Is Steph Curry already the best shooter in NBA history?

[SP33Demon]

1. LeBron James has multiple seasons where his regular season PER is better than Curry's career best.

So what if Curry had a better regular season this year during the regular season--James was a much better player from Game 1 of the regular season to Game 7 of the NBA finals.

My Proof: 99% of fans would, for the 2015-2016 season, trade Curry straight up for James. James on the GSW wins a title. Curry on the Cavs gets crushed.

2. James, having been to the last 6 NBA finals and on the other side of 30, knew the goal was an NBA ring, not a regular season record. That means saving some in the tank.

Specifically, James plays a lot in the paint and attacks/defends the rim. That takes more energy than Curry floating insane shots from well beyond the arc. The result is when Cleveland has leads safe in hand James isn't going to risk injury or energy quite as indiscriminately. Curry's style of play is more conducive to padding.

Example: James' dunk attempt on Green at the end of game 7. If this is a regular season game James may not have been as reckless and instead opted for a safer play that didn't carry as much risk and require as much energy while getting the same result (game 7: James wisely forced Green to foul or allow James to effectively end the game uncontested). After 6 consecutive seasons of playing all the way through the finals James does need to be diplomatic about his regular season decisions.

3. James is expected to play both sides of the court at a higher level than Curry and James regularly works against the opponents best player 1-4 and sometimes 5.

4. Curry simply had a better regular season than James did this year--but over a 6 year sample, including playoffs, James PER crushes Curry's.

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

 

[smackababy]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

Why was LBJ #1 in winning the 4 games that really mattered and Curry not even a close 2nd?

 

[core2slow]

Playoff/Finals stats >>>>> regular season

Steph has had a historically bad showing in the playoff and Finals, and aside from dropping 40pts in Portland after being out with a sprain ankle, he has been completely overshadowed by Klay and draymond this year in the playoff. I'm sure he'll put up crazy numbers again next year in the regular season, but i doubt anyone would care as much after being pretty much exposed by OKC and Cavs in this playoff.

 

[Shlong]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

Lebron came out of high school, Steph had 3 years in college but compare their first 7 seasons and Lebron is greater.

Stephen had VORP seasons of: 9.8 (2015-2016), 7.9, 6.7, 5.6, 1.0, 2.4, 2.2 in his first 7 seasons (Value over replacement player).

Lebron James had VORP seasons of: 11.6, 10.9, 10.1, 9.8, 9.5 in his first 7 seasons (Value over replacement player).

Lebron has had 2 seasons where he posted a higher PER (31.7, 31.6) than Steph's highest PER season (31.5). Steph's early career his advanced metrics were barely better than Jeremy Lin, posting PER's in mid 2.0 and under range. He's going to be 30 in 19 months and I don't see him surpassing his 2015-2016 season.

Steph relies too much on the long ball when his shot isn't going down (games 5-7) he doesn't have much impact on the game. If Lebron's shot isn't going down, he can still have a huge impact with rebounding, assists, blocks, stout defense. Kyrie had his way with Steph and was only shutdown when Klay Thompson guarded him but he did whatever he wanted with Steph (somewhat of a defensive liability). Steph is just a better shooter, Lebron is the more complete and better player. That's why he's getting discussions of potentially being an all-timer and GOAT (behind MJ).

 

[thesmokingman]

Spin spin spin your article. You conveniently left out " I said, ‘Not spotting up, it’s Korver.’ Steph got mad. I still don’t know if he likes me because of it.”

Spot-up shooter =! best shooter, nice try son. Korver doesn't create his own shot.

I bet you were like F that guy Brian Scalabrine! :biggrin:


lol@Korver doesn't create his own shot as if Curry creates his own like you ignore the moving screens, ahaha!

 

[zinfamous]

Bill Burr says...



It's worth all 14 minutes, and summarizes everything everyone has said here....
--the soccer parts are the best--

 

[Miramonti]

Bill Burr says...



It's worth all 14 minutes, and summarizes everything everyone has said here....
--the soccer parts are the best--

Haha, always love some Bill Burr.

 

[LikeLinus]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career?

LeBron James - 31 yrs old
Steph Curry - 28 yrs old

Curry’s best year - 31.56 PER (2016) - 7th Year in League (Age 28)

Jame’s 2nd best - 31.67 PER (2013) - 10th Year In League (Age 29)
Jame’s best year- 31.76 PER (2008-2009) - 5th Year in League (Age (Age 24)

Review and let that all sink in. James had a higher PER in his 5th year at age 24yrs old in the league. Younger and fewer years in the league than Curry.

THAT is an apples to apples comparison.

James has had at least TWO seasons that with overall better player efficiency per minute over the entire year.

i LOVE this tidbit. “To compare 7 games to 82 is the epitome of stupidity”

Show me ONE, just ONE, NBA player who says “man, wish I had performed better in the regular season than the playoffs. I mean my whole goal is to be the best in the league, until the playoffs, then I want to play like shit and lose while up 3-1”. But at least I know I’m the better player because I won the regular seasons!

