Is Obama really a bad president?

[PokerGuy]

This administration can be summed up in one word: FAIL.

 

[IBMer]

So, if I understand you correctly, he's got your vote because you're afraid the right will rule the nation based on religious ideology? Well OK then.

I find it extremely interesting, those that fear the religious base the nation was founded on who fully embrace the Islamic faith. Are you one of those or are you scared of religious principles altogether?

I've got to get my day started but here's a link for all to read. I found it interesting.

Obama versus the Democrats

Unfortunately people like you consider the nation founded on a religion and instead of remembering one of the biggest reason why people came over to the colonies to begin with. Freedom from religious rule also includes freedom Islam... That was also just one of the reasons I mentioned. I also think that simply lowering corporate taxes and taxes on the rich and removing regulation will not improve the economy, which is the only plan I have heard from the republican candidates so far.

 

[Anarchist420]

Yes, he's an awful president although not as bad as Romney would be.

Last President that wasn't awful was Coolidge. Last President that was actually good was Harding.

Dr. Paul 2012!

 

[soulcougher73]

Id rate him average. C i suppose. Nothing special but nothing damaging either. Got a few things accomplished that Bush didnt. But had dropped the ball on a few things as well.

 

[zsdersw]

So, if I understand you correctly, he's got your vote because you're afraid the right will rule the nation based on religious ideology? Well OK then.

I find it extremely interesting, those that fear the religious base the nation was founded on who fully embrace the Islamic faith. Are you one of those or are you scared of religious principles altogether?

I've got to get my day started but here's a link for all to read. I found it interesting.

The bolded part is Santorum in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, our choices are between one party and its incumbent president who reward one set of constituents at the expense of everyone else... and the other party and its cavalcade of religious nutcases who reward a different set of constituents at the expense of everyone else.

The only real difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they reward; they both punish everyone else who isn't a mooching lazy-ass socialist or a legislate-the-Bible retarded social conservative, respectively.

The government, at any level, has no business doing the following:

- Taxing working people and businesses more to pay for others' laziness or irresponsible choices
- Passing laws to curb vices deemed sinful by the Bible or to cure social problems believed to be caused by sin

But if you eliminate those two things and other highly similar initiatives, you wouldn't have the Democratic and Republican parties. Unfortunately, that won't happen until things get much, much worse.

 

[nageov3t]

average?

I don't think he's been a terrible president or anything, but I'd be surprised if the next generation knew him for anything other than being the first mixed-race President.

 

[soulcougher73]

So, if I understand you correctly, he's got your vote because you're afraid the right will rule the nation based on religious ideology? Well OK then.

I find it extremely interesting, those that fear the religious base the nation was founded on who fully embrace the Islamic faith. Are you one of those or are you scared of religious principles altogether?

I've got to get my day started but here's a link for all to read. I found it interesting.

Obama versus the Democrats

The religious right would love to rule this country with religious ideology if they were allowed to. You do remember why they fled Europe to begin with dont you? We were nto founded on religion. Just the notion that you had freedom of/from religion. That you could have faith in whatever it is you wanted to without fear of being persecuted. But they also knew that religion and politics are 2 seperate issues that need to be seperated from each other or they would just end up like the place they fled from originally.

"Seperation of church and state" was coined for a reason. Because they believed in it. And so do most Americans. Your faith is your own business and needs to stay to yourself. Not imposed on others outside of your place of worshiop.

 

[dank69]

The bolded part is Santorum in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, our choices are between one party and its incumbent president who reward one set of constituents at the expense of everyone else... and the other party and its cavalcade of religious nutcases who reward a different set of constituents at the expense of everyone else.

The only real difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they reward; they both punish everyone else who isn't a mooching lazy-ass socialist or a legislate-the-Bible retarded social conservative, respectively.

The government, at any level, has no business doing the following:

- Taxing working people and businesses more to pay for others' laziness or irresponsible choices
- Passing laws to curb vices deemed sinful by the Bible or to cure social problems believed to be caused by sin

But if you eliminate those two things and other highly similar initiatives, you wouldn't have the Democratic and Republican parties. Unfortunately, that won't happen until things get much, much worse.

You know, remaining hostile to both sides doesn't necessarily prevent you from being a shill yourself. Especially when you criticize a side for something you have been told they do when in actuality they have done no such thing.

