Question Is my "ancient" PSU from 2005 a problem?

[jana519]

Fellow old timers, I need some help. Here's the scoop, I have a Antec Neo HE430 from 2005, a socket 1151 motherboard from 2015, Celeron G3900, and 16gb DDR4. The motherboard won't post, when I press power it spins the CPU fan and the LEDs turn on, then shuts down after 1-2 seconds.

I feel like the PSU should work, but am I wrong? The PSU was tested working in a Core i5-2400 desktop with DDR3 RAM. It has 24 pin and 4 pin ATX connectors, so mechanically at least it's compliant.

If I post this on Reddit I feel like every 20 y.o. kid is going to yell "Your PSU is too old, buy a new PSU" But there's nothing offered beyond a vague idea that old = bad. Is that true?



So I want to know what does AT forums think, is my PSU too old for this motherboard?

 

[Tech Junky]

every 20 y.o. kid

It's as old as they are so, yeah.

You might have a myriad of issues causing the failure to boot. Get a PSU tester for $20 and see if everything lights up. Otherwise a new 850w PSU is $100 and has a 10 year warranty on it and should last well beyond that.

 

[jana519]

It's as old as they are so, yeah.

You might have a myriad of issues causing the failure to boot. Get a PSU tester for $20 and see if everything lights up. Otherwise a new 850w PSU is $100 and has a 10 year warranty on it and should last well beyond that.

So the PSU itself could be bad, but it isn't non-compliant with a Skylake motherboard, is it? I mean if it was 100% working perfect then it would be compatible and power the motherboard fine?

I do hate the idea of throwing it away simply because it's old. I have an Innova 3320 multimeter, so I can test it that way.

 

[Tech Junky]

Test it for functionality and proceed from there. "compatibility" is just a set of standards. If the output from the PSU is high enough for the sum of the parts on the MOBO then it should work just fine. However, over time the innards of the PSU will degrade and 20 years is pushing it.

In a perfect world of 24/7 operation w/o any power losses it shouldn't have much wear on the parts. It's the cycling that kills electronics.

 

[jana519]

Test it for functionality and proceed from there. "compatibility" is just a set of standards. If the output from the PSU is high enough for the sum of the parts on the MOBO then it should work just fine. However, over time the innards of the PSU will degrade and 20 years is pushing it.

In a perfect world of 24/7 operation w/o any power losses it shouldn't have much wear on the parts. It's the cycling that kills electronics.

Hey this was a great idea! I remembered my Innova Multimeter that sits unused in the closet, so I busted that out. Every pin voltage tolerance was within range, according to the chart I found here: https://www.makeuseof.com/power-supply-unit-psu-test-with-multimeter/

Now, I am feeling much better about my PSU so I want to say thank you for the reminder.

Now what's truly strange is I have ordered 2 motherboards from eBay sellers, both LGA 1151, both described as "working pulls" but had no RAM, and seller hadn't powered them up to test.

In both times the motherboard was not working, and the behavior was exactly the same. CPU fan and LEDs would power on for 1-2 seconds, then turn off. Also, with a speaker connected to the motherboard, it would make a "click" sound but not beep.

Is this simply a bizarre coincidence? Should I be looking at returning the brand new Corsair DDR4 I bought from Amazon, does this symptom sound like RAM failure?

 

[Tech Junky]

Well, you could test with a single RAM stick and see if the issue persists.

"working pulls" without a power test leaves them to be a bit suspect in my book.

Assembling a system though isn't rocket science bur more of a jigsaw in piecing things together where they fit. I've had instances though where I thought things were fully seated but weren't and caused some oddities. My GPU wasn't fully seated and caused the fans to hit 100%. RAM wasn't seated fully but, still booted minus the stick not fully seated being usable. I had a couple of sticks I had been using for years and when I rebuilt to a new MOBO one of them got fried somehow. S happens sometimes when we least expect it and maybe the issue is the CPU itself not being happy. If that's the case you're chasing everything but the obvious CPU being damaged / dead.

 

[jana519]

Yep. I tried different configurations with the RAM sticks. Tried clearing the CMOS. Nothing worked. It's just frustrating that it powers on for a second and then turns off. Rather it was completely dead so I stop fussing with it.

 

[Tech Junky]

Two boards and same CPU same result.

 

[In2Photos]

OK a couple of questions to help narrow things down.

1. What motherboard are you using?
2. How do you know the Celeron processor works?
3. How do you know the RAM works?
4. Where are you assembling the PC? In a case or open air for testing?
5. What other components are connected to the motherboard when you try to power it on?

I have a 15ish year old Corsair PSU still running a system from 2009 so older PSUs don't scare me that much if it is still going in that old system. I wouldn't move it to a new one though. If that system gets replaced (it just runs FAH 24/7 these days) the PSU is getting replaced too. I might hang on to it to use for testing or as an emergency PSU, but that's it.

 

[jana519]

OK a couple of questions to help narrow things down.

1. What motherboard are you using?
2. How do you know the Celeron processor works?
3. How do you know the RAM works?
4. Where are you assembling the PC? In a case or open air for testing?
5. What other components are connected to the motherboard when you try to power it on?

