Is Obama truly the worst POTUS of all time?

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Honestly Obama could probably rank in the top 15 Presidents of all time just for how well he did despite the single most obstructive opposition party in American history and for how well he got us out of the second worst financial crisis in the nation's history. Top 10 might be pushing it.

Though it is amusing that 3 Presidents who should absolutely be in the top 10 (maybe even top 5) worst of all time are 3 of the last 5 Republican Presidents (the previously mentioned Reagan, Nixon, and Bush 2).

Why does Obama get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Bush years, while Reagan doesn't get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Carter years?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,323
15,121
136
Why does Obama get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Bush years, while Reagan doesn't get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Carter years?

LOL! Reagan didn't get credit? What fucking reality do you live in?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,323
15,121
136
You do realize that we're talking about the interest right? That means additional expense you're incurring to borrow the money, but at some point you still have to pay the principal back. So yes, we can simply borrow even more, but that simply adds to the mountain of debt that the country will need to pay back in the future. By reducing the debt and thus reducing the interest, you're actually freeing up real money that you can use towards something else.

See Eskimospy's post, he already covered this.Q


Interesting. Do you take the same approach with global warming / climate change? We're not currently in some sort of crisis there either, but we think it's a major potential negative impact on the future.

I take the same exact approach to both, what do the facts say? History has shown us that we have had a higher Debt to GDP ratio as have and do many other countries and most of them are not in some critical debt crisis. In fact, right now a majority of countries have a lower debt to gdp radio and how are they doing compared to the US in terms of economic strength?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Btw, aren't you a climate change denier? Lol



I don't have that answer, just like nobody has the answer on when we reach that critical tipping point with the environment (if we haven't already).

While there isn't 100% consensus (not that there has ever been) but there are some in some high up places (IMF) that seem to think we are in a good spot.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/public-debt


The exploding debt problem isn't a meme, it's a fact. Not some vague notion that is debatable, it's simple undeniable fact. When you start trying to pin the blame or decide how to fix it is where it gets political.

Bullshit. When politicians can't give you a ballpark of when the debt catastrophe will happen and they can't give you solid answers of why the current debt is bad, then it's nothing but politics. Face it you've been duped, again.

In much the same way as whenever the climate change issue is discussed the "solutions" always involve more government, more regulation, more money and power to the left.

LOL! Who is this mythical "left" that is gaining power and money from an increase in regulations and an increase in subsidies to move toward a cleaner environment? As I've already shown you in this thread, the left at least has a current record of helping the average American including rural blue collar folks, I have yet to see any similar accomplishments from the right. So that's a false equivalence on your part.

And just to restate my position, which is similar to Eskimospy's, is that unlimited debt isn't good, nor is zero debt, there is a balance and we certainly haven't tipped the scales in any disastrous direction like the Republicans would have you believe.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,805
29,556
146
Why does Obama get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Bush years, while Reagan doesn't get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Carter years?

Because Reagan's disaster of a presidency gave us this financial crisis. Call it the "Reagan/Clinton World Financial shithole, 2009."
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
Not even close. The worst POTUS ever was Buchanan, followed by Grant.
Obama is not the best by any stretch of the imagination, but his administration will be remembered as remarkably scandal free.

Among historians the conversation is usually around Buchanan, this is correct.
 

dang92116

Junior Member
Dec 3, 2008
12
0
61
Wow, mostly nice conversations here! I believe everyone here could come to a compromise and fix some problems. When I read comments on Yahoo about certain things, its amazing how mean and angry people get. How do you fix problems that way?

Putting my two cents in:
Obamacare: wish they would have just taken the age limit out of Medicare. That would have covered everyone, and no one would have to make new rules for Health care. (at least that is what I have read somewhere)

Debt: I do not feel Rich being in debt. People say that the US is a rich nation. But its all financed and will have to be payed for someday. Plus when in debt you are always beholden to someone. Can't really say FU to China if they are buying a lot of our debt. Or if China decides to have a Trillion dollar US debt sale one day. I think that would crush us.
I do understand the spend more in bad times, save more in good times for the government. But that never really happens. Only time in my life time we had a surplus was with Clinton.

OK, now I have a question I have never seen an answer to. Since the Treasury has bought up a lot of our debt, and that interest is going back to the government, why can't that debt just be wiped out? I see it as giving myself a loan, paying myself the interest, and paying every month to pay back the loan.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,127
5,657
126
Took yer guns, put Whitey into FEMA Camps, converted everyone to Mooslimism, placed the USA under the control of the UN, and will soon reveal himself to be the Anti-Christ and become the head of the UN!

