Is that the reason why having 8cores is important for gaming?

[torlen11cc]

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02...-test/#abschnitt_performancerating_in_full_hd

 

[french toast]

An eye opener for sure. If your a gamer 4 cores are now a waste of time at the high end.

 

[CHADBOGA]

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02...-test/#abschnitt_performancerating_in_full_hd

It would be interesting to see the minimum frames situation.

 

[JoeRambo]

It would be interesting to see the minimum frames situation.

Not only that, but I'd love them to do deeper analysis. Maybe all gain from HEDT processors is from larger l3 cache and not having more cores? That would make that hexa core Zen with 16MB of cache even more epic deal.

 

[Atari2600]

Not only that, but I'd love them to do deeper analysis. Maybe all gain from HEDT processors is from larger l3 cache and not having more cores? That would make that hexa core Zen with 16MB of cache even more epic deal.

If that is the case, I'd guess you'll see the evidence in the reviews on down the line.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You are going to be disappointed if you think its due to more cores and not due to 4Ghz, huge L3 and quad channel memory.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/multi-core-cpu-scaling-directx-11,4768.html

Same reason why a 5775C can match a 6700K.

 

[tamz_msc]

You are going to be disappointed if you think its due to more cores and not due to 4Ghz, huge L3 and quad channel memory.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/multi-core-cpu-scaling-directx-11,4768.html

Same reason why a 5775C can match a 6700K.

Nice post. Except that your statements make ZERO logical sense, as the i7 5775C is neither 4GHz, nor does it have a 'huge' L3, and has no quad-channel support either.

If you meant EDRAM, then I ask, how many retail CPUs that you can buy have EDRAM? Dual vs Quad channel make no difference in games.

Oh and that graph does not come from the article linked either.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Nice post. Except that your statements make ZERO logical sense, as the i7 5775C is neither 4GHz, nor does it have a 'huge' L3, and has no quad-channel support either.

If you meant EDRAM, then I ask, how many retail CPUs that you can buy have EDRAM? Dual vs Quad channel make no difference in games.

Oh and that graph does not come from the article linked either.

The EDRAM on the 5775C is a large L4 cache. And its linked because its a classic example when the bottleneck is elsewhere than core performance. Its not that hard to understand is it?

 

[itsmydamnation]

The EDRAM on the 5775C is a large L4 cache. And its linked because its a classic example when the bottleneck is elsewhere than core performance.

So let me see if im understanding you correctly what your trying to say is that,

Because modern games are job based engines having more cores and threads means you can alleviate the challenges in cache misses by having more concurrency. Thus in a given amount of time more jobs get completed and thus higher frame rates.

So what your really trying to say is more cores is the NOW and future of gaming?

 

[NTMBK]

So let me see if im understanding you correctly what your trying to say is that,

Because modern games are job based engines having more cores and threads means you can alleviate the challenges in cache misses by having more concurrency. Thus in a given amount of time more jobs get completed and thus higher frame rates.

So what your really trying to say is more cores is the NOW and future of gaming?

Wow, that's one hell of a stretch 0_o Cache misses are a massive problem for single threaded performance too, not just multithreaded. If you miss in L3 and have to go all the way to main memory, your thread stalls for thousands of cycles. Adding in a big L4 means that a lot of the time you will reduce that latency, and hence improve per-thread performance.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Wow, that's one hell of a stretch 0_o Cache misses are a massive problem for single threaded performance too, not just multithreaded. If you miss in L3 and have to go all the way to main memory, your thread stalls for thousands of cycles. Adding in a big L4 means that a lot of the time you will reduce that latency, and hence improve per-thread performance.

Or you can have more cores, Shintai tries to pretend that its the extra cache reducing misses, well why isn't the amd 8mb l3 cpu performing the same as intels 8mb l3 cpu then?

In the case of gaming, game engines have been job based system since like the 2nd generation of games on the PS3 xbox360. Only now that the Consoles and PC hardware is so close are we seeing the benefits of those systems on the PC side as there is far less reworking of code base required.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Or you can have more cores, Shintai tries to pretend that its the extra cache reducing misses, well why isn't the amd 8mb l3 cpu performing the same as intels 8mb l3 cpu then?

In the case of gaming, game engines have been job based system since like the 2nd generation of games on the PS3 xbox360. Only now that the Consoles and PC hardware is so close are we seeing the benefits of those systems on the PC side as there is far less reworking of code base required.

Core performance matters too. But so does cache size and memory speed. Then you can act like it something else.

The Broadwell-E in the test not only have twice the memory bandwidth over the 7700K because they all used 2400Mhz. They also got 15, 20 and 25MB caches.

