Is Obama truly the worst POTUS of all time?

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,124
136
Bush was not my hero. And Obama could've and should've kept negotiations alive considering the stakes.



Obama's failure to maintain a presence in Iraq makes him partially responsible for our present need to reinvade Iraq.

Right.

Could have should have? Lol! What should have Obama done? Threaten to invade Iraq again? Lol.

You can't be serious.
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,678
7,175
136
Worst, no. With the exception of the ridiculous Rube Goldberg Obamacare law he's not really done much of consequence except for adding a few trillion of new debt for dubious "stimulus" plans quickly and properly abandoned. His best feature was the one probably least appreciated by those who elected him - he had a George H.W. Bush type presidency with no huge crises and no real transformation which is a good thing. Like Bush Sr. he didn't really move the ball for his party's pet causes very much (or really try even). 20 years from now people will struggle to remember anything beyond one or two things they did (Gulf War in one case, Obamacare in the other).

One has to wonder whose pockets all of those trillions of stimulus $$$ eventually ended up in.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
There were negotiations to include residual troops numbering in the thousands. Obama was one side in the those negotiations. Negotiations broke down. Do you suppose Bush would've let those negotiations collapse?

I was for the invasion of Iraq (still am), just properly managed and not obviously taking away from Afghanistan, so I'm certainly not going to go on a revisionist Bush bashing campaign as is ever so popular...but this is wrong. For us to have remained there we needed to have a SoFA that was not going to see our troops subjected to Iraqi "courts" (and I "" that because their legal system over in the ME is a total joke compared to ours). The Iraqis were not going to grant that in the to be negotiated SoFA, and thus because of that, Obama was right to pull us out of there. If he'd stayed, as soon as a troop and/or contractor did something the Iraqis (or a subset of Iraqis because multiple games are played over there with the different people in charge) could "prosecute" them for, Obama and thus US would have been in the untenable position of telling the legitimate Gov of Iraq, which is supposedly backed by US and wanting to appear to function, to go F itself, or, allow our folks to be put on the sham show they'd be putting on for every injustice, both real and fake (mostly fake). Now, whether the Iraqis were really going to not allow that into the SoFA, one can always wonder if that gave both sides the out for each other to be rid of each other and was just a convenient plausible point to use to achieve that. We'll never know unless something leaks, which probably will be never, if there is even anything to leak in the first place.

The subsequent withdrawal allowed the rise of ISIS.

Obama could've prevented it.

That means Obama is partially responsible for it.

No, our withdrawal didn't lead to the rise of ISIS. Iraqi partisan politics, corruption, greed, ineptitude, and a laissez-faire type attitude to a properly running Gov led to ISIS. We spent ample time and money on the Iraqis, and they squandered that historic opportunity so they could kill each other, steal, misappropriate, etc., rather than use it to rebuild their country. BS was more important to them, and when a group with its shit together came rolling in, because they wanted to concentrate on BS rather than do what we'd been imploring them, dragging them forward, to do, they got rolled. Obama I think has handled Iraq pretty good, all things considered.

His line in the sand however, LOL, Oh Bummer!
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Well, he let Iraq collapse. We should've left troops there to keep the peace. Same as we did with S Korea.

He also made a complete fool of himself, and America by extension, with the Syrian red line rhetoric.

Yes. At the time of our withdrawal Iraq was reasonably stable. Our withdrawal allowed Maliki to exercise his power like the jackass he was, and that led to ISIS.

That's just ignorant.

It was done on a schedule, Iraq even requested it to happen.

Stop sounding clueless.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Not even close. Hate does not mean you are doing a bad job. And love does not mean you're doing a good job.


The vast majority of unbiased historians think Kennedy was the worst president.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,573
7,634
136
Worst or quite good?
How about middling.

These past two terms have been nothing but status quo.
This country needs a revolution.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,124
136
Not even close. Hate does not mean you are doing a bad job. And love does not mean you're doing a good job.


The vast majority of unbiased historians think Kennedy was the worst president.

LOL! I call bullshit!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ln-1-obama-18-kennedy-judged-most-over-rated/

http://m.aol.com/article/2015/11/26...ing-of-presidents-changed-over-time/21271185/
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,325
15,124
136
Worst or quite good?
How about middling.

These past two terms have been nothing but status quo.
This country needs a revolution.

In just curious, how many Republicans did you vote for during the last seven years?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,127
5,657
126
I almost forgot, the way Obama smothered Scalia with his pillow was just too fucking cold.