Take for example your claim here that Democrats 'punish everyone else who isn't a mooching lazy-ass socialist' and '[tax] working people and businesses more to pay for others' laziness or irresponsible choices.' Since this thread is about Obama, lets look at how Obama has increased taxes and increased welfare, shall we? Can you show me when he has done either? I am unaware of him doing either of these things.

However, I can think of one example where he does the exact opposite of what you are claiming. The new healthcare law effectively taxes people who would otherwise make an irresponsible choice, which in turn will help prevent working people and businesses from having to pay for their irresponsible choice.

 

[werepossum]

I give Obama a C+ to B- No one is prepared for the presidency when they assume office. maybe some people are more prepared.

However a lot of it also depends on how well you can get along with the legislature as well.

I've seen President Obama try to compromise only to get his open hand slapped away. He even put Social Security and Medicare reform on the table... Those are considered sacred cows by the left FFS. Any congress in the 80s or 90s would have jumped on that immediately.

I think one reason he falls short is that if he really espoused the the policies that could shore up this country Randbots would immediately denounce him as a combination of Marx/Stalin/Hitler and nothing would get done at all.

That's not to say that he didn't make mistakes he did.

The President knows this and in any case he would be considered a moderate republican back in the 50's 60's and 70's

Obamacare is THE largest federal power grab since FDR. At no point in the 50s, 60s or 70s would he have been considered a moderate Republican.

The bolded part is Santorum in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, our choices are between one party and its incumbent president who reward one set of constituents at the expense of everyone else... and the other party and its cavalcade of religious nutcases who reward a different set of constituents at the expense of everyone else.

The only real difference between Democrats and Republicans is who they reward; they both punish everyone else who isn't a mooching lazy-ass socialist or a legislate-the-Bible retarded social conservative, respectively.

The government, at any level, has no business doing the following:

- Taxing working people and businesses more to pay for others' laziness or irresponsible choices
- Passing laws to curb vices deemed sinful by the Bible or to cure social problems believed to be caused by sin

But if you eliminate those two things and other highly similar initiatives, you wouldn't have the Democratic and Republican parties. Unfortunately, that won't happen until things get much, much worse.

Agreed. But in a two party system, each party must win the moderate and largely apolitical middle to gain power. Therefore the two parties must be more similar than not to contest for power. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, since otherwise our society's laws would swing wildly back and forth.

 

[Phokus]

Obamacare is THE largest federal power grab since FDR. At no point in the 50s, 60s or 70s would he have been considered a moderate Republican.

You do realize that Obamacare is basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's though, right? It's a right of center program. Only reason why Republicans hate it is because it was Obama was the one who implemented it.

 

[werepossum]

You do realize that Obamacare is basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's though, right? It's a right of center program. Only reason why Republicans hate it is because it was Obama was the one who implemented it.

Obamacare has SOME provisions put forth by SOME Republicans as a possible alternative to Hilarycare, that sainted proggie bill that would have sent people to prison for daring to spend their own money on their own health care. That some if not all Republicans think Obamacare is better than jailing people who refuse to suffer and/or die when the government thinks they should hardly makes it "basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's." Asking that you be shot in the foot when you're about to be shot in the head is NOT stating that you want to be shot in the foot, it's stating that you do not want to be shot in the head.

That said, I would have zero problems with Obamacare were it adopted by a state, much like Romneycare in Massachusetts.

 

[nageov3t]

You do realize that Obamacare is basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's though, right? It's a right of center program. Only reason why Republicans hate it is because it was Obama was the one who implemented it.

at the same time... if Democrats were opposed to the Republican solution, why is it suddenly the best thing since sliced bread when Obama does it?

some ideas are bad regardless of which party proposes them.

 

[xBiffx]

You do realize that Obamacare is basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's though, right? It's a right of center program. Only reason why Republicans hate it is because it was Obama was the one who implemented it.

You do realize that you are just a shill and haven't a clue what you are talking about. Obamacare goes well beyond healthcare and is far from any previous proposal. It fixes nothing with the healthcare system and while fixing nothing, gives the federal government overreaching power over far more than healthcare. The amount of money it costs vs. what it fixes, I mean breaks is amazing. It is nothing more than a backdoor to all kinds of power grabs. Why is the IRS mentioned so many times in a healthcare bill. Oh yeah because without the IRS how else can you rob the people blind whilst under the guise of helping them. Please, republicans don't support this for much more significant reasons than who implemented it. How's your back doing carrying all that water?

