Is my CPU too hot?

[timmay586]

I have an Athlon 64 3500 that is not overclocked with a gig of DDR400 running at 2-2-2-6 at 2.7V. Just using Firefox and basic stuff like that, my CPU temp gets up to about 52 degrees or so according to Motherboard Monitor 5. I have an aluminum case with 3 case fans and my power supply has another fan (2 fans actually - one inside the case and one outside), and I am using the normal CPU fan/heatsink. From what I've read this temperature would be high after gaming, let alone doing almost nothing. My case temperature is 32 degrees C. Is this unusual, and if so, what could be the problem? I'd like to overclock in the future but that obviously won't go too well if my CPU is way too hot as it is.

 

[Duvie]

PLease list board you are using....also try speedfan and another monitoring program to see if you get same things...

I agree 52c for probably 10% usage is high since your idle would likely be 48-50c and that was my load temps with my stock cooler and about 2.6ghz with 1.47v....

 

[timmay586]

I have an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum motherboard. Speedfan agrees with MBM, in the low 50s.

 

[Doctorweir]

What thermal grease do you use?

 

[Doctorweir]

I also copy Duvie's estimate...even my little voltage sucker barely hits 50C under load (ok, ok...the cooler I use clearly ownz the stock cooler...)

 

[CaBoOse999]

MSI's temperature monitoring is off.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: CaBoOse999
MSI's temperature monitoring is off.

Agreed...but where???

I use same board and use speedfan and idle at reported 32c and load 49-50c (54c with S&M) at 2.66ghz and 1.57v....Are my temps low and his right??? Or are his borked and mine closer???


Even the bios says like 37c idle which is a tad higher then speedfan or corecenter....

Tha fact is even under extreme load the hetasink is barely warm to the touch...I would fins it hard to belive I am off like 10-15c...I had a P4 that said 60c and that heatsink was hot!!!!

 

[timmay586]

Originally posted by: Doctorweir
What thermal grease do you use?

I don't think I used any...this is the first computer I've ever built. I don't even really know what thermal grease is.

 

[Duvie]

I am sure he used the TIM pad on the underside of the stock heatsink....It is sufficient in most cases with these winnies...

 

[DMonkey]

Thermal grease is a thermal interface material between the CPU and the Heatsink unit. Basically, it transfers heat from the CPU to the heatsink's base. It is a paste like material that you put on while installing the heatsink. Some stock heatsinks come with thermal pads too, which is basically for the same purpose, lowering temps.

If you didn't put on anything like that, that is probably the problem. I suggest getting some Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste, it is very effective.

 

[Duvie]

The purpose is not "to lower temps" it is to fill the slight imperfection of the underside of the heatsink and the IHS of the chip to insure a proper contact fro thermal conduction. The TIM pad will heat up and become alomost liquid and fill into the grooves and imperfection making sure the entire surface it conducting heat....even the side and valleys of the rigids and microscopic pits that may be their in the IHS and HS...

I have seen properly lapped surfaces require no thermal paste and have as good of temps...In some cases TIM pads and over application can hamper thermal conductivity....

Lower temps are a byproduct when and only when the TIM and paste do as they were designed...

 

[timmay586]

OK, thanks for the responses. I'll look into getting some Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste then. How well does this stuff keep (there are 2 different sized tubes on newegg and I want to know if I can just buy the big one now and keep using it for the next few years when I need to upgrade). Also, if it isn't too expensive and it would make a significant difference, should I get a new heatsink/fan and if I do would that void my warranty or anything? Also, is there some web site that would be especially good for buying cooling things like these or is Newegg still good?

 

[htaddict]

timmay586,

1) The small tube will do like 50+ systems (you don't need the big tube).

2)

After reseating my Zalman 7000 heatsink and reapplying the AS5 due to what I thought was wildly fluctuating temps, I discovered the following:

The MSI K8N Neo2 has a known problem measuring the CPU temperature.

When the system boots the BIOS does a calibration of sorts on the temperature probe for the CPU. When you do the first cold boot (thermally cold that is) of the day, the cold calibration has tendency to cause the system to report higher temperatures. Many people have seen that the difference between a thermally cold boot and a warm boot is 10 deg C.

Meaning, if you boot cold the CPU temp will report 10 deg C hotter than if you reboot and the CPU is warmed up.

This offset is calibrated by the system only once during boot up and remains unchanged until you boot again. Apparently the design of the temperature diode in the Athlon 64 can be problematic to read/calibrate. Other boards and manufacturers apparently have had problems but have patched the problem with an updated BIOS (either fixed the problem or hid it).

After many google searches and searching on the MSI Forum, I found a utility that someone created that can read the temperature offset as well as set it.

I have found for my system the difference is 6 deg C.

I created a batch file to log to a csv file every time my system boots to record date and time along with the offset. On a cold boot the offset would be in the 60-63 deg C range (typically 61). On a warm boot the offset would be in the 51-57 degree range (typically 56).

I decided to set my offset to 56 deg C every time my system boots.

