Is poverty voluntary?

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Is poverty voluntary? For the most part, no fucking way. What an inane question.

 

[rudeguy]

Is poverty voluntary? For the most part, no fucking way. What an inane question.

Then how do you explain the people who choose not to work and live in poverty?

 

[MixMasterTang]

Then how do you explain the people who choose not to work and live in poverty?

Because if they worked a minimum wage job they would still be in poverty.

 

[MagickMan]

Because if they worked a minimum wage job they would still be in poverty.

For most people, minimum wage still pays more than welfare.

 

[rudeguy]

Because if they worked a minimum wage job they would still be in poverty.

Wouldn't they also have to potential to get a promotion or learn new skills that would help them get a better paying job?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Wouldn't they also have to potential to get a promotion or learn new skills that would help them get a better paying job?

Of course, If they manage to survive their commute/travel needed to get to and from work. and if the travel doesnt cost them more than 100% of their income.

But right now, there just aren't Jobs out there.

 

[rudeguy]

Of course, If they manage to survive their commute/travel needed to get to and from work. and if the travel doesnt cost them more than 100% of their income.

But right now, there just aren't Jobs out there.

I thought we just had a "stellar" jobs report?

 

[cabri]

Of course, If they manage to survive their commute/travel needed to get to and from work. and if the travel doesnt cost them more than 100% of their income.

But right now, there just aren't Jobs out there.

I thought we just had a "stellar" jobs report?

The jobs are there; they just may not be convenient for those a minimum wage; be it $7.25 or $15

For the higher paying jobs, that demand a better skill set, there is a labor oversupply, so employers are more picky and demanding

 

[BurnItDwn]

I thought we just had a "stellar" jobs report?

Month to Month, day to day, we may be doing better now than over the last few years.

But when I say no Jobs. I mean the economy as a whole, has been in the shitter since the 70s. Median wages have been decreasing. Opportunities for economic advancement have been declining.

Unemployment goes down, but Underemployment is a major huge problem.

The American Dream is being drowned by Globalization and Technology.

 

[TheSlamma]

I thought we just had a "stellar" jobs report?

Since they think it's tied to Obama they only want to talk UE3

 

[rudeguy]

Since they think it's tied to Obama they only want to talk UE3

Yep. Other than that its how they "feel" about the job market.

When I say the job market sucks, I'm a right wing nut job. When democrats say it, they are trying to protect the little guy. When I say people chose government assistance over low paying jobs, I'm a nazi. When democrats say it, they are just looking out for the little guy.

Its so fun to watch so many people change their arguments based on how they "feel". So few people actually care what the truth is, far fewer seek it.

 

[ivwshane]

Since they think it's tied to Obama they only want to talk UE3

Yeah because that's not the metric we've been using to discuss employment since we've been tracking it!

Nice job idiot!

 

[ivwshane]

Yep. Other than that its how they "feel" about the job market.

When I say the job market sucks, I'm a right wing nut job. When democrats say it, they are trying to protect the little guy. When I say people chose government assistance over low paying jobs, I'm a nazi. When democrats say it, they are just looking out for the little guy.

Its so fun to watch so many people change their arguments based on how they "feel". So few people actually care what the truth is, far fewer seek it.

Buy a fucking mirror you troll!

 

[rudeguy]

Buy a fucking mirror you troll!

You are a serious waste of oxygen.

 

[cabri]

You are a serious waste of oxygen.

And electrons; It seems as all he can do is generate insults; nothing constructive

 

[BurnItDwn]

Rudeguy has a point.

Sometimes people are quick to judge.

 

[TheSlamma]

And electrons; It seems as all he can do is generate insults; nothing constructive

That is why the ignore function exists.

 

[BoberFett]

That is why the ignore function exists.

This forum is vastly more readable with just a handful of ignored posters. I'm sure I'm one of them, and I'm OK with that.

 

[Dessicant]

I don't believe that the "good jobs" are gone. I think that is an invention, a fantasy. There are millions and millions of good jobs for those who focus on what is needed and meet needs.

I think statements of despair proclaiming no jobs is a way for people to anesthetize themselves against the pain of their own incompetence. So, they do some job for awhile, fall into a boring routine, and expect that job, or a close equivalent, to always exist so that they will not have to maintain competence through learning and focusing on what the ever-changing needs are in a dynamic and transformative economy.

So yes, people choose poverty. By expecting a job to continue and failing to prepare for alternatives and failing to stay cutting edge with respect to skills and techniques.