And its not news that 6700K/7700K is memory starved is it?

 

[NTMBK]

Or you can have more cores, Shintai tries to pretend that its the extra cache reducing misses, well why isn't the amd 8mb l3 cpu performing the same as intels 8mb l3 cpu then?

The AMD CPU's cache has longer latencies than the Intel cache, for a start. It has fewer execution units per core, less hardware for scheduling instructions... it is just a lower IPC core. The cache is one factor in an equation with a whole bunch of different parameters.

 

[itsmydamnation]

And its not news that 6700K/7700K is memory starved is it?

Yes it is, you ( like always ) get things confused. Any processor likes LOWER LATENCY MEMORY. memory timings / clock speed = latency. I dare you to prove a 7700k is memory bandwidth limited with middle of the road DDR4 ( say 3200 16-16-16 (10ns)) in games.

 

[JoeRambo]

Haha, so now DDR4 3200C16 is "middle of the road"

 

[itsmydamnation]

Haha, so now DDR4 3200C16 is "middle of the road"

Well it is in my book considering the very highend is 4200 and low end is 2400, drop lower i dont care make it 2800 15-15-15 then.


edit: just to make the point where i live i can buy 16gb 2133 for 159 (Kingston) and 3200 G.skill/corsair/kingston for 179 and 16gb of 3600 for 275. I think 3200 is very in the middle.

all prices AUD.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes it is, you ( like always ) get things confused. Any processor likes LOWER LATENCY MEMORY. memory timings / clock speed = latency. I dare you to prove a 7700k is memory bandwidth limited with middle of the road DDR4 ( say 3200 16-16-16 (10ns)) in games.

So now you tell me SKL/KBL needs 33% faster memory than used in the test? Thanks

 

[Dygaza]

It's only logical games are starting to get benefit from multiple cores. I don't know any modern AAA games that doesn't ultilize 8+ threads all the time. Running more threads on real cores is always beneficial. Granted cpu like I7-7700k has great one thread performance, but it's not as big as people think, as running other game threads on dedicated cores actually raises efficiency of main game logic thread (remember it has dependancies with other threads, so while other threads finish faster, it idless less). Ofc this efficiency gain isn't that big, but helps nullfily that single thread performance a bit.

 

[itsmydamnation]

So now you tell me SKL/KBL needs 33% faster memory than used in the test? Thanks

Nope drop the speeds if you want, just dont go with stupid DDR4 that has a memory latency of 15+ns. i pick 3200 because i feel its the best performance for money.

But still waiting for this test seeing you are so sure games are memory bandwdith bound. If you knew anything about how a core accesses memory in intel chips you would know why im not that worried. Hint: there is a maximum number of outstanding memory requests per core.

 

[psolord]

*don't open this if you are on a restricted mobile data plan*

Here are some screenshots from some video benchmarks I have uploaded on my Youtube channel. All done on a core i5-2500k@4.8Ghz and a GTX 1070@2Ghz.

Spoiler: i5-2500k & GTX 1070 ingame sshots

Don't think that a 4.8Ghz 2500k is a slouch. It does have 165cb singe core score.



So, even though it does decently, you will notice that in games like Deus Ex and Watchdogs 2, it almost goes tits up even at 4.8Ghz. I mean it struggles keeping 60fps.

I expect any Ryzen above 6C to do a lot better than that and at good prices too.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Nope drop the speeds if you want, just dont go with stupid DDR4 that has a memory latency of 15+ns. i pick 3200 because i feel its the best performance for money.

But still waiting for this test seeing you are so sure games are memory bandwdith bound. If you knew anything about how a core accesses memory in intel chips you would know why im not that worried. Hint: there is a maximum number of outstanding memory requests per core.

Its funny you mention a subject that have been covered quite a bit. And if you think its due to latency instead, prove it

 

[coercitiv]

What DDR4 memory did Computerbase use for Kaby Lake in their tests?

 

[itsmydamnation]

Its funny you mention a subject that have been covered quite a bit. And if you think its due to latency instead, prove it

Sigh do you even read here let me put it in big writing for you

MEMORY LATENCY

what is the memory latency of those memories?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Sigh do you even read here let me put it in big writing for you

MEMORY LATENCY

what is the memory latency of those memories?

I told you to prove that its memory latency and not speed. Looking forward to your documentation.

 

[ShintaiDK]

What DDR4 memory did Computerbase use for Kaby Lake in their tests?

DDR3 1333Mhz for SB
DDR3 1600Mhz for HSW
DDR3 1866Mhz for FX
DDR4 2400Mhz for KBL/BDW-E(Quad)