Is religion going away?

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Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,716
0
0
"Don't be ridiculous. the current situation in Northern Ireland is more related to a misplaced kind of nationalism than religion."

What's ridiculous exactly? It is a religious issue, whether you consider it to be misplaced nationalism has no bearing.
 

docmanhattan

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2001
1,332
0
0


<<

<< Science and logic [ as much a religion as anything else, IMHO ] (..) >>


Science and logic are not even closely related to religious ideologies. Neither is an ideology.
>>



I would beg to differ. The amount of faith that people place in science and logic can defintely be classified as religious and while they may protest that, it doesn't change the fact that if you live your life according to a credos of science and logic that is can be seen as a religion. One of the definitions of religion is:


<< a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices >>


and following the word religious


<< relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity >>




 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
8,880
0
0


<<

<<

<< Science and logic [ as much a religion as anything else, IMHO ] (..) >>


Science and logic are not even closely related to religious ideologies. Neither is an ideology.
>>



I would beg to differ. The amount of faith that people place in science and logic can defintely be classified as religious and while they may protest that, it doesn't change the fact that if you live your life according to a credos of science and logic that is can be seen as a religion. One of the definitions of religion is:


<< a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices >>


and following the word religious


<< relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity >>

>>

Semantics aside, do you truly see science as an ideology? If so, you're overlooking the fact that science is a mere tool, which can be used in a variety of ways. Even religions (ab)use it to 'prove' that they're right..

Sure, everyone has faith, otherwise one should see no reason to live. There is, however, a moment when faith turns into blind faith, the point where evidence ceases to exist and/or count and one completely believes in something for which no evidence exists. Blind faith, or superstition.
 

docmanhattan

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2001
1,332
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0


<< Semantics aside, do you truly see science as an ideology? If so, you're overlooking the fact that science is a mere tool, which can be used in a variety of ways. Even religions (ab)use it to 'prove' that they're right..

Sure, everyone has faith, otherwise one should see no reason to live. There is, however, a moment when faith turns into blind faith, the point where evidence ceases to exist and/or count and one completely believes in something for which no evidence exists. Blind faith, or superstition.
>>



I, personally, see science as a way to understand the physical world. But what I'm proposing is that blind faith in science is just as possible as well as prevalent as blind faith in organised religion. And taking that further, the reason it's so mainstream [for lack of a better word] to wield the hammer of science [+5 to physical attacks ] as an ideology is that by it's very nature is secular.

Again, going off on a tangent. ( i'm neffing badly... ) The concept of evidence is rather shaky and I'm not saying that all evidence is wrong, BUT most evidence is created using the Hammer of Science [ -10% all stats for Engligh Crusaders ] so to say that some thing is impossible because it cannot be proven with evidence is not entirely valid because the Hammer [ -10 to mystical defense ] does not account for what it cannot quantify. It's like not acknowlegding something, even though it's there, because you don't know how to classify it. It's called "unexplainable"

For me, if you haven't guessed, I believe in God, but it doesn't mean that I don't see the Hammer and a useful tool for stumbling through this world. I just don't take it as the final word for what is real. I leave that to God.

Who knows, maybe that's the difference: what you see as the final word on what's real and what's not.

interesting nonetheless.

 

Grminalac

Golden Member
Aug 25, 2000
1,149
1
0
What a load of crap Docmanhattan. "Science" is only science if based upon the scientific method. Secondly, nothing is metaphysic. If you have a soul it is quantifiable, just because we do not have the ability to measure it currently does not mean it transcends the laws of physics.
 

docmanhattan

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2001
1,332
0
0


<< What a load of crap Docmanhattan. "Science" is only science if based upon the scientific method. Secondly, nothing is metaphysic. If you have a soul it is quantifiable, just because we do not have the ability to measure it currently does not mean it transcends the laws of physics. >>



And this is my point regarding "blind faith" in science or as stated the scientific method, which is really just a check list for stating a hypothesis and testing it until you are satisfied that it is a sound theory. If you wield science as an ideology, then you can't have the concept of unexplainable. Instead the unexplainable would have to not exist.

I may be full of crap OR some people may hang on to the Hammer of Science [ +40 overclocking ] to tightly.

 

Grminalac

Golden Member
Aug 25, 2000
1,149
1
0
I'm still figuring out what point you are trying to convey. I am merely stating that everything can be broken down mathematically into velocity, mass and length. We might not be able to do this, or even understand how it is done. Thus making it "unexplainable" to us, but that does not invoke the object with mystic or godlike properties. Much akin to the supernatural qualities once given to the seas and heavenly bodies by ancient men who dubbed them as gods and spirits because they couldn't explain them.
I'm not saying there isn't a god. I'm just saying if there is; it is quantifiable.
 

docmanhattan

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2001
1,332
0
0


<< I'm not saying there isn't a god. I'm just saying if there is; it is quantifiable. >>



I think that is the fundamental difference between our POV's. I don't believe God is quantifiable. So the short answer to what my point is that people who take science overzealously could not admit to a God unless they can measue Him, which will never happen, so they'll never believe in God.