[/too soon maybe?....]
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Wow, that poll sucks.

Obama isn't great, but the really bad and/or crooked presidents like Nixon and Carter make him look good in comparison.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
Can't vote in the poll. He didn't suit me personally. I don't hate him, but I do not approve of his foreign policy. I don't think he's a great leader and he is a poor commander of our military. As a veteran, I feel he is out of touch and does not appreciate or understand their sacrifice. I feel he is more supportive of Muslims than Christians. I feel he supports the perpetrators more than he supports our law enforcement officers. He invited black lives matter to the white house, but was pretty much silent after Beyonce's anti-cop performance, then 6 officers were immediately murdered. My biggest problem with him is that he should have been someone who could unite us, but he's a racist, in my eyes, and his leadership, or lack, thereof, has helped bring us to the greatest racial division I have seen in my lifetime.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
Can't vote in the poll. He didn't suit me personally. I don't hate him, but I do not approve of his foreign policy. I don't think he's a great leader and he is a poor commander of our military. As a veteran, I feel he is out of touch and does not appreciate or understand their sacrifice. I feel he is more supportive of Muslims than Christians. I feel he supports the perpetrators more than he supports our law enforcement officers. He invited black lives matter to the white house, but was pretty much silent after Beyonce's anti-cop performance, then 6 officers were immediately murdered. My biggest problem with him is that he should have been someone who could unite us, but he's a racist, in my eyes, and his leadership, or lack, thereof, has helped bring us to the greatest racial division I have seen in my lifetime.

I would assert a President who started an war of choice based on cherry picked intel cares less about the military then one who works to get us out of war.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Can't vote in the poll. He didn't suit me personally. I don't hate him, but I do not approve of his foreign policy. I don't think he's a great leader and he is a poor commander of our military. As a veteran, I feel he is out of touch and does not appreciate or understand their sacrifice. I feel he is more supportive of Muslims than Christians. I feel he supports the perpetrators more than he supports our law enforcement officers. He invited black lives matter to the white house, but was pretty much silent after Beyonce's anti-cop performance, then 6 officers were immediately murdered. My biggest problem with him is that he should have been someone who could unite us, but he's a racist, in my eyes, and his leadership, or lack, thereof, has helped bring us to the greatest racial division I have seen in my lifetime.

He did way more for veterans than most of the past veteran presidents. I dont think "Being in touch" is all its cracked up to be. All presidents should listen to their military advisors, regardless of their service experience. Its been a LONG time since Teddy Roosevelt. Clinton tried very hard to avoid war and Bush was fine starting multiple wars.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
What exactly would you have Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) "do for" those rural blue collar types?

I'd legalize weed and have 'em out there tilling and hoeing and such growing the Government Crop which we would then disperse freely among the population. It'll be beautiful.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,788
49,455
136
He did way more for veterans than most of the past veteran presidents. I dont think "Being in touch" is all its cracked up to be. All presidents should listen to their military advisors, regardless of their service experience. Its been a LONG time since Teddy Roosevelt. Clinton tried very hard to avoid war and Bush was fine starting multiple wars.

Not even Teddy Roosevelt was Teddy Roosevelt after he suffered the inevitable consequences of war more personally. From what I read the death of his son in WW1 broke him.
 

khon

Golden Member
Jun 8, 2010
1,319
124
106
Obama has been a decent president, by every objective measure.

- Economy recovered from the great recession
- Years of continued job growth
- Fewer Americans killed by foreign enemies
- Twenty million Americans gained health care

etc.

Not the greatest by any means, but above average.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Not consequential? Getting us out of the great recession and coming out on top of every major country to boot? No big deal.
$9 trillion dollars worth (doubling the national debt).... and not too much to show for it.

Passing the biggest health care reform law ever? No one talks about transformative laws in history class!

Well he did get it passed so you have to give obama credit for that. You also have to give him credit for the resultant clusterfuck.


Killed the top terrorist in US history? He's a nobody former president Bush said so!

I did not know obama was a navy seal. So he gave the okay for the op. He also gave the okay for drone strikes that killed multitudes of innocent children. Not to mention he lost a top secret drone to Iran (hey if he shot osama, he flew the drone). He ignores Iraqi PM al-Maliki usurping the elections in Iraq which was the spark that lit ISIS. There is oh so much more.

Getting equal rights for gays? No one will remember that!

This was the judicial branch... granted obama did nominate some justices but I am too lazy to see if the new justices would have likely voted differently from their predecessors.

Getting Iran to sign a nuclear deal? That's child's play!