I have a 15ish year old Corsair PSU still running a system from 2009 so older PSUs don't scare me that much if it is still going in that old system. I wouldn't move it to a new one though. If that system gets replaced (it just runs FAH 24/7 these days) the PSU is getting replaced too. I might hang on to it to use for testing or as an emergency PSU, but that's it.

1. Motherboard is Gigabyte GA-H110M-S2H Link
2. I haven't verified that the CPU works because I bought it on eBay as a bare chip. No physical damage though
3. I haven't verified that the RAM works either. I bought it new on Amazon 2 weeks ago. Corsair Vengeance LPX 16gb (2x8gb) DDR4 2666Mhz 1.2V
4. Assembled on a desk aka open air
5. There's nothing else connected besides the CPU, RAM, and CPU fan. No GPU, keyboard, nothing

Yes, I agree that an ancient PSU shouldn't go into a new system. For older/used systems though, I personally have no problems running a PSU until it fails. PSU failures typically don't cause catastrophic damage to data or components, normally it just looks like the PC switching off or behaving funny. The only time where a PSU failing causes catastrophic damage to components is if it catches fire. I don't have any fear of a fire hazard with this unit, it's as well-built as any modern PSU.

SilentPC did a review of my PSU here. Definitely several notches below the Seasonic S12 series, but not a bad PSU by any means.

 

[jana519]

Here are some pictures I took of assembly/testing when I was talking to the seller and trying to figure out the problem

https://imgur.com/a/g8eGt2i

The Intel OEM cooler actually had one pin broken off, which was how it was on arrival.

 

[In2Photos]

Only having a single 4 pin attached to the ATX is probably an issue. The manual doesn't say a single 4 pin will work. Something else I notice is that the memory support for your motherboard only shows up to 2400, but it has to be downclocked to 2133. So your 2666 may be a problem.

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-h110m-s2h.pdf?v=86a54e07c90627489cc05daa61124458

 

[jana519]

Only having a single 4 pin attached to the ATX is probably an issue. The manual doesn't say a single 4 pin will work. Something else I notice is that the memory support for your motherboard only shows up to 2400, but it has to be downclocked to 2133. So your 2666 may be a problem.

https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-h110m-s2h.pdf?v=86a54e07c90627489cc05daa61124458

Yes, that's the list of QVL memory. But I'm pretty sure that QVL lists aren't exclusive, it just means that those are the memory kits that Gigabyte tested and confirmed working in the factory.

It does say the memory speed downclocks to 2133 from 2400. Wouldn't that also be the case for 2666 or 3200 memory too, though? I believe the memory speeds shouldn't disqualify it, as long as the voltage and pin numbers are compliant. That's my understanding.

I did take a look at the manual and interestingly, it says:

It says it's "recommended" to use a PSU of 500w or higher, that's not a hard disqualification of PSUs below 500w though. Also the pinout says pins 1, 2, 5, and 6 are "only for 2x4 pin 12v" connectors, so that sounds to me like it's optional.

 

[jana519]

Update:

Because the motherboard would not post after trying all the recommendations/suggestions, on a whim I decided hey, let me pull the RAM sticks completely and run it in RAM less configuration. This is the result:

Video (volume on)

With no RAM inserted in the motherboard, it stays powered on and the internal speaker beeps 5 times (4 long beeps, one short beep). A Google search for "gigabyte motherboard beep code" says 5 beeps indicates bad CPU, but of course there's no RAM in the system.

I can't say for certain either RAM, CPU, or motherboard is bad. Really hard to say for certain what is going on here, but if I actually had a spare 1151 combo that worked for certain, I could test each part individually. This is why I recommend not buying core components in separate pieces, but together as a combo with the seller having a recent screenshot of BIOS proving it was tested to boot.

 

[WilliamM2]

Update:

Because the motherboard would not post after trying all the recommendations/suggestions, on a whim I decided hey, let me pull the RAM sticks completely and run it in RAM less configuration. This is the result:

Video (volume on)

With no RAM inserted in the motherboard, it stays powered on and the internal speaker beeps 5 times (4 long beeps, one short beep). A Google search for "gigabyte motherboard beep code" says 5 beeps indicates bad CPU, but of course there's no RAM in the system.

I can't say for certain either RAM, CPU, or motherboard is bad. Really hard to say for certain what is going on here, but if I actually had a spare 1151 combo that worked for certain, I could test each part individually. This is why I recommend not buying core components in separate pieces, but together as a combo with the seller having a recent screenshot of BIOS proving it was tested to boot.

I would use a different stick of DDR3 if you have one. Easiest way to see if ram is the issue.
If you don't a different system to temporarily take a stick from, maybe you could borrow one.

 

[jana519]

Yeah, am just considering returning the RAM at this point.

I just pulled the trigger on a complete socket 1151 CPU/Mobo/RAM combo on eBay. I messaged the seller and he said it was tested and working. So I think I'm good now, I can probably find what the problem is by using those parts.

Thanks to everyone for all the help, it made a big difference.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The Intel OEM cooler actually had one pin broken off, which was how it was on arrival.

Pin? As in, pin going through mobo? Or 4-pin fan connector pin?

