Is Microsoft playing a dangeous game of chicken with the internet? (XP)

[ViRGE]

I'm actually wondering what would happen if you try and install XP on new cards with 4GB VRAM. Anyone tried...?

Drivers aside, it works just fine. VRAM access is via a 256MB window, so it doesn't take up the entire address space on its own.

 

[coolpurplefan]

I read some comments on Win8. And it looks like going from XP to Win7 takes some time to learn/adapt. And Win8 takes even more time.

Maybe the solution for Win8 is just making it more user-friendly. I haven't seen it but I don't really want a Metrosexual menu on my screen.

I'm poor but even I decided in April I will likely do something to get a more modern OS. It kind of freaks me out but at the same time reading some messages here convinced me XP appears stone-aged. It's such a chore installing Windows, installing drivers, installing programs, configuring them... I may end up buying another hard drive out of fear if it doesn't work out well, at least I could keep a backup just for peace of mind.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's such a chore installing Windows, installing drivers, installing programs, configuring them... I may end up buying another hard drive out of fear if it doesn't work out well, at least I could keep a backup just for peace of mind.

That's probably a good idea. If you are getting Win7 or above, consider getting a 120-240GB SSD, if you can afford it. It will speed u your computing experience tremendously.

(I started with 30GB SSDs, but those are barely big enough for Win7 64-bit. Also, the larger drives are faster.)

 

[jolancer]

I read some comments on Win8. And it looks like going from XP to Win7 takes some time to learn/adapt. And Win8 takes even more time.

Maybe the solution for Win8 is just making it more user-friendly. I haven't seen it but I don't really want a Metrosexual menu on my screen.

I'm poor but even I decided in April I will likely do something to get a more modern OS. It kind of freaks me out but at the same time reading some messages here convinced me XP appears stone-aged. It's such a chore installing Windows, installing drivers, installing programs, configuring them... I may end up buying another hard drive out of fear if it doesn't work out well, at least I could keep a backup just for peace of mind.

first just fyi, doesn't require another hdd... but creating and having a backup of your data is a good idea, OLD or NEW OS doesnt matter.

theres a lot of paranoia and opinions thrown around here. the facts are hard to weed out and even then the true facts are sometimes only situational dependant and may not apply to real life variables.

I consider myself 'poor'. however even i could aford a new OS and system if i chose... fact tho, its NOT economical or logical or cheaper, to spend money on a new system or OS as apposed to learning and using safe computer practices. If you are 'poor' tho because of the fact you spend to much money on unneccary things please ignore my comment.

conserning average consumers,
theres more basic security built into new OS's, in that sense i would recommend it to those that really can't do basic things properly on an OS (you know like that parent or family member who could never operate the VCR properly lol). however if your more than capable of using a computer, you should be more than capable of google safe computer and internet practices or similar search.

I don't think a new OS will protect you at all from these mistakes just for example... if it did i would also be recommending it.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ne-blunders/overview/7-online-blunders-ov.htm

Another fact all variables accounted for: in 10yrs people are going to be saying the same for win8... bla bla win8 kernel is soo insecure i wouldn't even touch it with an ugly stick.

....what i would be more interested in is what all these posters are doing where they feel as tho they are being specificically targeted by people soo tech savy that can.... Find out there IP without the end User even doing anything at all online... then hack through there routers and firewall, access and copy all there encrypted files off there computer remotely, find out there home address, access and retrieve all the bank acount funds without leaving a trace, and sending an blackmail note to there home addy after whipping there HDD remotely stating ransom terms to get there private top secret world shattering end of the world data back??????????????? SERIOUSLY, you know who i would target if i had those Skilllz? Gates, Buffet, Mansano, anyone besides me. If you have to worry about that shit INVU.

However considering the majority of people can be considered 'poor' there is no logical reason to suggest 'everyone' upgrade from a perfectly more than capable OS for average daily tasks to a shiny new OS that they will be doing the exact same stuff they could already do on the old one?

