Is Steph Curry already the best shooter in NBA history?

[shimpster]

After viewing mr curry's pathetic performance, temper tantrumz, and poor leadership during the recent nba finalz, i am of the opinion he is a dumb turd

 

[Red Storm]

It factors that he shot like this in the finals, again. After shooting much better in the regular season. Scoring more, etc. Players legacies are made in the playoffs, not the regular season.

Calling him the best shooter is just idiotic. Bottom line.

Who shoots better than him? I haven't seen anyone do what he has.

Wins/losses/regular season/playoffs don't matter, we're talking about the best shooter. If it's not Steph, then who?

I also think Klay Thompson is one of the top 5 shooters in history.

 

[Mandres]

It was a sad way to end the season for sure for Curry fans. It really seemed like he wasn't the same player ever since the knee injury. If that was a factor I sure hope it's 100% by next year.

 

[preslove]

Who shoots better than him? I haven't seen anyone do what he has.

Wins/losses/regular season/playoffs don't matter, we're talking about the best shooter. If it's not Steph, then who?

I also think Klay Thompson is one of the top 5 shooters in history.

Reggie Miller had better 3 pt shooting % in several years than Curry has ever had. In the regular season, Miller never matched his numbers, but he surpassed his playoff numbers.

 

[vi edit]

I'm not sure it's totally fair to compare to compare historical numbers. Much like the NFL the game changes, rules change, ect and stats get whacky. NFL has become totally pass happy and the attempts and yards put up per game are way different than they were 20 years ago.

I don't know how else you can relate other than raw data, but it's tough to objectively compare stats from decade to the next.

 

[preslove]

I'm not sure it's totally fair to compare to compare historical numbers. Much like the NFL the game changes, rules change, ect and stats get whacky. NFL has become totally pass happy and the attempts and yards put up per game are way different than they were 20 years ago.

I don't know how else you can relate other than raw data, but it's tough to objectively compare stats from decade to the next.

If anything, Miller's numbers in the early aughts were better. Golden state's double screens and advanced offense are much better at giving open looks for 3s.

I'm not even saying Curry isn't the best shooter, in the regular season. But, in the playoffs, and especially during the finals, his numbers drop off. If he does this again in the playoffs next year, then he'll be more of a choke artist than James ever was.

 

[momeNt]

It comes down to 1 simple concept and 3 basic rules

Regular season games don't matter - don't expend unecessary energy on them.
Nobody plays defense in regular season games - defense costs more energy
Save as much energy for the games that do matter.

Steph Curry can't handle playoff levels of defensive energy thrown at him.

 

[Printer Bandit]

steph's wife's tweet about the nba being rigged cost him the series.

 

[thesmokingman]

steph's wife's tweet about the nba being rigged cost him the series.

And not the 3 pts in the last quarter of Game 7, am I right?

 

[SP33Demon]

Yet here is where you show your pure ignorance for the game. Shooting percentage of a player is a single stat. You have to evaluate the complete game and what their contributions bring to the team. Take a look at the overall stats and let us know if you still believe Curry was a better player for his team, versus the contributions from James.

James - 29.7 PPG 11.2 REB 8.9 AST 2.3 BLK 2.6 STL 4.4 TO
Curry - 22.6 PPG 4.9 REB 3.7 AST 0.7 BLK 0.9 STL 4.3 TO

Anyone with half a brain will see that James' overall play contributed more points per possession to his team. He destroyed Curry in rebounds, assist, steals and blocks. The turnovers were within one tenth, so that's a wash.

So taking everything into account, what does Curry's shooting percentage really gain if he's contributing fewer TOTAL points per game of his team. I think at one point I saw James was responsible for 53 of 92 points at one point in the 4th quarter? So those rebounds, assist, blocks and steals actually generated MORE production and scoring opportunities, than say simply being able to hit a few more shots in fewer attempts.

Shooting percentage be damned, his team didn't lose after being up 3-1. He scored 41 points in two straight games and a triple double in the winning game. Whine about insignificant stats all you want and make excuses, but Cleveland made history and that's that.

Curry had a terrific season and one we might not see for awhile, but scoring under 20 points in 4 games in the NBA finals? Pretty much a fail all around.

If Lebron was so much better, then why did he get destroyed in PER by Curry in the reg season? That takes all of your stats into account and more over a larger sample size. To compare 7 games to 82 is the epitome of stupidity, especially when one guy is on a sprained MCL. "Pretty much a fail all around [with such an argument]".

 

[SP33Demon]

I love LeBron and his body of work, but you clearly have no recollection of the 2011 NBA Finals.

And you can knock Steph's series performance but he's the main reason Draymond Green, Harrison Barnes and others get so many quality looks. So yes, Steph does make other players better even when he's not playing well. (Well, except for Barnes.)

Yep, things like that don't show up on the stat sheet. And for things that do we have PER where Curry when healthy (reg season) crushed everyone in the NBA since 1991 (MJ) this year.

 

[vi edit]

Yep, things like that don't show up on the stat sheet. And for things that do we have PER where Curry when healthy (reg season) crushed everyone in the NBA since 1991 (MJ) this year.

