck finding qualified replacements who want to move to your location for a pay cut.

You'll end up hiring people like me at an order of magnitude more cost than an FTE.

 

[Kaido]

I would not necessarily call it dead end, but if I was to do it all over again it's definitely not the sector I would have went to school for as it's not secure. Something physical like trades is much more secure. IT is basically janitorial services for computers as far as most companies are concerned, it's seen as a maintenance cost. Companies don't really care much about the quality or security of their infrastructure (just look at all the breaches and leaks etc) they just care about cost. I took computer science, there's no real programming jobs here so essentially my goal was IT. I graduated and got in IT, eventually moved to the NOC which is more telecom but I guess it could be considered a branch of IT. Computer science is still something good to have since it opens a lot of doors for pretty much most technology related jobs. My job required either electronics, or computer science. But pretty much anything where you sit at a desk all day can easily be outsourced or in some cases automated. I see a lot of stuff that could be automated and streamlined then I realize that the fact that it's not that way is why I even have a job. Outsourcing is not the only threat, but relocation is too, seems most companies are HQed down south, they could not care less about the offices in the north. They could easily just shut us down and relocate any work down south. The only thing they would have to keep is the techs that physically need to touch stuff but then they can still outsource that to a local contracting company, which they do a lot already. Lot of our linemen arn't even working for the company they're contractors.

IT was booming around the time I was in high school and maybe college. Everything was about technology, rolling out new machines, new servers, new network, everything. The internet had just become available in the 2000's or so and it was just a huge deal to setup everything being more technologically advanced. The good ol Pentium 3 era, it seems technology took a huge boom around that time. IT jobs were everywhere. Now that all that stuff is in place at every company and it's no longer a craze it's just something that's there and has to work, kinda like the lights. Put out an RFP for an outsourced IT services company and hire the lowest bidder.

Yeah, I got into IT back in the early 2000's after high school & computer jobs were EVERYWHERE! I went into school for IT administration, partly because everyone was making $100k/yr doing it. By the time I finished school, things had vastly changed & it was hard to even get a job at Geek Squad for $13/hr. As of today, in my area, we don't even have any IT shops locally. Have to buy everything online if you want parts. It's crazy how much it has changed. And I mean, that's the name of the IT game...easier, cheaper, etc. One or two guys can run a big company's IT infrastructure these days thanks to enhanced tools that work reliably with minimal training required...virtual servers, thin clients, great hardware & software systems like Square9, Scrutinizer, Shoretel, Aerohive...powerful, set & forget tools that can be easily managed by minimal staff.

I bounced around from computer fixit jobs to going into web design full-time to doing system migrations & now focusing on small biz hardware projects. I love my current job, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...VDI is just starting to get scary good, Kaby Lake has an upcoming card system that makes NUC's look like elephants, application virtualization is getting pretty awesome (especially to run on tablets & stuff)...things like that will really help minimize even helpdesk jobs. Which is good for end-users but not so great for those of us who do IT for a living. But there will always be something new out there if you're willing to follow the money. And of course, there are more or less permanent jobs like DB administration, coding, etc. Not everything can be successfully outsourced!

 

[IEC]

Yeah, I got into IT back in the early 2000's after high school & computer jobs were EVERYWHERE! I went into school for IT administration, partly because everyone was making $100k/yr doing it. By the time I finished school, things had vastly changed & it was hard to even get a job at Geek Squad for $13/hr. As of today, in my area, we don't even have any IT shops locally. Have to buy everything online if you want parts. It's crazy how much it has changed. And I mean, that's the name of the IT game...easier, cheaper, etc. One or two guys can run a big company's IT infrastructure these days thanks to enhanced tools that work reliably with minimal training required...virtual servers, thin clients, great hardware & software systems like Square9, Scrutinizer, Shoretel, Aerohive...powerful, set & forget tools that can be easily managed by minimal staff.

I bounced around from computer fixit jobs to going into web design full-time to doing system migrations & now focusing on small biz hardware projects. I love my current job, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...VDI is just starting to get scary good, Kaby Lake has an upcoming card system that makes NUC's look like elephants, application virtualization is getting pretty awesome (especially to run on tablets & stuff)...things like that will really help minimize even helpdesk jobs. Which is good for end-users but not so great for those of us who do IT for a living. But there will always be something new out there if you're willing to follow the money. And of course, there are more or less permanent jobs like DB administration, coding, etc. Not everything can be successfully outsourced!

Yeah the entry-level jobs like Desktop / Level 1 Support have definitely suffered due to virtualization. Virtualization can save tons of $$$$$$$ though.

On the other hand, If you truly know what you are doing and literally only a few thousand people in the world have your knowledge, experience, and skillset... you can write your own check.

 

[pauldun170]

arstechnica did a write up on the story

Ho, who earns about $100,000, told the LA Times that he spent two days training his replacement in a process that UCSF called "knowledge transfer."

"He told me he would go back to India and train his team and would be sending me e-mails with questions," Ho said.

Audrey Hatten-Milholin, who earned $127,000 at her job, says other replacements were around for two weeks. "What was shocking is that the system is so complex there’s no way you can learn it in two weeks," she said.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...t-workers-after-they-train-h-1b-replacements/