It makes as much sense as upgrade your current car(in proper operating condition) to a new car, you still need a drivers license, insurance, etc.. and the new car will not prevent you from making mistakes and getting into accidents(until self driving cars are produced maybe).

good reasons to ignore my post:
- you can afford to constantly upgrade
- you can't afford to constantly upgrade but have no goals in life(assuming your goal isn't constantly upgrading your OS with no good reason)
- your a gamer who needs DX11 and believes anyone else in the world who does not game also for some reason requires DX11

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't think a new OS will protect you at all from these mistakes just for example... if it did i would also be recommending it.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ne-blunders/overview/7-online-blunders-ov.htm

Those suggestions are pretty LOL-worthy.

1st mistake: Suggesting that downloads from download.com are safe and don't include spyware. (Download.com repackages software and adds their own adware to them.)

2nd mistake: Suggesting that clicking on the "X" in the upper-right corner of "fake security scanner" malware pop-ups is safe. It's most definitely not. The only safe way to get rid of those, is to bring up Task Manager, and force-kill your browser. Do NOT ever click ANYWHERE on ANY of those pop-ups.

But I get your bigger point from your post, that people that practice "safe hex" are unlikely to get "p0wn3d" online. Still, there is something to be said for using a safe browsing platform in the first place, no matter how good your practices are. There's a lot more "bad stuff" on the internet these days, and even limiting your visits to "safe" sites, isn't going to keep you completely safe. Maybe 99% safe, but do you want to risk CryptoLocker coming in on a tainted advertisement?

 

[Imaginer]

Still, there is something to be said for using a safe browsing platform in the first place, no matter how good your practices are. There's a lot more "bad stuff" on the internet these days, and even limiting your visits to "safe" sites, isn't going to keep you completely safe. Maybe 99% safe, but do you want to risk CryptoLocker coming in on a tainted advertisement?

And even on Steam's client, I had an Avira flag after triggering an update to the Angry Video Game Nerd Videogame about a month ago. It is possibly not just limited to solely internet browsers, but can extend to services as well.

 

[jolancer]

Those suggestions are pretty LOL-worthy.

You are probably right. I did not read them, it could be dated. The titles are all true tho of very common average user mistakes.

But I get your bigger point from your post, that people that practice "safe hex" are unlikely to get "p0wn3d" online. Still, there is something to be said for using a safe browsing platform in the first place, no matter how good your practices are. There's a lot more "bad stuff" on the internet these days, and even limiting your visits to "safe" sites, isn't going to keep you completely safe. Maybe 99% safe, but do you want to risk CryptoLocker coming in on a tainted advertisement?

I don't follow malware etc. but i briefly looked up the one u mentinoed and it made me LOL. thats a good one(2Thumbs up for whoever made it). And would sux if you don't have a backup of your important data. If you do theres nothing that can stop you from reformatting and if you have a proper backup image, restoring your system only takes a couple steps and a few minutes. no matter the OS

virus malware etc that intense though i would assume needs user interaction for it to exacute. most of the ad's and garbage are blocked out from the start anyway if your using something like Adblock and NoScript browser plugin.

if you keep digging deep enough i personally would be saprized if All of your computers did NOT contain some form of malware anyway, as tech continues to grow and time goes on theres more backdoors being built into stuff from the getgo. I could be wrong but my assumption would be that the majority of malware anyway even if its already built in, its purpose is not malitious toward your OS but intrusive in terms of privacy for data compaines to make money on statistics for selling to companies to target there products at you, IMO at least they have a point for intruding as aposed to the government thats doing far worse for no reason(if your in the USA im refering to). Also if theres any constant in life so far i have yet only found it to be irony, and if that holds true the Anti-virus and apps you use to scan for virus's and malware etc are most likely using a form of malware themself. win8 could already have backdoors and malware builtin.

I don't make recomendations on how others should attempt to handle malware virus's etc, I do recomend basic safe practices tho. I personally however don't even install or use anti-virus/malware/etc. I just have a Data backup, an OS image for restore, and basic stuff like a firewall, browser plugins and a hosts file.... if anything happens i hit a few buttons and my OS partition is back to when it was a clean install and already setup.

 

[88keys]

http://www.informationweek.com/software/operating-systems/windows-xp-wont-go-quietly/d/d-id/1113331

I admit to still having a softspot for XP.