I think momeNt summarized that pretty well. Playoff ball is simply different. They let more contact typically go, defenses are much more amped up, teams have more time to prepare and respond. Cleveland was forcing Curry to d-up more than he normally would have to and he was getting banged up and hustled more than he normally does.

 

[zinfamous]

Yep, things like that don't show up on the stat sheet. And for things that do we have PER where Curry when healthy (reg season) crushed everyone in the NBA since 1991 (MJ) this year.

I defended Curry with this same argument--but those things actually do show up on the stat sheet.

Say, when MJ was getting that exact same kind of attention (and more--because he was fucking MJ and 10x the ball player that Curry is) he was still putting up numbers and never disappearing from the finals, much less the entirety of the playoffs.

And those are quantifiable numbers.

 

[smackababy]

Yep, things like that don't show up on the stat sheet. And for things that do we have PER where Curry when healthy (reg season) crushed everyone in the NBA since 1991 (MJ) this year.

Good thing all that PER means a lot in the NBA finals where Lebron shit on his entire team.

 

[purbeast0]

If Lebron was so much better, then why did he get destroyed in PER by Curry in the reg season? That takes all of your stats into account and more over a larger sample size. To compare 7 games to 82 is the epitome of stupidity, especially when one guy is on a sprained MCL. "Pretty much a fail all around [with such an argument]".

Yep, things like that don't show up on the stat sheet. And for things that do we have PER where Curry when healthy (reg season) crushed everyone in the NBA since 1991 (MJ) this year.

the excuses are strong with this one.

 

[edro]

If Lebron was so much better, then why did he get destroyed in PER by Curry in the reg season? That takes all of your stats into account and more over a larger sample size. To compare 7 games to 82 is the epitome of stupidity

Regular season is 75% scrub ball against people like LA, Phoenix, New Orleans, Denver, etc.

If you don't understand the difference between the regular season and the Finals, there is no hope for you.

 

[SP33Demon]

I defended Curry with this same argument--but those things actually do show up on the stat sheet.

Say, when MJ was getting that exact same kind of attention (and more--because he was fucking MJ and 10x the ball player that Curry is) he was still putting up numbers and never disappearing from the finals, much less the entirety of the playoffs.

And those are quantifiable numbers.

Do you know the difference between a shooting guard vs a point guard? No point guard has ever drawn as much attention in the modern era, and historically only Magic drew as much attention (if you can call Magic a PG b/c he can play every position). That's why I said it doesn't translate to the stat sheet and why Curry averages more assists than shooting guards like MJ. The only PG with the scoring lethality of Curry is probably Steve Nash and Curry is scoring twice as much as Nash did while only averaging 1.x less assists than Nash. He has added responsibilities other than just shooting.

 

[SP33Demon]

Regular season is 75% scrub ball against people like LA, Phoenix, New Orleans, Denver, etc.

If you don't understand the difference between the regular season and the Finals, there is no hope for you.

Then why didn't Lebron comparatively perform at a higher level against scrubs? You aren't making any sense. Either way Curry played well enough to be MVP in last year's playoffs by leading every player on his team in the 2015 playoffs with a PER of 21. When he's healthy, he's the best, even in the playoffs.

 

[vi edit]

The only PG with the scoring lethality of Curry is probably Steve Nash and Curry is scoring twice as much as Nash did while only averaging 1.x less assists than Nash. He has added responsibilities other than just shooting.

Westbrook and Kyrie may disagree with you there.

 

[Red Storm]

Reggie Miller had better 3 pt shooting % in several years than Curry has ever had. In the regular season, Miller never matched his numbers, but he surpassed his playoff numbers.

Reggie Miller never shot higher than 42% from 3 during a season (source).

Steph Curry had one season where he shot 42%, the rest are all better than 42%. And he has averaged around 227 threes made per season, compared to around 142 for Miller.

I fondly remember how good of a shooter Miller was, but the numbers do not agree with you. Steph not only shot better, but he made way more per season as well.

Best shooter is not about best player, the playoffs, championships, MVPs, none of that. It's simply the best shooter. Jordan and Lebron have nothing to do with this conversation, I don't know why it keeps coming up. At least Reggie Miller is a valid comparison.

Edit: Forgot to add that you have to look at the regular season because it provides much more of a baseline. The playoffs are too small of a sample size and the amount of games varies because of how a series works.

 

[manly]

I'm not sure it's totally fair to compare to compare historical numbers. Much like the NFL the game changes, rules change, ect and stats get whacky. NFL has become totally pass happy and the attempts and yards put up per game are way different than they were 20 years ago.

I don't know how else you can relate other than raw data, but it's tough to objectively compare stats from decade to the next.

This is not a good comparison. I agree with you that passing stats in the NFL are not comparable to historical marks. What Dan Marino did in 1984 is probably the equivalent of a 6000+ yard passing season now. Speaking of Marino, I really hope people would dispel of the notion that one player's lack of rings (a team achievement) invalidates his career production.

OTOH, except for the years where the NBA brought the 3-point line in, the 3 point shot is still the same shot. Yes, the sabermetrics revolution has influenced everyone to seek out the shot in record-breaking frequency due to its greater theoretical value. You're right that you can't compare a volume record like 3 point makes in a season.

