Is Microsoft retarded?

[Amol S.]

Saying that the Windows Phone is dead is alright, and i have no problems with that what so ever. But, saying that there would be no further mobile developments disappoints me, especially since there were many who said that there would be a Surface Phone.

If Microsoft was to make a Surface Phone, they would be a small step forward to changing the whole entire market. When the first Surface tablet came out, it came with an RT version of Windows installed. However, as time progressed the surface eventually had the desktop version of Windows installed, where users could install any type of program from the internet.

If Microsoft followed the same path that they did with the Surface tablet, they could have made the first phone that runs on a fully fledged modern desktop version of Windows. Which would most likely spell dooms day for all laptop manufacturers.

 

[Roland00Address]

Question for you how much do you think it costs to develop and maintain a surface phone with R&D and such?

And how many phones you will think be sold?

----

Once you answer those questions how much profit you think each phone sold will get?

Lets say microsoft sells a million phones aka what the HTC 10 sold last year (14 million total phones sold but less than a million flagship htc 10s). You have to make a whole lot per phone to pay back R&D, marketing, software maintenance, etc.

 

[Red Storm]

If any company wants to try and be competitive with Apple & Google in the mobile OS space, they have to make deals with all the major app makers before public launch to have any kind of chance IMHO. I think Microsoft's current strategy of going with Android phones that are preloaded with MS default apps and services is the best way to go for them.

 

[UsandThem]

https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11766344/microsoft-nokia-impairment-layoffs-may-2016

Microsoft wrote off $7.6 billion last year and cut 7,800 jobs to refocus its phone efforts. Microsoft is now writing off an additional $950 million today as part of its failed Nokia acquisition, and the company plans to cut a further 1,850 jobs.

I think after taking close to $9 billion in losses over their last failed phone attempt, it is anything but "retarded" (BTW OP, there are a lot better professional terms to use besides this when talking about tech/business topics) to cut their losses, and refocus on products and services that actually make money. They were too late with too little when they first tried to get into the smartphone business. Pretty much an exact repeat of the infamous Zune.

 

[mikegg]

I worked at a popular app with tens of millions of users.

I remember back in 2014, a team from Microsoft met with us to try to convince us to develop a version of our app for Windows phone. They had actually built one themselves by wrapping our website into a ghetto app without our permission.

Needless to say, we looked at the numbers and it made no sense to develop an app for Windows.

Putting Windows on a 4.5inch screen won't work.

No body wants Windows on a mobile phone.

 

[GoodEnough]

Yes. They have been for 2 decades now.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Saying that the Windows Phone is dead is alright, and i have no problems with that what so ever. But, saying that there would be no further mobile developments disappoints me, especially since there were many who said that there would be a Surface Phone.

If Microsoft was to make a Surface Phone, they would be a small step forward to changing the whole entire market. When the first Surface tablet came out, it came with an RT version of Windows installed. However, as time progressed the surface eventually had the desktop version of Windows installed, where users could install any type of program from the internet.

If Microsoft followed the same path that they did with the Surface tablet, they could have made the first phone that runs on a fully fledged modern desktop version of Windows. Which would most likely spell dooms day for all laptop manufacturers.

And you'd have to be retarded to think that would be profitable for Microsoft and that they'd sell enough to even make the investment. Been there and they failed.

 

[quikah]

Putting Windows on a 4.5inch screen won't work.

No body wants Windows on a mobile phone.

windowsphone is not "windows on a 4.5 inch screen". it actually works quite well. it is a shame that it didn't become more popular.

 

[Red Storm]

windowsphone is not "windows on a 4.5 inch screen". it actually works quite well. it is a shame that it didn't become more popular.

I actually think calling it Windows did not help at all, and possibly had a negative impact. Microsoft seemed to think that people love Windows, so they'd fall in love with a phone OS that was also "Windows".

 

[core2slow]

Don't ever go into business, OP.

 

[quikah]

I actually think calling it Windows did not help at all, and possibly had a negative impact. Microsoft seemed to think that people love Windows, so they'd fall in love with a phone OS that was also "Windows".