This piece of legislation alone makes this President a failure. Pile on the other mistakes, lies, and wanton disregard for the Constitution and this President will be nothing more than a statistic for the school history book. The fist black, oh wait, part black president. He will be remembered for nothing positive he did for this country.

 

[Phokus]

You do realize that you are just a shill and haven't a clue what you are talking about. Obamacare goes well beyond healthcare and is far from any previous proposal. It fixes nothing with the healthcare system and while fixing nothing, gives the federal government overreaching power over far more than healthcare. The amount of money it costs vs. what it fixes, I mean breaks is amazing. It is nothing more than a backdoor to all kinds of power grabs. Why is the IRS mentioned so many times in a healthcare bill. Oh yeah because without the IRS how else can you rob the people blind whilst under the guise of helping them. Please, republicans don't support this for much more significant reasons than who implemented it. How's your back doing carrying all that water?

This piece of legislation alone makes this President a failure. Pile on the other mistakes, lies, and wanton disregard for the Constitution and this President will be nothing more than a statistic for the school history book. The fist black, oh wait, part black president. He will be remembered for nothing more, at least nothing remotely resembling a positive for this country.

Obamacare has SOME provisions put forth by SOME Republicans as a possible alternative to Hilarycare, that sainted proggie bill that would have sent people to prison for daring to spend their own money on their own health care. That some if not all Republicans think Obamacare is better than jailing people who refuse to suffer and/or die when the government thinks they should hardly makes it "basically what the Republicans (and the Heritage foundation) proposed in the 90's." Asking that you be shot in the foot when you're about to be shot in the head is NOT stating that you want to be shot in the foot, it's stating that you do not want to be shot in the head.

That said, I would have zero problems with Obamacare were it adopted by a state, much like Romneycare in Massachusetts.

You guys don't know what you're talking about. That 'individual mandate' that you guys hate so much came from the Heritage foundation. MOST of Obamacare is basically what the GOP suggested.

 

[dank69]

at the same time... if Democrats were opposed to the Republican solution, why is it suddenly the best thing since sliced bread when Obama does it?

some ideas are bad regardless of which party proposes them.

Which part is bad? The part where it forces people to pay for their own health insurance instead of leeching off of you and me when they get sick? That should line up squarely with your conservative ideology.

If however you oppose it because it attempts to limit the fleecing the insurers are giving this country by placing a ceiling on the amount of profit they can extract, well then I can understand how that conflicts with your conservative ideology. Just know, that part of your ideology is dying a slow consistent death and all the bitching and moaning in the world can't stop it.

 

[nageov3t]

Which part is bad? The part where it forces people to pay for their own health insurance instead of leeching off of you and me when they get sick? That should line up squarely with your conservative ideology.

If however you oppose it because it attempts to limit the fleecing the insurers are giving this country by placing a ceiling on the amount of profit they can extract, well then I can understand how that conflicts with your conservative ideology. Just know, that part of your ideology is dying a slow consistent death and all the bitching and moaning in the world can't stop it.

I'm not a conservative.

I think the mandate is a bad idea because it basically gives Congress the power to require Americans to buy whatever Congress demands.

why have an auto bailout when you can simply impose a fine on anyone who doesn't buy an American car?

I was/am in favor of the public option.

 

[xBiffx]

You guys don't know what you're talking about. That 'individual mandate' that you guys hate so much came from the Heritage foundation. MOST of Obamacare is basically what the GOP suggested.

You wish.

 

[Phokus]

You wish.

The idea of an individual mandate was championed by the Heritage foundation back in 1989... several years before the Clintons tried pushing Hillary care (in '93):

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/..._affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf

You conservatives can can have your own opinions, but you can't fabricate your own facts

 

[dank69]

I'm not a conservative.

I think the mandate is a bad idea because it basically gives Congress the power to require Americans to buy whatever Congress demands.

why have an auto bailout when you can simply impose a fine on anyone who doesn't buy an American car?

I was/am in favor of the public option.

Because when many people choose not to buy a car it doesn't have the potential to impact the federal budget?

Also, when I said conservative, I meant fiscal conservative. You are a fiscal conservative, right?