It would be cool if M$ offered free or discounted copies of Windows 8 to people still running XP. I doubt they would do that, but it might be effective in reducing the number of XP systems online.


IIRC, Windows 95 or 98 lingered around past it's expiration date for a little while. I think it might have been that blaster worm that ended up being the death knell for it.

 

[lakedude]

It would be cool if M$ offered free or discounted copies of Windows 8 to people still running XP.

Didn't they do that? W8 was dirt cheap for certain people when it first came out. Don't remember the details.

 

[ViRGE]

Didn't they do that? W8 was dirt cheap for certain people when it first came out. Don't remember the details.

Yes. And for business customers Windows 8 is practically free (or rather no additional cost) since it's part of their site licenses.

 

[mechBgon]

Didn't they do that? W8 was dirt cheap for certain people when it first came out. Don't remember the details.

Yes, it was $40 for Win8 Pro upgrade.

Forced obsolescence is the name of the game. It's why Office 2013 / 365 only work on Windows 7 and 8. Why else, because writing words on a page or calculating a row of figures is terribly advanced stuff? Can anyone remember some huge leap forward in Office functionality because it took advantage of new Windows features? Same goes for IE's history.

That last bit's off-base. IE does in fact use capabilities that were introduced with Vista (Registry/file-system virtualization and Windows Integrity Control, used to achieve Protected Mode; also ASLR), enhanced in Win7, and new capabilities in Win8 (e.g. HEASLR and AppContainer sandboxing) which were further improved in Win8.1, some of which have been backported partially to Win7. WinXP doesn't even support basic ASLR. Cars with no shoulder belts or airbags, anyone?

On that note, I think part of Microsoft's push is that if they want to remain a big cheese in the wildly-exploding technology scene, they need a platform that isn't ridiculed for its insecurity, which is what supporting WinXP in an increasingly sophisticated threat environment would achieve in spades.

 

[nemesismk2]

I will still have a Windows XP Pro system because lots of my software will only work with Windows XP and yes i have tried Windows 7 but i will not have interent access with Windows XP so no threat there. I can't say i will be using Windows 7 for much longer either because i have been using Ubuntu more than Windows 7 this year and quite a lot of last year as well.

 

[blankslate]

I'm thinking that MS may be jeopardizing the internet by stopping support for XP.

However, it's in some ways out of their hands because they cannot make XP inherently more secure than it is but only plug holes that new exploits discover in the OS.

Also the economic landscape as well as the fact that even early 2000's computers can do just about everything on the internet available atm have made it more practical to hang on to XP machines when better personal circumstances (in some cases) or a need for more computing power might have provided impetus for people on xp machines to upgrade.

MS is in a position that's difficult. XP while it was improved to a fine OS is too long in the tooth now to be practical to support but it's also too well liked and there will be millions of XP machine owners left in a lurch in April.


..

 

[XiandreX]

Bullet points:

• as soon as April comes, every single machine running XP connected to the internet is going to turn into a zombie, victim of malware and malicious hacks that haven't yet gone into the wild. Hackers and crackers are just waiting until Microsoft says "alright, we won't be patching bugs anymore" and then they'll start exploiting those holes they've known all along and save up for Christmas. Christmas comes in April for them, next year.
• if you're still using XP and your computer won't run Windows 7 decently, you have one of three choices:
- disconnect from the internet;
- install Linux;
- buy a new computer.
• most people don't know this, but you can actually can run MORE software on a Linux with Wine installed than in any single Windows version. Wine is very advanced and constantly updated. It runs pretty much everything...
• you can use something called "virtual machines" to run Windows XP (or any other OS) inside Windows 7, for example. It's not nearly as fast, and it actually requires a beefy machine to run alright (won't run on your 400$ craptop), but it can save you if you really need to run a specific application that only runs on XP.

I'm very excited for April 2014. It's all going down burning, and it's going to be awesome! I can't wait to read all the news about how thousands loose their personal data to a 13 year old operating system.

I think your first bullet point is probably going to happen as sad as that is.

 

[nemesismk2]

I think microsoft is playing a very dangerous game with the internet

 

[Imaginer]

Yup. Rental software is about the only way left you can make proprietary software worse.