I agree, they really should have named it something else. Something like TileOS maybe (or ZuneOS since they took a lot of design cues from it, zOS to hide the Zune failure ). Really windowsphone didn't even make any sense, there are no windows. Oh well, I truly did love it, perfect interface for me, so sad it failed.

 

[gorcorps]

Yes. They have been for 2 decades now.

http://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/prices/microsoft-corp-stock-price-history

Microsoft is doing just fine, just not in the same markets people are used to seeing them in

 

[LPCTech]

If there were a...lets say 6.2in screened device with minimal bezel. Running full desktop windows 10 pro, in tablet mode, with stylus. On an x86/64 2+Ghz cpu with 6-8GB ram. And I could make calls and text. I'd buy that. Depending on price.

 

[WelshBloke]

If there were a...lets say 6.2in screened device with minimal bezel. Running full desktop windows 10 pro, in tablet mode, with stylus. On an x86/64 2+Ghz cpu with 6-8GB ram. And I could make calls and text. I'd buy that. Depending on price.

You might but nowhere near as many people as needed to make it successful would.

 

[Harry_Wild]

If any company wants to try and be competitive with Apple & Google in the mobile OS space, they have to make deals with all the major app makers before public launch to have any kind of chance IMHO. I think Microsoft's current strategy of going with Android phones that are preloaded with MS default apps and services is the best way to go for them.

Google's Pixel smartphones 1st generation, sold for the whole year - 365 day; the same amount as Apple sold for one day on their iPhones.

 

[Red Storm]

Google's Pixel smartphones 1st generation, sold for the whole year - 365 day; the same amount as Apple sold for one day on their iPhones.

Not sure what that has to do with anything?

 

[IamDavid]

WP failed because Balmer was a fool throwing billions at Nokia.
New strategy should be:

• Release Windows on ARM
• Surface Phone
  • Business centric to start. Leveraging Office and administrative controls.
• Buy Mobile Carrier (T-Mobile)
• Offer Phone+OS on all devices+Office as a service.
  • $175\month - Surface Phone running on ARM processor, integrating Windows and Office across all devices.(including XBOX Live)
• Buy home ISP
  • $200\month all in.
• Integrate AR services to all platforms. Don't bother with VR, it'll never be widely used. AR for business is HUGE. Skype using AR is going to be a game changer. HoloLense version is already amazing.
  • Add to subscription service package. +$10\month
• Perfect Cortana as an integrated, cross platform AI focussing heavily on Outlook integration. Cortana can never succeed on IOS or Android devices. Once it becomes even somewhat successful Apple and Google will break it daily with "updates" and other restrictions. Youtube on WP demonstrated to everyone exactly how it happens.
  
• Partner with Wal-Mart.

Microsoft owns the world again.

 

[hans007]

WP failed because Balmer was a fool throwing billions at Nokia.
New strategy should be:

• Release Windows on ARM
• Surface Phone
  • Business centric to start. Leveraging Office and administrative controls.
• Buy Mobile Carrier (T-Mobile)
• Offer Phone+OS on all devices+Office as a service.
  • $175\month - Surface Phone running on ARM processor, integrating Windows and Office across all devices.(including XBOX Live)
• Buy home ISP
  • $200\month all in.
• Integrate AR services to all platforms. Don't bother with VR, it'll never be widely used. AR for business is HUGE. Skype using AR is going to be a game changer. HoloLense version is already amazing.
  • Add to subscription service package. +$10\month
• Perfect Cortana as an integrated, cross platform AI focussing heavily on Outlook integration. Cortana can never succeed on IOS or Android devices. Once it becomes even somewhat successful Apple and Google will break it daily with "updates" and other restrictions. Youtube on WP demonstrated to everyone exactly how it happens.
  
• Partner with Wal-Mart.

Microsoft owns the world again.

I may be biased because I"m a lifelong clipper fan and he's basically even though we aren't as good right now the savior of my sporting life. But.... he had to try.

They gave it if anything more than a good shot. Apple has some sort of cult like thing going which perplexes me. But you it is hard to beat an open source OS with "google stuff as a requirement". And they had such a head start. Android is the leading platform and it is the platform that the primary company backing it has the least control. Manufacturers don't like being told exactly which way to go, so it was the only way to do it outside of apple.