I was going to say, behaviour resembles fail-safe for CPU fan failing to cool or spin-up. Though, just the heatsink mass, IF prfoperly attached to CPU and thus mobo, should be enough to prevent a mere Celeron from thermal runaway. They're like 33W CPUs.

I'm going to chalk this one up to bad luck, buying untested CPU and untested RAM.

Although, how can you call yourself a true computer enthusiast, if you don't have a "working bench PSU" floating around. Just teasing. I don't either, anymore.

 

[BoomerD]

The old PSU isn’t necessarily a concern..as long as it has the correct cabling and pin- outs. If it was used at max capacity ll its life…then MAYBE it’s time to be replaced. I have a Corsair HX620 PSU from 2006 or 2007 that I just took out of service when I built a new rig and went with a 750 watt unit. I’m keeping it as a spare.

 

[jana519]

Pin? As in, pin going through mobo? Or 4-pin fan connector pin?

I was going to say, behaviour resembles fail-safe for CPU fan failing to cool or spin-up. Though, just the heatsink mass, IF prfoperly attached to CPU and thus mobo, should be enough to prevent a mere Celeron from thermal runaway. They're like 33W CPUs.

I'm going to chalk this one up to bad luck, buying untested CPU and untested RAM.

Although, how can you call yourself a true computer enthusiast, if you don't have a "working bench PSU" floating around. Just teasing. I don't either, anymore.

Heyyyy, haha you're right I have no spare PSUs, kind of stopped my PC side hustle after COVID and the USPS raising rates, lots of packages getting lost. Just not a fun "hobby" anymore honestly.

"Pin" meaning the plastic pushpins on the bottom of the OEM cooler. If you look at the album in post #11, you will see it.

Yes, you may be right about the CPU. So what I have done is ordered a complete CPU, mobo, and RAM combo on eBay and specifically asked the seller if it was tested working, and the seller said yes. Although they did not provide a BIOS screenshot to confirm.

That should arrive this week, hopefully then I will be able to use those parts to confirm exactly what the issue was. Will provide an update later.

 

[jana519]

Well the new CPU/Mobo/RAM arrived. Hooked everything up and tried to power on, same issue. Motherboard and CPU fan will briefly power on, then turn off after 2-3 seconds. I guess this means the PSU is the culprit? Even though the PSU was a working pull from an old 2005 AMD system, and the voltages at the pins are all correct? I don't know what to make of it, makes no sense. The PSU worked with the old motherboard. Somehow a new motherboard won't work though?

I don't know what else to do, suppose I just have to buy a new PSU. Feels like such a waste to me, if I'm being honest.

 

[mindless1]

^ AFAIK, bios settings for PSU compatibility are not likely.

I would not do a new build with 20 year old PSU, maybe just on a bench to test incoming parts but not to keep running it everyday in the future, so it is just time to bite the bullet and buy a new PSU, even if it is not as expensive as $100.

There are deals to be had on PSU, even if not on anyone's A-list, something reasonable could be had for $50 or so, maybe a little less on sale. I just wouldn't expect it to last another 20 years.

It becomes a significant issue when all the incoming parts are unqualified or in question, need to start with *something* and ideally, everything except one variable, known suitable for the rest of the build.

 

[Brainonska511]

I wouldn't dream of using a PSU from 2005 with any parts I wasn't ready to throw straight into the trash.

I also thought when the Haswell era came around, PSUs changed to accommodate new low power states that could trip under voltage protection of older PSUs. Another reason to be avoid 20 year old PSUs with modern hardware.

 

[Steltek]

That PSU is old enough to have been manufactured at the tail end of the "bad capacitor" era. I'll bet if you opened it up (not recommending you do this if you don't know what you are doing) you'd find some blown caps in it.

Plus, the HE430 was a "budget" PSU in 2005 (nice description for what was probably a POS PSU sold then).

You definitely got your money's worth out of it if you used it this long without any problems. It is most definitely time for a replacement.

 

[Brainonska511]

It’s clear that using an old PSU from 2005 could definitely be a concern. Even if it’s still working, newer components are more demanding, and older PSUs might not provide consistent or reliable power anymore. I’d suggest considering an upgrade for better efficiency and safety, especially if you’re running modern hardware. Anyone have any tips on what to look for in a new PSU or recommendations for reliable brands?

Helpful things to consider:

80+ Gold, longer warranty (7-10 years; mainly because it shows the brand thinks that it will last), modular (not necessary, but a very nice-to-have feature), and sized appropriately (usually use PCPartPicker to guestimate power consumption, then tack on 200-300 W).

My go-to brand is Corsair with the RM series (I have 2 RM750e supplies I bought from a local Micro Center; they've been working flawlessly). Seasonic is also good (though, there are a few duds). There are so many brands and price points, it's recommended to use your friendly search engine to find recent PSU Tiered Lists that can give a rough idea of quality: https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

 

[Steltek]

Superflower (their Leadex gold line is very good) and FSP are also generally good brands, in my experience. They, together with Seasonic, build OEM PSU units for a huge number of companies that rebadge them. I have had some very good Corsair and EVGA PSUs as well.