is my motherboard bad or my psu?

[desura]

my computer will not boot. it will not even light up leds.

sometimes it will boot. when it does, everything works fine. i could game for six hours and it would be okay.

it seems that sometimes it will work after i remove the psu and do a paperclip test.

ivy i5 3450
msi motherboard
gtx 560 ti 448
two disc hard drives and ssd
400w pcpower and cooling psu

yes, i know psu is rated a little low but it is considered a quality one. aside from this, no other problems. what is going on?

 

[JManInPhoenix]

The easiest way to check to see if it is the power supply is to check some of the DC voltages coming out of it with a multimeter when the system is in a fail state. checking between yellow & black you should have +12VDC, red to black you should have +5VDC, orange to black +3.3VDC...

 

[desura]

I just tested the PSU using a multimeter.

Everything is fine.

I think what is happening is that I didn't use spacers when mounting my motherboard to my case. There must be a short or something going on?

Anyways, how to solve this? Yes, I know, add spacers, but --

Adding spacers would move the position of the motherboard...and the graphics card lines up just fine in the PCI slot as it is.

 

[denis280]

I think what is happening is that I didn't use spacers when mounting my motherboard to my case

absolutely you are getting a short.put the spacer.or you will damage the board and more.

 

[Mantrid-Drone]

No spacers!!!? Are you saying the MB isn't screwed down at all or it is screwed into the spacer mounting holes?

Either way I would suspect too that is at the heart of the problem and the fact the GPU "lines up just fine......." suggests that it could be working to support the MB rather than the other way around as it is supposed to be. It doesn't bear thinking about what sort of long term damage could have been done if this is the case.

 

[JManInPhoenix]

I just tested the PSU using a multimeter.

Everything is fine.

I think what is happening is that I didn't use spacers when mounting my motherboard to my case. There must be a short or something going on?

Anyways, how to solve this? Yes, I know, add spacers, but --

Adding spacers would move the position of the motherboard...and the graphics card lines up just fine in the PCI slot as it is.

You have to have the standoffs/spacers installed. Make sure that each hole in the motherboard has a corresponding spacer underneath it AND that there are no extra spacers/standoffs touching the board where there is not a hole in the motherboard.

What I do is to remove all standoffs/spacers from the case and then lay the motherboard in the case - aligning all of the corner holes on the motherboard with holes in the case. I next use a sharpie to mark each hole through the motherboard so that the marks will show up on the case when the motherboard is removed. After that, install a standoff for each hole that is marked. If the board has not been damaged, everything should be ok.

 

[desura]

Nylon? Or brass? Should I put in a washer or something?

 

[JManInPhoenix]

They should be metal - your case should have come with the standoffs & screws.

 

[stinger608]

Wait; what case are you using???????

Some cases (usually cheap ones) have built in standoffs on the motherboard tray.

They are usually raised areas where the mounting holes are on the motherboard.

 

[desura]

Wait; what case are you using???????

Some cases (usually cheap ones) have built in standoffs on the motherboard tray.

They are usually raised areas where the mounting holes are on the motherboard.

They were raised areas around the motherboard. I do not know who made the case.

 

[Ketchup]

Just grab a pack of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998144

and you should be good.

As others have mentioned, there seems to be a short somewhere.

 

[desura]

Just grab a pack of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998144

and you should be good.

As others have mentioned, there seems to be a short somewhere.

thx man.

hope there isn't any long-term damage...having to reinstall windows would be a major major PITA

 

[stinger608]

They were raised areas around the motherboard. I do not know who made the case.

Just grab a pack of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998144

and you should be good.

As others have mentioned, there seems to be a short somewhere.

If it's a case that has the built in standoffs then purchasing standoffs and installing them will result in the motherboard being to high off the motherboard tray for the rear I/O motherboard plate and rear peripheral cards!

Can you take a picture of the inside case?

 

[denis280]

Can you take a picture of the inside case?

Yes this would be helpful.

 

[Mantrid-Drone]

Yes, agree ^. Depending on the case, from what I know and have seen, they may use custom height stand-offs. For instance the Corsair 200R case I'm using for my current build has a bizarre mix of fixed stand-offs positioned on the tray ribs 3/8" in height and two custom height removeable ones of about 1" for the screw points in the wells of the tray.

