Is the Declaration of Independence Unconstitutional?

[Random Variable]

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"...And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

The first and last sentences of the Declaration of Independence mention God.

 

[ElFenix]

it predates any US federal compact, so no.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
it predates any US federal compact, so no.

That's what I was going to say.

amish

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
it predates any US federal compact, so no.

So if it had been written on the day after the U.S. Constitution was ratified, it would be unconstitutional?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Independence was declared prior to the writing of the constitution.

I agree that they should have never put the god part in it in the first place ... however they did ... and its a historic document ... and you cant change history (well ... i suppose you could try if you wanted to defruad everyone)

 

[Dually]

Vespasian-

As mentioned no it isn't unconstitutional because it was before the Constitution went into effect.

No it wouldn't be unconstitutional if it occured after the constitution because the statement doesnt reflect a tie to an organized religion.

 

[FoBoT]

the US Constitution has this phrase near the end

by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven

so who is this "Lord" that is mentioned? is this the same "God" that must be excluded from the Pledge? or somebody else?

 

[ggavinmoss]

This is a stupid thread.

The DoI is not law. It was written prior to the U.S. forming as a free nation. All you want to do is stir up flames.

-geoff

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
the US Constitution has this phrase near the end

by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven

so who is this "Lord" that is mentioned? is this the same "God" that must be excluded from the Pledge? or somebody else?

It's just the common speech back then.

amish

 

[LAUST]

I think the people bringing it up are just Bored, if they want to do something for the country for real, they need to go out and work on real problem issues not getting all bent out of shape about songs and symbols.

"I consider them to be symbols and I leave symbols to the Symbol minded"

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Dually
Vespasian-

As mentioned no it isn't unconstitutional because it was before the Constitution went into effect.

No it wouldn't be unconstitutional if it occured after the constitution because the statement doesnt reflect a tie to an organized religion.

And neither does the phrase "under God."

 

[PaNsyBoy8]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Dually
Vespasian-

As mentioned no it isn't unconstitutional because it was before the Constitution went into effect.

No it wouldn't be unconstitutional if it occured after the constitution because the statement doesnt reflect a tie to an organized religion.

And neither does the phrase "under God."

"under God" does tie to a religion since its God, proper noun, the god of the christian religions.

 

[JupiterJones]

Here's the question that needs to be asked:


Would it be unconstitutional to require public school kids to read/learn about the Declaration of Independence?

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Dually
Vespasian-

As mentioned no it isn't unconstitutional because it was before the Constitution went into effect.

No it wouldn't be unconstitutional if it occured after the constitution because the statement doesnt reflect a tie to an organized religion.

And neither does the phrase "under God."

"under God" does tie to a religion since its God, proper noun, the god of the christian religions.

That's nonsense. The word "God" could just as easily be referring to Allah or Zeus.

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: PaNsyBoy8

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Dually
Vespasian-

As mentioned no it isn't unconstitutional because it was before the Constitution went into effect.

No it wouldn't be unconstitutional if it occured after the constitution because the statement doesnt reflect a tie to an organized religion.

And neither does the phrase "under God."

"under God" does tie to a religion since its God, proper noun, the god of the christian religions.

That's nonsense. The word "God" could just as easily be referring to Allah or Zeus.

As soon as it's capitalized it's a name. Allah and Zeus are gods.

 

[Random Variable]

You do realize that every July 4th we celebrate the signing of this document, right?

 

[Random Variable]

As soon as it's capitalized it's a name. Allah and Zeus are gods.

So "under god" is OK?

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
You do realize that every July 4th we celebrate the signing of this document, right?

You do realize that you're nothing but a political troll, right?

So "under god" is OK?

I don't think so because not everyone has a god.

To me, it has nothing to do with it not including other religions, it has to do with including religion at all. My pledge to this country should have nothing to do with my religion.

 

[rahvin]

That's nonsense. The word "God" could just as easily be referring to Allah or Zeus.

Yep it sure can. But it doesn't say gods or lack or god does it? Sorta throws out the whole seperation of church and state when the state endorses monotheism.

 

[TuffGirl]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
the US Constitution has this phrase near the end

by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven

so who is this "Lord" that is mentioned? is this the same "God" that must be excluded from the Pledge? or somebody else?

"in the Year of our Lord" is just another way of saying "anno domini". Every date is followed by A.D. even though it's not usually written. Hmm perhaps our year dating system is unconstitutional since all our dates are based on the historic birth of Christ.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: pulse8

Originally posted by: Vespasian
You do realize that every July 4th we celebrate the signing of this document, right?

You do realize that you're nothing but a political troll, right?

I just find it fascinating that so many people on here consider it a meaningless document when we commmorate it every year with fireworks.

 

[Ramsnake]

Now repeat after me


Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not

 

[crystal]

Separation of Church and State aside, do you know that in any conflict (i.e. war), each side claims god is on their side.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Ramsnake
Now repeat after me


Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not
Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not

The Pledge of Allegiance is not a legally-binding oath.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Ramsnake
Now repeat after me


Declaration of Independence is a Historical Document whereas Pledge Of Alleg. is an Oath Doesnt Matter if the DOI had god in it or not

The Pledge of Allegiance is not a legally-binding oath.

Then what's the purpose of saying it?