Here is a sample from the log I created (last column added manually for reference):

CPU
Offset
Date Time DegC Boot Condition
--------- ----------- ------ --------------
2/28/2005 9:14 AM 61 Cold
2/28/2005 10:54 AM 61 Cold
2/28/2005 11:02 AM 58 Warm
2/28/2005 11:07 AM 56 Warm
2/28/2005 12:02 PM 55 Warm
2/28/2005 12:27 PM 53 Warm
2/28/2005 12:43 PM 53 Warm
2/28/2005 12:44 PM 56 Warm
2/28/2005 1:59 PM 56 Warm
2/28/2005 2:11 PM 55 Warm
2/28/2005 2:17 PM 57 Warm
2/28/2005 2:23 PM 56 Warm
3/1/2005 2:50 PM 62 Cold
3/1/2005 5:26 PM 60 Cold
3/1/2005 7:58 PM 56 Warm
3/1/2005 10:09 PM 57 Warm
3/1/2005 11:43 PM 56 Warm
3/1/2005 11:45 PM 57 Warm
3/1/2005 11:48 PM 57 Warm
3/1/2005 11:55 PM 57 Warm
3/1/2005 11:58 PM 57 Warm
3/2/2005 12:02 AM 57 Warm
3/2/2005 12:13 AM 56 Warm
3/2/2005 12:16 AM 56 Warm
3/2/2005 12:22 AM 56 Warm


Let me know if you want the utility and/or the batch file I created to log to a csv file.

3) Check out this thread too...

 

[Duvie]

Is that maybe just with corecenter?? I mean I cold started my PC make about 1-1/2 weeks ago when I had a virus and was checking out the HDD...I immediately started folding when I bootup and I always launch speedfan and I religiously watch the temps...I saw no difference in reported temps...

What bios are you guys running???

What temp apps are you running???

 

[htaddict]

Happens regardless of monitoring software... CC, SF or MBM5

This is because the BIOS does the offset calibration during bootup. So when the monitoring software (even in BIOS) reads the temp it is adjusted by the offset.

I have run BIOS 1.4 and 1.5 same problem. Others before me have seen the problem on all previous BIOS versions.

You can download the utility from here

If you just run cpu_sensor_offset.exe it will tell you what your current CPU temp offset is. Specify a new number on the command line to set, drop it in your startup with the appropriate parameter (set to run minimized is least obtrusive)...

1. Open up a command shell (Start/Run, type "cmd" in the open box)
2. Change directory into where you unzipped it (e.g. cd c:\cputmpset)
3. run it by typing "cpu_sensor_offset"
4. It should tell you what your current offset is.
5. run it again to set the sensor offset (if you want 56C offset "cpu_sensor_offset 56")
6. Start up corecenter/speedfan/mbm5 and it should show lower temps

Getting this to set the offset to 56 when windows XP boots up:

1. Start, All Programs then right click the "Startup" menu item and choose "Open" from the context menu. Explorer should open in your startup folder.
2. Choose File | New | Shortcut
3. Browse to where you unzipped the program and choose "cpu_sensor_offset.exe"
4. In the box under "Type the location of the item" add a space and a 56 after the program name. You will need quotes around the program file name if the path has any spaces in it. e.g. "C:\cputmpset\cpu_sensor_offset.exe" 56
5. Click next, then finish

6. Optional, right click the new shortcut (probably called cpu_sensor_offset.exe) and choose properties. Click the shortcut tab. Change the run combo to Minimized.


Duvie,

Try running the utility above after a cold boot... meaning it must be the first boot of the system when it is THERMALLY cold (going into bios then booting is enough to warm the cpu and change the offset). (i.e cold/warm boot does not mean hard/soft boot).

Then reboot and read the offset again. You should see that it will vary over time based on ambient and cpu temp when you boot. I have found that the offset is calibrated lower by the system the hotter the cpu is at boot (a quick reboot after prime95 results in low offsets).

Some people have large varability others have less. I only see 6 deg C difference, others see 10 deg C. You might be lucky and only see a few degrees of variability. Newcastle versus winchester may change the amount of variability as well.

Supposedly AMD changed the specs on calibrating/reading the cpu temp diode and this caused problems for several manufacturers.

 

[dklingen]

Curious, is your 3500 a 90nm or 130nm part? 90nm is 65C and 130nm is 70C per this link: http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?p=2880719#post2880719

 

[htaddict]

I have a winchester, but the problem was originally discovered on the newcastles.

First time I heard that the winchesters have a lower max core temp than the newcastles.

Good to know when considering max acceptable temp under load when OCing.

 

[StuffedMonkey]

I have the same scenario with my 3200 Winchester and MSI Neo2 Platinum. On a cold boot, Sandra reports 59-60C at 100% usage, but it drops to 48-49C at 100% usage upon rebooting (warm boot).

 

[genjaguar]

What exactly does the offset number mean?

 

[htaddict]

Simplified explanation:

The offset number is what is added to the value read by the system for the cpu temp.

Assume offset is 56 deg C

For instance... the Bios/MB Hardware reads a value of negative 17 from the CPU dioide
it then adds the offset to this value to get the actual tempature value.

so.... reads -17, adds offset of 56, reports CPU temp of 39 deg C

 

[genjaguar]

What does the value read by the system for the cpu diode mean? My offset was 54 on cold boot and 48 on warm boot.

 

[Duvie]

Hey jackass

This is not for a sckt939 winchester board....

This program controls the CPU temperature sensor offset for the Winbond W83697HF/F on the MSI K8T Neo FIS2R

It is not for use with other boards. Use at your own risk!

Background to the need for this program can be found here:

http://forum.msi.com.tw/thread.php?thre...adview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1


This is in the readme file of the utility you have us download....

Again I have no issues so I think maybe it is ppl who need to update to a different bios....I am running a Neo2 with a 3000+ winchester...I updated to 1.3+ greater bios when I got the board for winchester compatability...