That’s the most asinine comment I’ve ever seen. Let’s get it straight here, Regular Season ultimately means shit, as long as you make the playoffs. The playoffs are where the real winners are made. Fuck PER, Fuck Best Regular Season, Fuck shooting percentage. If you are the league MVP with the best record in basketball, you’re up 3-1 and you completely shut down and lose 3 straight games and score absolutely nothing in GAME 7 4th quarter……you are NOT the best player in Basketball. Period. You’re a great shooter, fantastic, but you want to talk about a failed argument?

You’ve been proven that James has had TWO better all around years than Curry. One with fewer years and younger, one older and more years. You can speculate all you want on the future, but fact of the matter is, going into these past playoffs and up 3-1, did anyone outside of Cleveland think that James had a chance? Yet he put up 41, 41 and a triple double to bring home a championship to a city who hand’t won in 52 years. So speculate, fantasize and do whatever makes you sleep at night with your splash brothers blankie.

Spin your argument any way you want, James is the better all around player at this point.

Also, just so you know, I have no dog in this fight and I’m not a James fan. I grew up with MJ (GOAT) and will die with MJ. But I know greatness when I see it.

Go ahead find another way to spin your argument. Points in paint, number of Gatorade cups drank per timeout, number of Chef shoots or body wiggles per game. The fact that James did what he did makes him a greater player. Curry and his team lost up 3-1 in the NBA finals WITH home court advantage. Seriously?

Do you honestly believe if you asked Curry if he'd rather have his best regular season or win the NBA Championship and be MVP, that he would rather be the better RS and shooter? LOL. The guy didn't even win the MVP when he did win the championship.

Should his new playoff game nickname be "Steph Houdini Curry"?

 

[renz20003]

Should his new playoff game nickname be "Steph Houdini Curry"?

No, it should be Adrianne Curry because he's a bitch.

 

[QueBert]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

Curry's ceiling will still suck at defense. He's a better shooter than James, outside of MAYBE passing James is better at everything else. Did you watch the finals? Lebron was swatting away curry's shots like an 18 year old playing with their lil 9 year old brother. And imho if Irving wasn't injured last year Stephy wouldn't have a single ring.

 

[UncleWai]

Lebron James is 6'8" 250lbs. Curry listed height is 6'3" (More like 6'1") and 190lbs.
That's 60 extra lbs of crushing force. No matter how skillful Curry is, he physically cannot bum rush his way out of a double team. Lebron is the GOAT in basketball physique.

Curry has a better read of the game and is light years better than Lebron as a shooter.

 

[zerocool84]

Lebron James is 6'8" 250lbs. Curry listed height is 6'3" (More like 6'1") and 190lbs.
That's 60 extra lbs of crushing force. No matter how skillful Curry is, he physically cannot bum rush his way out of a double team. Lebron is the GOAT in basketball physique.

Curry has a better read of the game and is light years better than Lebron as a shooter.

No, Curry does not have a better read of the game. His whole game is three pointers.

 

[zinfamous]

No, Curry does not have a better read of the game. His whole game is three pointers.

I thought that was a weird comment, too. He doesn't even know how to get open and create space all that well, so he just conditioned his shot to adapt to that.

It's certainly effective for his scoring, but it still shows a lack of skill in off-ball movement, imo. Further, when your primary goal is to just bring the ball up half court and launch it...where is the "superior read"?

 

[Muse]

No, Curry does not have a better read of the game. His whole game is three pointers.

No, that was Klay Thompson before last season. Curry's play in the paint is astounding, as much so as Lebron's, Kyrie's.

Healthy, there's much more to Curry's game than the 3 pointer, however he is the greatest of all time at the 3.

 

[manly]

I thought that was a weird comment, too. He doesn't even know how to get open and create space all that well, so he just conditioned his shot to adapt to that.

It's certainly effective for his scoring, but it still shows a lack of skill in off-ball movement, imo. Further, when your primary goal is to just bring the ball up half court and launch it...where is the "superior read"?

This thread is getting out of hand with the SP33D-bashing; wtf are you/zerocool84 talking about?

Curry has developed an excellent handle, and he creates good looks out in the perimeter or driving into the lane. It's debatable whether Curry is more of a PG or SG (his assist numbers are modest), but guys like Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes were WIDE FUCKING OPEN because of Curry (and Klay). So Curry has to often deal with heavy double-teaming, and quickly decide where to pass the ball.

To suggest all that Curry does is jack up 3s is laughable. I'm not saying Curry has LeBron's court vision but he's much more than a roll-off-a-screen jump shooter.

 

[zerocool84]

This thread is getting out of hand with the SP33D-bashing; wtf are you/zerocool84 talking about?

Curry has developed an excellent handle, and he creates good looks out in the perimeter or driving into the lane. It's debatable whether Curry is more of a PG or SG (his assist numbers are modest), but guys like Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes were WIDE FUCKING OPEN because of Curry (and Klay). So Curry has to often deal with heavy double-teaming, and quickly decide where to pass the ball.