However Steph and Klay shoot great percentages compared to historical marks. The shot itself hasn't changed, although you could argue (and I'd accept) that the focus on the 3pt shot ultimately leads to greater efficiency in making it (I think it was reported Buddy Hield made 85 out of 100 3 pointers at a recent pre-draft workout). Right now it's a bit early to say, but it wouldn't surprise us if within a decade there are many great high-volume 3pt shooters (as opposed to an accurate specialist like Kyle Korver).

If anything, it's actually more amazing to me that Steph can fire off 11 attempts a game and still hit 45% of them. Not all of those are subjectively good attempts. In fact, he shoots about 40% from deep 3 (I believe that's something like 28-40 feet), which is totally unheard of compared to the rest of the league. For everybody else (including Klay), those are just bad shots in general.

Like Red Storm asked, if Steph isn't the best jump shooter we've seen, who is?

For the record, PER is kind of a "bad" counting stat. LeBron has also had multiple 30+ PER seasons and MVP awards to go with them, so it's not unprecedented. IIRC Anthony Davis hit 30 last year as well, and was a trendy preseason MVP pick of many. But IIRC PER doesn't adjust for usage rate, so last season Enes Kanter was top-12. This season, Billy Donovan made him a bench player.

 

[smackababy]

Reggie Miller never shot higher than 42% from 3 during a season (source).

Steph Curry had one season where he shot 42%, the rest are all better than 42%. And he has averaged around 227 threes made per season, compared to around 142 for Miller.

I fondly remember how good of a shooter Miller was, but the numbers do not agree with you. Steph not only shot better, but he made way more per season as well.

Best shooter is not about best player, the playoffs, championships, MVPs, none of that. It's simply the best shooter. Jordan and Lebron have nothing to do with this conversation, I don't know why it keeps coming up. At least Reggie Miller is a valid comparison.

Edit: Forgot to add that you have to look at the regular season because it provides much more of a baseline. The playoffs are too small of a sample size and the amount of games varies because of how a series works.

Reggie Miller also scored more points in 11 seconds than Curry scored in the 4th quarter of game 7.

 

[Ban Bot]

Then why didn't Lebron comparatively perform at a higher level against scrubs? You aren't making any sense. Either way Curry played well enough to be MVP in last year's playoffs by leading every player on his team in the 2015 playoffs with a PER of 21. When he's healthy, he's the best, even in the playoffs.

1. LeBron James has multiple seasons where his regular season PER is better than Curry's career best.

So what if Curry had a better regular season this year during the regular season--James was a much better player from Game 1 of the regular season to Game 7 of the NBA finals.

My Proof: 99% of fans would, for the 2015-2016 season, trade Curry straight up for James. James on the GSW wins a title. Curry on the Cavs gets crushed.

2. James, having been to the last 6 NBA finals and on the other side of 30, knew the goal was an NBA ring, not a regular season record. That means saving some in the tank.

Specifically, James plays a lot in the paint and attacks/defends the rim. That takes more energy than Curry floating insane shots from well beyond the arc. The result is when Cleveland has leads safe in hand James isn't going to risk injury or energy quite as indiscriminately. Curry's style of play is more conducive to padding.

Example: James' dunk attempt on Green at the end of game 7. If this is a regular season game James may not have been as reckless and instead opted for a safer play that didn't carry as much risk and require as much energy while getting the same result (game 7: James wisely forced Green to foul or allow James to effectively end the game uncontested). After 6 consecutive seasons of playing all the way through the finals James does need to be diplomatic about his regular season decisions.

3. James is expected to play both sides of the court at a higher level than Curry and James regularly works against the opponents best player 1-4 and sometimes 5.

4. Curry simply had a better regular season than James did this year--but over a 6 year sample, including playoffs, James PER crushes Curry's.

 

[thesmokingman]

Like Red Storm asked, if Steph isn't the best jump shooter we've seen, who is?

He's not. Even the ppl associated with coaching Curry say no.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/21/st...tate-warriors-sports-illustrated-nba-playoffs

Who is the best spot-up 3-point shooter in the NBA? The debate generally comes down to MVP Stephen Curry and former Creighton star Kyle Korver.
According Brian Scalabrine, an assistant coach for the Warriors and Curry, the answer is Korver.
Scalabrine told Sports Illustrated that he announced to some of his Golden State players that Korver, an Atlanta Hawks' guard, once made 99 out of 100 3-pointers during a shooting drill.

It's hilarious, wanna be like Mike, or in this case Korver.

Curry has started doing the same drill that Korver does after every practice.

 

[SP33Demon]

He's not. Even the ppl associated with coaching Curry say no.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/21/st...tate-warriors-sports-illustrated-nba-playoffs


It's hilarious, wanna be like Mike, or in this case Korver.

Spin spin spin your article. You conveniently left out " I said, ‘Not spotting up, it’s Korver.’ Steph got mad. I still don’t know if he likes me because of it.”

Spot-up shooter =! best shooter, nice try son. Korver doesn't create his own shot.