Overall just an average US President.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Yeah? What's the worst thing he has done and what president was that worse than?

Well, he let Iraq collapse. We should've left troops there to keep the peace. Same as we did with S Korea.

He also made a complete fool of himself, and America by extension, with the Syrian red line rhetoric.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,323
15,121
136
Took yer guns, put Whitey into FEMA Camps, converted everyone to Mooslimism, placed the USA under the control of the UN, and will soon reveal himself to be the Anti-Christ and become the head of the UN!

Overall just an average US President.

Don't forget he's been the weakest president ever while being a complete tyrant and a political mastermind.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,323
15,121
136
Well, he let Iraq collapse. We should've left troops there to keep the peace. Same as we did with S Korea.

Are you saying that this inaction lead to something worse than what he had after bush jr?

I'm pretty ignorant of Carter's presidency so don't think I'm challenging your assertion, I'm trying to understand the history behind the claim.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,585
7,825
136
Well, he let Iraq collapse. We should've left troops there to keep the peace. Same as we did with S Korea.

He also made a complete fool of himself, and America by extension, with the Syrian red line rhetoric.

If only the President-who-shan't-be-named had not signed that agreement to withdraw US troops from Iraq.

Just kidding!

History started on Jan. 20th, 2009. We all know that!
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Are you saying that this inaction lead to something worse than what he had after bush jr?

Yes. At the time of our withdrawal Iraq was reasonably stable. Our withdrawal allowed Maliki to exercise his power like the jackass he was, and that led to ISIS.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
If only the President-who-shan't-be-named had not signed that agreement to withdraw US troops from Iraq.

Just kidding!

History started on Jan. 20th, 2009. We all know that!



Obama was president in 2011. He bears some responsibility for inaction.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,585
7,825
136


Obama was president in 2011. He bears some responsibility for inaction.
By inaction, you mean Obama following the agreement signed by the President-who-shan't-be-named by withdrawing troops in 2011?

Action, inaction, it's all the same thing in upside-down, backwards conservative world.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
By inaction, you mean Obama following the agreement signed by the President-who-shan't-be-named by withdrawing troops in 2011?

Action, inaction, it's all the same thing in upside-down, backwards conservative world.

There were negotiations to include residual troops numbering in the thousands. Obama was one side in the those negotiations. Negotiations broke down. Do you suppose Bush would've let those negotiations collapse?

The subsequent withdrawal allowed the rise of ISIS.

Obama could've prevented it.

That means Obama is partially responsible for it.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,585
7,825
136
There were negotiations to include residual troops numbering in the thousands. Obama was one side in the those negotiations. Negotiations broke down. Do you suppose Bush would've let those negotiations collapse?

The subsequent withdrawal allowed the rise of ISIS.

Obama could've prevented it.

That means Obama is partially responsible for it.

Bush signed an agreement to remove all US troops by the end of 2011. Obama wanted soldiers to remain. Iraq said no.

So, unlike your hero Bush, Obama didn't invade Iraq with US soldiers illegally after being told no.

Hence, Obama's failure to reinvade Iraq illegally makes him partially responsible for Bush's destruction of the previous regime that had kept Iraq secular and terrorist-free.

Because Freedom.

And, we can never, ever forget Benghazi.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Bush signed an agreement to remove all US troops by the end of 2011. Obama wanted soldiers to remain. Iraq said no.

So, unlike your hero Bush, Obama didn't invade Iraq with US soldiers illegally after being told no.

Bush was not my hero. And Obama could've and should've kept negotiations alive considering the stakes.

Hence, Obama's failure to reinvade Iraq illegally makes him partially responsible for Bush's destruction of the previous regime that had kept Iraq secular and terrorist-free.

Obama's failure to maintain a presence in Iraq makes him partially responsible for our present need to reinvade Iraq.

Because Freedom.

And, we can never, ever forget Benghazi.

Right.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Poll sucks

Worst? not even close.

He is a really bad judge of character though, never seen such a long list of failure appointments and cabinet members.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,140
136
Why does Obama get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Bush years, while Reagan doesn't get credit for doing "OK" after the disastrous Carter years?

According to the GOP Reagan was a deity. Our financial system in 1980 was no where near the peril as in 2008. Losing 800K jobs/month was depression level
 
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