And how does this relate to religion going away, you ask? well...

Actually, it only does so tangentially ( at best..), in that I think organised religion will decrease, but that the number of Christians will increase, with people finding other churches to go to or to plant their own church. A lot of believers are tired of the business model that the Catholic Church has evolved into, I myself being one of them. Id'oh. 'll stop before I get on my soapbox....

[putting the soapbox away...]
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"Is religion going away?"

I can't believe this topic hasn't been locked or "gone away"! :Q

The world can't be rid of religion soon enough, IMO. I'm certain God exists, but organized religion is the pits! :frown:
 

StandardCell

Senior member
Sep 2, 2001
312
0
0


<< I can't believe this topic hasn't been locked or "gone away"! :Q >>



Believe it. This is "The religious debate forum formerly known as ATOT". :frown:
 

docmanhattan

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2001
1,332
0
0


<<

<< I can't believe this topic hasn't been locked or "gone away"! :Q >>



Believe it. This is "The religious debate forum formerly known as ATOT". :frown:
>>



Yeah, people should post more pizza topping threads!
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"Believe it. This is "The religious debate forum formerly known as ATOT".

I still don't believe it, and you obviously don't get it. Take a look at all the locked topics below. See how many are God or religion based? That doesn't even include the ones that were completely purged!

We've got umpteen freaken automobile topics, abortion topics, Counterstrike, AMD VS the world, political topics out the ass, but religion topics are arbitrarily blown away left and right. I can't follow the logic behind it. Most of the political topics are flame bait, but they remain.

The General Non-Hardware Forum was started at the request of people trying to shove religion topics off the hardware forum page. It's only right that it proliferate... at least as much as the damn automobile topics!
 

KokomoGST

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2001
3,758
0
0
We live in a post-modern society... what do you expect? despite even many contemporary philosophers stating that it's bad, people still follow.
I think people are intolerant both ways... anti-religious people can and are just as bad as religious zealots.
I think Jesus would scold you!
 

wQuay

Senior member
Nov 19, 2000
712
0
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Organized religion, yes, spirituality and mysticism, no.

To be perfectly honest, I think atheism took off in the 19th century and died in the 20th.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
It's a fool's pleasure..with no shortage of fools for the imitative religious folly.
 

d1abolic

Banned
Sep 21, 2001
2,228
1
0
Yeah, religion is definitely going away. A few decades down the road, religious people in North America will become a minority, and religious people in Africa and the Middle East will become what they are today in North America. A 100 years from now, religious people everywhere will become a minority.
 

VPNightshade

Banned
Feb 23, 2002
39
0
0


<< It's a fool's pleasure..with no shortage of fools for the imitative religious folly. >>



See my sig. Personally, we all need something to believe in but we as mere mortals will never be able to figure out what is really going
on. Our upper brain function isn't capable of it. That's why we have so many "religious wars". We still haven't come to the conclusion
that what we believe could be wrong - but we always believe that the other guy is wrong in their beliefs. That's why we have to try so hard to convert him - either that or kill him.

VP
 

CarpeDeo

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2000
1,778
0
0
"Religion" will go away when you can answer these 3 questions:

What is man's origin?
What is man's purpose?
What is man's destiny?

<i KNOW this one's gonna get a lotta jokes
 

zod

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
825
0
0
CarpeDeo -

What is man's origin?
What is man's purpose?
What is man's destiny?


Origin
Homo sapiens sapiens -> Archaic Homo sapiens -> Homo erectus -> Homo habilis -> some gracile Australopitecine -> etcetc... some miocene ape... some early primate resembling a squirrel or tree shrew or something that size... some wee mammal... some weird crossover reptile/mammal thing... some reptile...some amphibian...some phish (jawed...no jaw)...some shelled sea dwelling organism...some simple multicellular organism...a Eukaryotic cell...a Prokaryotic cell...chemical soup.

Purpose
Figure that out for yourself, you're a grown-up. Or if you prefer, none. Or if you prefer, to procreate and pass on your genes.

Destiny
"There is no fate but what we make for ourselves" <-- T2 quote. Bad acting. Good movie.
As it looks right now, our destiny is to pollute the world to the brink of extinction. We may be too smart for it to get that far, since I'd figure our survival instinct as a species will take over. I hope my destiny is to find some cool NYC girl I can date. And to sleep in tomorrow. Do you need anything else?
How about this? Make the world a better place when you leave it than it was when you came.
 

zeon

Senior member
Mar 20, 2001
335
0
0
i hope so. religion can be atributed as the primary contributor to a great many social ills historically and currently... personally i think it's time for an end to the indoctrination on religion and a movement towards more free thinking personal spiritualism/moralism.
 
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