Another way people choose poverty is through poor character. Drinking alcohol to excess, smoking dope, serial sex, having kids out of wedlock or too early in life before lots of money is made, running up credit cards, gambling, spending money on things you cannot afford, not saving 10-20% of every paycheck to cover the possibility of illness, disability, relocation, or extended unemployment. All of these activities, and many others like them, may introduce a precarious situation where any negative occurrence sends one over an edge, spiraling into poverty and negativity. Then all of a sudden you remark on your bad luck and the fact that others are "privileged". But the truth is you are of poor character and consciously choose activities that lead directly to poverty and are avoided by using a modicum of reason and common sense.

So we see that for most people, poverty is most absolutely a choice.

Yes there is the blind retard who was born into hard luck, but that is the rare exception. For the vast majority of people, poverty is a chosen state and is 100% their own fault.

So you cheat on your wife and 2 kids, she finds out, throws you out, divorces you, and takes 1/2 of your life. And now you are condemned to poverty for decades. Did you choose poverty or were you a cosmic victim? The answer is clear, you invited poverty to bed with you, had sex with it, and now must live with it until your kids are 30. You chose it. It's on you.

The are 8 million other stories just like this in the Naked City, and 80 million close variants. And in every case, poverty was chosen.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol! People are poor because they choose to stay at their low paying job and never better themselves with all the extra money they have instead they buy iPhones.

School may be free. Food may be free. Your rent may even be lower than market value! However there are a lot of things that aren't free or cost less if you are poor and there is one thing no one, rich or poor, can buy more of...time. Finding time to work and pay for the bare minimum is hard enough with a low paying wage, let alone trying to add education to the mix to better yourself to get a better job. Can it be done? Sure, people do it all the time. Make one mistake though and you can forget it!

You righties haven't a clue about reality other than your own lives. Your brains and your world are so small that you can't even fathom people struggling in this country without it being a choice. Maybe some day you'll have a little bad luck, of course, then, you'll be right their with your hand out telling us how your situation is different.

Just some food for thought to counter your obviously regurgitated right wing talking points.

Just because you’re receiving means-tested benefits doesn’t mean you’re not working. According to 2012 Census Bureau data, roughly 23 percent of households with at least one working adult received means-tested benefits.

For Medicaid, 28 percent of recipients between the ages of 18 and 64, worked full time, according to the Census Bureau. (Another 15 percent of recipients in that age group worked part time.)

Other means-tested benefits show considerable overlap with the population of working adults. Roughly 60 percent of food stamp recipients who were of working age and weren’t disabled were employed while receiving benefits, according to a Census Bureau sample calculated by the liberal Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.

This matters because working recipients of means-tested benefits would be counted on both sides of the comparison, casting doubt on the notion that there’s a strict divide between people who work and people who are on welfare.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ere-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/

 

[glenn1]

Pretty good and even-handed article on the subject:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/12/anti-poverty-programmes

 

[Mai72]

We still live in the greatest nation on earth. Why is it that with all the opportunities that are afforded us most people still claim victim? Why is it that an immigrant can still come from overseas and make a decent living for themselves?

Poverty isn't voluntary. Still, I'm not blind to the disadvantages people have when they are born into a crappy family and environment. I'm not blind to the fact that someone with the financial means and support is going to have a much easier time thriving in our society.

IMO, It's our choices that determine our future. Not our environment.

 

[Enigmoid]

We still live in the greatest nation on earth. Why is it that with all the opportunities that are afforded us most people still claim victim? Why is it that an immigrant can still come from overseas and make a decent living for themselves?

Poverty isn't voluntary. Still, I'm not blind to the disadvantages people have when they are born into a crappy family and environment. I'm not blind to the fact that someone with the financial means and support is going to have a much easier time thriving in our society.

IMO, It's our choices that determine our future. Not our environment.

This.

I would like to add one point though. Often it is very hard to drag yourself out of low paying jobs and 'poverty'. However, it is very possible to get your kids out through hard work and dedication, both on the part of the children and the parents. Thats why so many immigrants from Asis/India end up in the USA working poor low paying jobs but their kids study hard and up with well paying jobs. Its cultural as well.

 

[Mai72]

This.

I would like to add one point though. Often it is very hard to drag yourself out of low paying jobs and 'poverty'. However, it is very possible to get your kids out through hard work and dedication, both on the part of the children and the parents. Thats why so many immigrants from Asis/India end up in the USA working poor low paying jobs but their kids study hard and up with well paying jobs. Its cultural as well.

Well said.

Those Indians and other Asians haven't been on welfare for decades either. They had a strong work ethic back home and they bring that attitude with them to America. It's the same with the Mexicans who have come to America legally and even illegally. There are many who will work 16 hour days without a thought. Many are determined to better themselves.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Pretty good and even-handed article on the subject:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/12/anti-poverty-programmes

Thanks for the link