Case in point, I work on android apps for a streaming place. Our by far more used Android app.... google makes $0 on because.... its on Fire TV. Open source won. Microsoft thought they could straddle the line and manufacturers just didn't put as much effort into it. It could have worked if Android didn't exist and they had started a couple years earlier.

 

[Zaap]

eh. Out of the starting gate, Microsoft had more experience than anyone else in mobile. They had PDAs running Windows Mobile with apps and such long before Apple even dreamed of the iPhone, and long before Android.

Android's existence didn't doom Microsoft in the modern mobile space. They should have been far ahead of other mobile OS's at the starting gun of the smartphone era. They already had a thriving PDA market when Android and iOS were just untested infants.

But Ballmer in particular had no vision, and just didn't understand the smartphone market. Beyond that, Microsoft has the bad habit of believing its own corporate hype, vs the reality of its customers. (Google and Apple are often very guilty of that as well- BUT- they did get smartphones right.)

When Ballmer famously blathered that the iPhone had no chance of success- it was over for Microsoft as a smartphone player. If your company's leader doesn't get it and is blustering full steam ahead in the wrong direction from such an obvious market, stick a fork in it. May take a while for the plane to crash... but it's gonna.

 

[skriefal]

Indeed - and they had smartphones running Pocket PC / Windows CE (the precursor of Windows Mobile) at least 4 years before iPhone or Android. But they thought that the smartphone market would be a small one, limited primarily to business use. If they had put some effort into it they could have owned the smartphone and tablet markets.

 

[MrSquished]

Ballmer was indeed a blustering fool who gets to buy his own basketball team so he is laughing all the way to the bank. It's pretty sad.

 

[Commodus]

There's a clear reason why Microsoft isn't planning new mobile efforts: it missed the boat the first time, and it doesn't have a compelling argument to dislodge Apple and Google with a comeback. Windows is not that argument.

Ballmer's key flaw was, basically, the same as the OP's -- it's that misguided notion that Windows by itself carries inherent value to people, and that Microsoft would dominate a given category if it could just put 'real' Windows on a device. But here's the ugly reality... most people don't care about Windows at all. They use it because it's what came on that $300 clearance laptop or their work PC. They settle for it; they tolerate it; they don't love it. If that budget computer shipped with macOS, people would buy it just the same.

And sorry to say, OP, but most people don't care about installing any app they want, either. That appeals intensely to enthusiasts who want to run their favorite utility, but most people just want to post on Instagram, check email and watch Netflix. And without that as an advantage, Microsoft's argument for a Windows Mobile comeback is... what? Live tiles? The Continuum feature that even Windows die-hards didn't use?

If there's ever a Microsoft comeback in mobile, it'll be if/when the company figures out a dramatic new interface concept that represents a dramatic improvement over Android and iOS. And it's not clear that will happen or even can happen at this point. It may end up being a complete break from phones as we know them, like wearable computing or stand-alone AR/VR.

Also: any chance we can get a better title for this thread? We could use something more mature and respectful.

 

[bot2600]

I think the main thing that could be an issue for Microsoft in not have a phone offering is people are buying into ecosystems now, and a lot of that time spent in ecosystem is on their phone, so it opens a door for them to lose the desktop if Apple and Google make a real push for that market. And releasing their office apps on iOS and Android (as well as Edge) don't make those devices their ecosystem.

I know Microsoft is trying to be more of a services company now, but I think losing the desktop would hurt them a lot more than they may be thinking it will. Docker and other containerization technologies are already killing Windows Server, so there is just so much chipping away at all the corners of their business, and I dont know if the replacements are as long lasting as the items they are replacing.

 

[AMDisTheBEST]

Windows failed as bad the ubuntu phones. This is what get for trying to bring shrink desktop into a mobile.

 

[quikah]

Windows failed as bad the ubuntu phones. This is what get for trying to bring shrink desktop into a mobile.

And again, Windowsphone 7/8 and Windows 10 Mobile have nothing even slightly resembling a desktop. That was Pocket PC/Windows Mobile (yeah naming confusion) which was originally release 17 years ago.