Is poverty voluntary?

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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
To me, having your family be malnourished means you can't provide for your family, correct? Within the context of your post, not being able to provide for your family would reasonably be interpreted as being poor, no?

Sub-Saharan Africa has one of the highest rates of people unable to provide for their family in the world. Therefore, it is one of the poorest places in the world.

I seriously can't believe this even has to be argued.

 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
I'm assuming this is the time of day when all the Sith lords are posting and only understand things in terms of absolutes.

:awe:.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
So you believe there was a nice middle class sector with low poverty in the 1800's or are you saying we can't know because there aren't any statistic (even though no one in this thread has tried to pull up that data)?

IMO, it is a good question but neither of you guys have brought any data to the table. I'll sit back and wait for you guys to do the leg work because I'm actually interested in the question :biggrin:

Wealth inequality now is much worse thanks to technology further distancing people from each other.

With all their servants and shit as depicted in Dowton Abbey current wealth inequality surpasses that by leaps and bounds. You still had to interact directly with those below you and there were limits to what they were willing to tolerate.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
As I understand it, Tuscans have more Neanderthal DNA than any other group tested and that East Asians may have slightly more than Europeans. Note that therefore all Europeans can't all be Tuscans.

Oh great and now a phrenologist joins the fray. The university of Pheonix grad in sociology and phrenology. You can tell how far below the poverty line they are by the lumps on their head.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I think some of poverty is a choice, even if it isn't entirely clear you're making it at the time. I would say it is an accumulation of choices that doom you into poverty along with a lack of family structure to help influence these decisions.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
I think some of poverty is a choice, even if it isn't entirely clear you're making it at the time. I would say it is an accumulation of choices that doom you into poverty along with a lack of family structure to help influence these decisions.

Exactly. Which is why us right wing nut jobs fight so hard to keep government from replacing family.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
As I understand it, Tuscans have more Neanderthal DNA than any other group tested and that East Asians may have slightly more than Europeans. Note that therefore all Europeans can't all be Tuscans.

Have not read much on the subject for like 2 years but from what I understand Italy is very diverse compared to many other European countries.

Many populations have yet to go through any sufficient testing like the Ainu, various Northeastern European minorities, many African populations, various populations from India, and even more that all that shit.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Have not read much on the subject for like 2 years but from what I understand Italy is very diverse compared to many other European countries.

Many populations have yet to go through any sufficient testing like the Ainu, various Northeastern European minorities, many African populations, various populations from India, and even more that all that shit.

wat

This stuff is nonsense.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
No shit?

You gonna be ok man?

I'm pretty stressed, but have a few people I'll be calling soon, just kicking back and trying to relax atm.

If you don't make 6 figures you can't be a member here.

Jokes aside sorry man, good luck on finding a new, better job soon.

Thanks, the wife makes as much as I did, and we're not bad off.

that sucks.

hope you'll be ok.


Just a real PITA again and didn't really expect that one.
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
I'm pretty stressed, but have a few people calling soon, just kicking back and trying to relax atm.

The first thing to do is go out. Eat a good dinner or have a few drinks or watch a movie...just get out of the house. Let it settle in while you are doing something you like.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I'm sure there are Facebook haters here, so I'll repost the entire thing:

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1001750199835123:0
Hey Mike

Your constant harping on “work ethic” is growing tiresome. Just because someone’s poor doesn’t mean they’re lazy. The unemployed want to work! And many of those who can’t find work today, didn’t have the benefit of growing up with parents like yours. How can you expect someone with no role model to qualify for one of your scholarships or sign your silly “Sweat Pledge?” Rather than accusing people of not having a work-ethic, why not drop the right-wing propaganda and help them develop one?

Craig P.

Hi Craig, and Happy Sunday!

I’m afraid you’ve overestimated the reach of my foundation, as well as my ability to motivate people I’ve never met. For the record, I don’t believe all poor people are lazy, any more than I believe all rich people are greedy. But I can understand why so many do.

Everyday on the news, liberal pundits and politicians portray the wealthy as greedy, while conservative pundits and politicians portray the poor as lazy. Democrats have become so good at denouncing greed, Republicans now defend it. And Republicans are so good at condemning laziness, Democrats are now denying it even exists. It's a never ending dance that gets more contorted by the day.

A few weeks ago in Georgetown, President Obama accused Fox News of “perpetuating a false narrative” by consistently calling poor people “lazy.” Fox News denied the President’s accusation, claiming to have only criticized policies, not people. Unfortunately for Fox, The Daily Show has apparently gained access to the Internet, and after a ten-second google-search and a few minutes in the edit bay, John Stewart was on the air with a devastating montage of Fox personnel referring to the unemployed as “sponges,” “leeches,” “freeloaders,” and “mooches.”

Over the next few days, the echo chamber got very noisy. The Left howled about the bias at Fox and condemned the one-percent, while the Right shrieked about the bias at MSNBC and bemoaned the growing entitlement state. But through all the howling and shrieking, no one said a word about the millions of jobs that American companies are struggling to fill right now. No one talked the fact that most of those jobs don’t require an expensive four-year degree. And no one mentioned the 1.2 trillion dollars of outstanding student loans, or the madness of lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back, educating them for jobs that no longer exist.

I started mikeroweWORKS to talk about these issues, and shine a light on a few million good jobs that no one seems excited about. But mostly, I wanted to remind people that real opportunity still exists for those individuals who are willing to work hard, learn a skill, and make a persuasive case for themselves. Sadly, you see my efforts as “right wing propaganda.” But why? Are our differences really political? Or is it something deeper? Something philosophical?

You wrote that, “people want to work.” In my travels, I’ve met a lot of hard-working individuals, and I’ve been singing their praises for the last 12 years. But I’ve seen nothing that would lead me to agree with your generalization. From what I’ve seen of the species, and what I know of myself, most people - given the choice - would prefer NOT to work. In fact, on Dirty Jobs, I saw Help Wanted signs in every state, even at the height of the recession. Is it possible you see the existence of so many unfilled jobs as a challenge to your basic understanding of what makes people tick?

Last week at a policy conference in Mackinac, I talked to several hiring managers from a few of the largest companies in Michigan. They all told me the same thing - the biggest under reported challenge in finding good help, (aside from the inability to “piss clean,&#8221 is an overwhelming lack of “soft skills.” That’s a polite way of saying that many applicants don’t tuck their shirts in, or pull their pants up, or look you in the eye, or say things like “please” and “thank you.” This is not a Michigan problem - this is a national crisis. We’re churning out a generation of poorly educated people with no skill, no ambition, no guidance, and no realistic expectations of what it means to go to work.

These are the people you’re talking about Craig, and their number grows everyday. I understand you would like me to help them, but how? I’m not a mentor, and my foundation doesn’t do interventions. Do you really want me to stop rewarding individual work ethic, just because I don’t have the resources to assist those who don’t have any? If I’m unable to help everyone, do you really want me to help no one?

My goals are modest, and they’ll remain that way. I don’t focus on groups. I focus on individuals who are eager to do whatever it takes to get started. People willing to retool, retrain, and relocate. That doesn’t mean I have no empathy for those less motivated. It just means I’m more inclined to subsidize the cost of training for those who are. That shouldn’t be a partisan position, but if it is, I guess I’ll just have to live with it.

Mike

PS. The Sweat Pledge wasn’t supposed to be partisan either, but it’s probably annoyed as many people as its inspired. I still sell them for $12, and the money still goes to mikeroweWORKS. You can get one here, even if you’re not applying for a scholarship.

http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/poster/

PPS. If you’d like Craig, I’ll autograph one for you!
 
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