To suggest all that Curry does is jack up 3s is laughable. I'm not saying Curry has LeBron's court vision but he's much more than a roll-off-a-screen jump shooter.

If Curry went to the bucket more, it would open up their team that much more. That's part of the reason why they didn't win the championship. They will occasionally drive to the bucket, we've seen Klay and Curry do it on occasion but they don't do it enough. Everyone knows that they are going to shoot threes. That's not the type of team they are. The series with the Thunder, their threes were going down so that's how they beat them. With the finals, their shots weren't going in and instead of driving to the basket, getting a bucket or a foul, they just shot it because that's all they've known how to win.

 

[smackababy]

If Curry went to the bucket more, it would open up their team that much more. That's part of the reason why they didn't win the championship. They will occasionally drive to the bucket, we've seen Klay and Curry do it on occasion but they don't do it enough. Everyone knows that they are going to shoot threes. That's not the type of team they are. The series with the Thunder, their threes were going down so that's how they beat them. With the finals, their shots weren't going in and instead of driving to the basket, getting a bucket or a foul, they just shot it because that's all they've known how to win.

Even when they got good switches (Thompson guarding Curry on the perimeter, for example), they weren't able to drive.

 

[Miramonti]

Curry has little to no midrange game...yet now needs it even less. Pick and rolls/screen rolls with Curry and Durant will be brutal for opponents to defend.

 

[Miramonti]

If Curry went to the bucket more, it would open up their team that much more. That's part of the reason why they didn't win the championship. They will occasionally drive to the bucket, we've seen Klay and Curry do it on occasion but they don't do it enough. Everyone knows that they are going to shoot threes. That's not the type of team they are. The series with the Thunder, their threes were going down so that's how they beat them. With the finals, their shots weren't going in and instead of driving to the basket, getting a bucket or a foul, they just shot it because that's all they've known how to win.

I thought he drove a decent amount but a) he missed a lot of chippies b) was forced to change his shot quite a bit and missed many as a result, and c) was swatted a few times. So I think the defensive pressure was in his head (from defense in the paint to perimeter defense), and is why he sucked so bad in the finals. It didn't help that he was getting shredded by Irving either.

For two years, he has been soft in the finals. Where the pressure and competition is often the greatest, he's failed to lead his team.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

Curry is going to have clones that play his game in the NBA within 4 years. He won't be anything special. LBJ will still be special.

 

[chitwood]

Lebron is the GOAT in basketball physique.

someone called into The Herd a few years ago and described LeBron as, built like Karl Malone, plays defense like Pippen, and plays offense like Magic.

I thought that was pretty accurate.

OT: Comparing Curry to James as shooters is silly, of course Curry is better. But Curry is nothing close to James as far as a complete player.

 

[preslove]

LBJ hasn't had a single year that beats Curry's best in his entire career. Compare apples to apples, it's a strawman to compare LBJ's longer career/prime than Steph's 2 year prime.

So LBJ attacks the rim in the paint more? Then why did Steph crush him in finishing in the paint and why wasn't LBJ #1 in the NBA in finishing in the paint (not Steph)? I'll give you defense, but Steph is the ultimate offensive weapon. Hence why he's the first PG to consistently draw double teams since Magic. Curry is still getting better, his ceiling when healthy will soon be crushing (and not just beating) LBJ's prime years to prime years.

This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on basketball.

LBJ is the best all around basketball player of his generation and the best forward to ever play the game. Steph is great, but not historically great.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

It's funny to me how similar the Warriors and Cavs built their teams.

LeBron -> Durant
Irving -> Curry
Love -> Green
Smith -> Thompson

Hell, they each had 7+ footers (Mosgov and Bogut) that barely played any minutes that just signed with other teams. You can argue all you want who wins each position match-up, but I hope they keep their chemistry after the changes this off-season. I want to see them in the finals again next year.

 

[smackababy]

It's funny to me how similar the Warriors and Cavs built their teams.

LeBron -> Durant
Irving -> Curry
Love -> Green
Smith -> Thompson

Hell, they each had 7+ footers (Mosgov and Bogut) that barely played any minutes that just signed with other teams. You can argue all you want who wins each position match-up, but I hope they keep their chemistry after the changes this off-season. I want to see them in the finals again next year.

The Cavs didn't play Mozgoz because Tristian Thompson emerged as a much better player. He could play defense, protect the rim, and rebound like crazy. If he works on his free throws, he'd never sit.

 

[Miramonti]

Curry is going to have clones that play his game in the NBA within 4 years. He won't be anything special. LBJ will still be special.

Curry is a physical 'freak of nature' as well, just like James, but for other reasons, and imo won't be cloned for a long time, no matter how many 'wannabees' he inspires. Certain players come into the league with a combination of physical uniqueness and skillsets (some of which are improved over time) that have never been seen before, and are essentially 'prototypes' that become are extremely difficult to emulate.