We are doing that anyways. This is OUTSIDE computing platforms...

The roads we drive on, tax paid into for upkeep and usage. Toll roads? Same deal, but privatized.

Law enforcement for "general" protection? Tax payments. Public school systems? Water utilities? Electric utilities?

Back to the digital realm, internet services.

If you truly believe in just paying once, you need to live in the middle of nowhere in your own land, supporting your own facilities, defending your own property, and basically being your own. But that is not likely happening for MANY, MANY people.

The operating system, and many other software out there, may very well become a utility.

Another thing, some forum goers are keen to jump around to different hardware, all new, incremental upgrades. There are some that are still holding on to that Athlon XP machine (I have mine, dormant, unpowered for years, a relic).

Saying that XP is going off support and clamming Microsoft for it, is the same thing that I do not find lot of fanfare about when Apple did a same turnabout with a hardware change, OS changes, etc. And likewise with older phones.

Things change, things get old, things are not supported. It is the SAME THING with cars too. Older models cease production on OEM parts for replacements. Factory lines close down to make room for newer made parts. You can't be serious in seeing things stay forever (outside of standard nuts and bolts).

And going Linux? You just forced people to even rely more on themselves for computer upkeep and security more than ever. If people had a hard enough time figuring out how to navigate desktop wallpaper changes (no joke, there are some people that have no clue that they are able to do this), then what makes anyone think a Linux option that does not have a blanket friendly (and auto perpetual) way to keep computer housekeeping up to date?

And houses too going back to the physical side of things. Buildings outlive their welcome to deteriorating past any inexpensive ways of upkeep. Houses that are foreclosed past the point where it is just easier to empty the lot for a new one? Old buildings that were not up kept to prolong their life needed to be taken down? That happens.

Our own bodies are not perpetual either. Pretty soon, we go. We go away. And there is not a replacement for it.

And those donations to free and open sites? It is a perpetual payment to keep it running. No different there either. The minute there isn't any significant volunteer contribution, drastic measures would be taken.

 

[lxskllr]

The operating system, and many other software out there, may very well become a utility.

Yup, that's what the companies want. That doesn't mean it's desirable. Anyone who relies on rental software is a fool.

And going Linux? You just forced people to even rely more on themselves for computer upkeep and security more than ever. If people had a hard enough time figuring out how to navigate desktop wallpaper changes (no joke, there are some people that have no clue that they are able to do this), then what makes anyone think a Linux option that does not have a blanket friendly (and auto perpetual) way to keep computer housekeeping up to date?

GNU/Linux takes care of itself. You literally have to do nothing but press the upgrade button that's sitting in the panel. Every single package gets upgraded through that system, including the core system. No hunting down obscure, insecure binaries/utilities that most people have no idea about. The O/S takes care of it for you. GNU/Linux is truly the idiot's perfect machine. It can be made as complicated as one wants to, but computing doesn't get any easier.

 

[Imaginer]

Yup, that's what the companies want. That doesn't mean it's desirable. Anyone who relies on rental software is a fool.

GNU/Linux takes care of itself. You literally have to do nothing but press the upgrade button that's sitting in the panel. Every single package gets upgraded through that system, including the core system. No hunting down obscure, insecure binaries/utilities that most people have no idea about. The O/S takes care of it for you. GNU/Linux is truly the idiot's perfect machine. It can be made as complicated as one wants to, but computing doesn't get any easier.

That is just for the pure OS. Now the other part of the battle, making all other software work, hardware, and peripherals.

Wine, I have reservations. Amongst CAD, painting, Office collaboration, Steam Windows games, none of them will work possibly to the same degree I have it as is under Windows. If there is not a dramatic change in the NT 6.x runtime operations, then it is better (from a logistics point) to not throw a wrench and middle-ware to have the same level of functionality.

I also rather not experiment, throwing any computer system out of line for the sake of "religious" turn over. It functions, and functions well enough.

XP does too. So does obsolete consoles. Any electronics in a manner functions. The ONLY thing that will deter XP, is the silliness of internet threats.