Iran was happy to sign the deal because they got everything that they wanted... and Iran has already ignored the conditions of the deal.

Signing on to a global climate initiative? No big deal, if this planet dies there are like a bazillion more we can go to!

And giving China (the worst polluter of all) a pass until a future president is in office.

Normalizing relations with Cuba? It's a small insignificant country, history books already don't talk about the tiny country's US relationship!

Normalizing relations with a government that assassinates the opposition.

Oh and he was the first black president, something I'm sure the history books will simply whitewash! /s

Which was perfect because every bad thing obama did could be countered by screaming racism. If you have not noticed but race relations in the country have been set back 30 years... all starting with obama's idiot cop beer summit.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Which was perfect because every bad thing obama did could be countered by screaming racism. If you have not noticed but race relations in the country have been set back 30 years... all starting with obama's idiot cop beer summit.

I'm going to ignore all the other dumb shit you posted because this one ranks supreme. Since before he was ever even the Democrat nominee, and increasing heavily once he was elected, the far right has been unabashedly racist towards him no matter what he does. He honestly has done good things for race relations himself, but the far right sees anything positive for minorities as a negative for them.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Why does Obama get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Bush years, while Reagan doesn't get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Carter years?

Reagan does get some credit, but Carter doesn't deserve as much blame as he gets. Carter inherited the inflation issues that caused the economic crisis in his term and the oil issues were a continuation of oil issues that had occurred a few years before he took office. Reagan gets credit for reappointing Volcker, a man originally appointed by Carter and the man most responsible for fixing the economic issues Reagan inherited. Unfortunately for Reagan, the amount of bad shit he did (failure to address AIDS crisis, treason in Iran Contra, Reaganomics which have caused SO, SO, SOOOOO many economic problems since) vastly trumps his few good actions. Reagan was also blessed with an opposing party that was far more willing to work with him than the clusterfuck of obstructive dipshits that the GOP has been under Obama.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
$9 trillion dollars worth (doubling the national debt).... and not too much to show for it.

Better then the prospect of 800K/month job losses. Imagine the shape of the nation with 50% unemployment
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Reagan does get some credit, but Carter doesn't deserve as much blame as he gets. Carter inherited the inflation issues that caused the economic crisis in his term and the oil issues were a continuation of oil issues that had occurred a few years before he took office. Reagan gets credit for reappointing Volcker, a man originally appointed by Carter and the man most responsible for fixing the economic issues Reagan inherited. Unfortunately for Reagan, the amount of bad shit he did (failure to address AIDS crisis, treason in Iran Contra, Reaganomics which have caused SO, SO, SOOOOO many economic problems since) vastly trumps his few good actions. Reagan was also blessed with an opposing party that was far more willing to work with him than the clusterfuck of obstructive dipshits that the GOP has been under Obama.

Every president deals with the legacy of what came before them. Bush getting us into Iraq was a clusterfuck of historic proportions, but 9/11 was the fault of the foreign policy of those that came before him. The Bush economy crashed in 2008 because it had to, the entire thing was a house of cards because everyone (not just Bush) wanted to continue the euphoric expansion of the .com bubble rather than let things cool down. Bush made terrible choices and surrounded himself with terrible people, but what recent president hasn't? Obama put Hillary "Let's Help The Middle East" Clinton in as SoS and brought Goldman Sachs in to tell him how to run the economy. And guess what, the middle east is a bigger clusterfuck than ever and the GINI index continues to favor the rich more than it did under Bush. Mission Accomplished?
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I'm going to ignore all the other dumb shit you posted because this one ranks supreme. Since before he was ever even the Democrat nominee, and increasing heavily once he was elected, the far right has been unabashedly racist towards him no matter what he does. He honestly has done good things for race relations himself, but the far right sees anything positive for minorities as a negative for them.

Yeah, because Republicans treated the Clintons sooooooooooooo much better just because they're white. Or perhaps you can just admit that the GOP would oppose most of the policies and actions of a Democratic president no matter what? If you think the Republicans changed their positions on anything because Obama was black (either exclusively or even in a tiny part) then quite frankly I think you're delusional. "Oh, I would have supported higher taxes on the rich, but since Obama is black....."
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,573
7,634
136
In just curious, how many Republicans did you vote for during the last seven years?

I voted third party in '08 and '12. I know a continuation of Bush policy when I see it. What we, today, label the "establishment". It crosses party lines because it comes from Wall Street. "Your" people and "my" people are both suckers for campaign finance.
 
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