 

[tpin]

I don't think so but he is paying the price of past mistakes done by others.ex.Greenspan and economy in his time(not lowering rates on time).

 

[xBiffx]

The idea of an individual mandate was championed by the Heritage foundation back in 1989... several years before the Clintons tried pushing Hillary care (in '93):

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/..._affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf

You conservatives can can have your own opinions, but you can't fabricate your own facts

Keep tooting that horn. Perhaps you missed the part where I give a shit what you think. You seem to think that Republicans hate only the individual mandate. Guess you missed the rest of my post and werepossum's. It's not the individual mandate, at least it wouldn't be at a state level. Yes it'ss a problem at the federal level since it is not a Constitutional assigned power but I listed a hell of a lot more than that as problems with Obamacare. The reason why republicans didn't go forward before is because they recognized the Constitutional minefield implementing this at a federal level. That at it was not politically expedient at the time. But go on thinking you've got the other side pinned down. So because they came up with the idea but didn't go through with it, that excuses the current abuses we have to put up with now with this bill? Because it was originally not Obama's idea anyways, so why not go along with it. Got news, if a republican president had done THE EXACT SAME THING, you would still have many republicans up in arms. Oh yeah, and a bunch of liberals too just because of the R and nothing more.

 

[Phokus]

Keep tooting that horn. Perhaps you missed the part where I give a shit what you think. You seem to think that Republicans hate only the individual mandate. Guess you missed the rest of my post and werepossum's. It's not the individual mandate, at least it wouldn't be at a state level. Yes it'ss a problem at the federal level since it is not a Constitutional assigned power but I listed a hell of a lot more than that as problems with Obamacare. The reason why republicans didn't go forward before is because they recognized the Constitutional minefield implementing this at a federal level. That at it was not politically expedient at the time. But go on thinking you've got the other side pinned down. So because they came up with the idea but didn't go through with it, that excuses the current abuses we have to put up with now with this bill? Because it was originally not Obama's idea anyways, so why not go along with it. Got news, if a republican president had done THE EXACT SAME THING, you would still have many republicans up in arms. Oh yeah, and a bunch of liberals too just because of the R and nothing more.

They didn't 'go through with it' because Congress couldn't agree with each other and with the President on a healthcare bill, you twit.

The individual mandate is the most contentious issue with the GOP, and the other parts of the bill are very similar to what the GOP proposed.

And if a republican president did the exact same thing, you guys would STFU and fall in line. Stop pretending otherwise.

 

[werepossum]

The idea of an individual mandate was championed by the Heritage foundation back in 1989... several years before the Clintons tried pushing Hillary care (in '93):

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/..._affordable_health_care_for_all_americans.pdf

You conservatives can can have your own opinions, but you can't fabricate your own facts

The problem I have with Obamacare is the massive power grab and empowerment of the federal government's bureaucracy, NOT the individual mandate.

The only problem I have with the mandate is it's not a fix.

PROBLEM: People can't afford insurance.
SOLUTION: We'll MAKE them buy it.

I think if we're going to have universal coverage whether at the state or federal level, we have to have a mechanism to force people to buy health insurance. However, since most people want health insurance, that's not a solution to the problem of affordability.

 

[classy]

What tax situation are you referring to?

Two in particluar. He should have stood his ground and let the Bush tax cuts expire for the wealthy. He had 59-60 votes in the senate and a house majority to push this through. He should have shut down the corporate tax breaks for big oil. Now here we are at election time and now he'll use that as a pitch to voters. These and few other things should been done first, before healthcare.

 

[xBiffx]

They didn't 'go through with it' because Congress couldn't agree with each other and with the President on a healthcare bill, you twit.

The individual mandate is the most contentious issue with the GOP, and the other parts of the bill are very similar to what the GOP proposed.

And if a republican president did the exact same thing, you guys would STFU and fall in line. Stop pretending otherwise.

Typical liberal response. Start name calling. Sorry if you can't understand the reason why congress couldn't agree with each other than they just couldn't agree with each other. Also, sorry if you think that if a republican president did this very thing it would sit well with the GOP. But we are talking alternate reality anyways. The reality here is that the only defense you have is the republicans did it first, only they didn't.

Sure seems like the most contentious issue with the GOP is the individual mandate, not.

http://www.gop.com/index.php/comms/comments/obamacare_quick_facts/