The generic 6-32 stand-offs (6-32 male/female) you usually find being sold online or in computer stores are totally unsuitable for this case. Similarly the almost as common 6-32 male with M3/0.50 female (metric size) stand-offs actually have a slighty longer body (approx 11mm) than the 6-32 male/female ones. So they're also unsuitable and clearly demonstrate that even these two most commonly sold types are not interchangeable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_case_screws#Motherboard_standoff

In short: do make 100% sure you buy the correct height ones for the specific case if you don't have the originals that should have come with it.

 

[Alan G]

It's not clear to me that one can 'satisfactorily' install a MoBo with out standoffs as there will be difficulty in aligning the board with the I/O shield properly. Most shorts that I've seen come from having a standoff in the wrong place where there is no mounting hole on the board and the standoff hits a contact point on the back of the board.

In any case we don't have enough information as others have noted. Need both the type of case and form factor of the MoBo to offer any further advice.

 

[desura]

The reason I didn't use the mounts was because they weren't needed. My case had raised mounts built-in.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to do. I'm guessing that...maybe dust gets in the back and causes a connection somehow?

Am considering a new case right now.

thanks for replies everyone.

 

[crashtech]

Try hooking everything up outside of the case. Place the mobo on an insulated surface, of course. If you need to raise it up to clear the tabs for the addon cards, simply place the mobo on a short pile of magazines or the like. I will usually place the mobo upon the thin foam that it came packed with, then hook everything up and see if it works.

For me, this is standard procedure. I will even install the OS and do a bit of functional/stress testing in this configuration. I believe in the long run it saves time, and can reveal problems with the case and/or its airflow if things change once it's all installed in the box.

 

[desura]

Try hooking everything up outside of the case. Place the mobo on an insulated surface, of course. If you need to raise it up to clear the tabs for the addon cards, simply place the mobo on a short pile of magazines or the like. I will usually place the mobo upon the thin foam that it came packed with, then hook everything up and see if it works.

For me, this is standard procedure. I will even install the OS and do a bit of functional/stress testing in this configuration. I believe in the long run it saves time, and can reveal problems with the case and/or its airflow if things change once it's all installed in the box.

yikes.

I might try that tonight. a night spent troubleshooting is a night wasted...

One more thing...

see the little dots around the screw? Are those supposed to be contacted? Is there some sort of circuit that is supposed to form with those metal contact points near the screw holes?

 

[crashtech]

Don't worry about that. A flanged screw might in theory be slightly better from load distribution standpoint, and also in theory the more grounding the better from a signal purity and RF standpoint, but I've never seen any issue arise from the lack of either. Short answer is, it doesn't matter

 

[desura]

Don't worry about that. A flanged screw might in theory be slightly better from load distribution standpoint, and also in theory the more grounding the better from a signal purity and RF standpoint, but I've never seen any issue arise from the lack of either. Short answer is, it doesn't matter

Then what could be causing my problems?

To reiterate: the computer will sometimes be completely dead. For weeks/months at a time.

Then at times it will work A-Okay. Not a hint of instability even after hours of gaming at full load.

 

[crashtech]

I did a more careful re-read, and I have a question: When your PC is exhibiting this "dead" behavior, have you tried manually jumping the power switch header pins on the mobo with, say, a small screwdriver?

 

[desura]

I did a more careful re-read, and I have a question: When your PC is exhibiting this "dead" behavior, have you tried manually jumping the power switch header pins on the mobo with, say, a small screwdriver?

Uh, never heard of doing that. I'll look it up.

 

[crashtech]

Look it up? The power switch on your case momentarily shorts the pins to which it is connected, which causes the green "power good" on the ATX connector to be grounded, which activates the PSU. It's the way you turn on a PC when it is out of the case... simple stuff.

What we are doing by this is simply ruling out a bad power switch.

 

[desura]

Look it up? The power switch on your case momentarily shorts the pins to which it is connected, which causes the green "power good" on the ATX connector to be grounded, which activates the PSU. It's the way you turn on a PC when it is out of the case... simple stuff.

What we are doing by this is simply ruling out a bad power switch.

Well, the computer is up and running again.

I vacuumed the dust from the case and reinserted everything. I did decide to flip the power switch led switch speaker pin reset pin, etc. Before. Letting was facing down. Now up.