From the data mining of companies (I do not mind, let them know my usage for them to better their services) to outright thieves that want to get any personal information (in a manner that is targeting people like a needle in a haystack for many personal computers), to companies with a badly implemented IT program that refuses to update in accordance to the threats if their systems are desired to be internet connected, all of that cat and mouse cyber-security game is being constantly played.

Just because XP's internet support is coming to an end, as a stand alone non-internet machine, it is still fine - just like any other old computer machines.

To offer a new life to a computer to continue to be in the internet waters, Linux is fine, by itself with basic internet functions. Hunting for replacement software across the board to get even the remotely same capabilites (or for that matter, getting previous software to work with a new OS) is another uphill battle. And I do not think you can safely say "push this button" and everything on that front will work like that.

 

[Imaginer]

If you truly believe in just paying once, you need to live in the middle of nowhere in your own land, supporting your own facilities, defending your own property, and basically being your own. But that is not likely happening for MANY, MANY people.

The operating system, and many other software out there, may very well become a utility.

And even if you are having a self reliant system (living in a cabin in a self-sustaining system), there is still PERPETUAL costs involved, just as costly as one where the individual self effort can be offloaded via offered services by others.

In a sense, government, towns, cities, they are in a sense OPERATING SYSTEMS. Same with computers. Would it be nice that we all can agree and have the SAME needs and wants to not illicit any conflict? World peace scenario. But that is the ideal, no friction case that is only seen in example physics problems.

But going to that sameness, we are going against individualism. So what is it? People want to be different, but people expect these differences to work with no conflict? People want to be individuals, yet buy into the same trends to belong?

I went philosophical. I apologize.

 

[Imaginer]

On top of that, 8 and 8.1 without any exotic hardware configurations, can run on older hardware. A year ago, $40 can be had for an upgrade to Windows 8. People bitched and moan, they made their beds, and not realize that support will eventually have to phase out because staff at Microsoft is working on the latest iteration.

They had their warning once before when the mainstream support dates were announced and executed, in 2009. Now it is the same game all over again.

And those that tried Windows 7 when it was in beta? Probably a lot of good feedback, hence why it was so successful. With 8? I do not think anyone gave a damn. And that is about as democratic as it can be, without having the typical user down to the code and software development or needing to muck with anything. I think it was foolish to remove the Start menu too, and not provide the option for a robust tutorial. What you see there, is a result of the management practices that has built over time in that company. Everyone isolated, everyone out for themselves.

Just recently, there has been a change in Microsoft performance management practices. I hope for the best with that.

 

[piasabird]

I recommend buying a new computer every 4 years at least. Stuff just wares out. Good luck getting win8 to work with really old hardware. Win 8 would not run on my 775 socket E7200 core 2 Duo Motherboard with integrated graphics. I tried it and it sucked to the high heavens.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I recommend buying a new computer every 4 years at least. Stuff just wares out. Good luck getting win8 to work with really old hardware. Win 8 would not run on my 775 socket E7200 core 2 Duo Motherboard with integrated graphics. I tried it and it sucked to the high heavens.

Interesting. For fun and games I once installed Win8 (x86, preview) on an original MSI Windbook (first one they made, ATOM N270+1GB RAM). It ran way better then the original XP...

 

[exdeath]

Still have an old PC with XP 32 bit I use for old 16 bit dev tools for console hacking, chip flashing, etc.

The image is about 10 years old. My original XP image that I've never had to reinstall.

16 running processes on start up.

Everything about it is instant. Even the startup, it goes from POST to desktop, you never even get to see the XP splash. The display actually lags behind because it can't keep up with the display mode changes during startup.

 

[imagoon]

Win8 runs on a Dell D600 better than XP also. Not exactly a rocking laptop anymore either.

 

[escrow4]

After rebuilding my office box to a 4770 with 16GB RAM, a pair of 1TB SSD's and assorted HDD's (5TB where art thou?) I always chuckle at those running along on creaky ancient hardware and OS's. If you think a Core 2 is sufficient for an office box now, its not. There are substantial differences between modern hardware and old junk, even if both have SSD's. I will laugh even harder when April hits and its bye bye XP and bye bye MSE support for XP. BOOM! Infection time!