Is the F-35 worth it?

[bononos]

I don't think the F-35 is worth it. Get F-22s or settle for F-15Es.

Despite its costs the F35 is cheaper than the F22. In fact in the US the F35 program got its momentum for being the cheap(er) alternative to the F22.

 

[0roo0roo]

O2 issues now

not upgraded to use latest weapons the other planes are using until a year or two in the future either.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/raptor-combat-finally/
well, at least this money isn't used to make stuff in china

 

[futuristicmonkey]

I thought the US won't sell the F22?

 

[sdifox]

you know we are not even getting the engine right?

This is Canada we are talking about, we buy old dilapidated British subs that can't submerge and or will catch fire, then buy US torpedoes that can't be fired in a British sub.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

The CF-18s are getting old but Canada really doesn't need an advanced stealth fighter to handle what the air force looks after. Mostly medium duty patrol and ground assault. It would be cheaper to simply buy new F-18s, or opt for an alternative such as the F-16 or Eurofighter Typhoon, which come in at half the price of the F-35.

Probably doesn't, but they did have issues with interacting with other nations recently during their bombing runs in Libya.

I think the key issue is range. Neither airplane, even with bags, have the range of a F-35. Also, it's more expensive to operate the Typhoon than it is the F-35. The typhoon costs $120million/plane! With economics of scale, the F-35 can dip below the $100million/plane mark (currently $122million/plane). Also the Typhoon doesn't have great a2g capability. It needed support from Tornado's to drop small bombs in Libya. It's planned AESA isn't even ready yet.

If one just wants to use an aircraft for patrols, the F-16 would be sufficient. If they want certain commonality, then the F/A-18E/F would be more cost effective (similar to what Australia is doing, but the Electronics warfare version EA-18 costs as much, if not more than an F-35.. of which Australia has financed for 6 aircraft for $300million total + the initial $67million per aircraft, which EASILY puts it in the range of the F-35 price range.. Also Australia bought 12 F/A-18F's wired for future EF-18 fitment.. this wiring costed $38million per aircraft on top of the $67million cost per aircraft).


Also, that whole GAO report on the next 55 years operating costs for the entire F-35 fleet is laughable. ya sure 1.45 trillion. I want to see if they did such a thing in the 50's for the F-4's, and see if the legacy century series can be newly built instead. Who knows what the global political climate and technology advancement is in the next 55 years. That report is a complete slant.

One of the F-35's advantage is its logistics. It was designed with logistical support in mind, so the down time is significantly reduced. It uses air pressure to deploy weapons, and not tiny charges. You don't have to deal with an entire shipment and handling of explosive weapon release charges with the F-35.

In short, the F-35 is a bargain for its capability compared to gen4 aircraft. For essentially the same price, you get far more capability, and superior logistical support, and a common aircraft for many roles across many nations and branches of the military; which means simpler logistics... which in the end as logistics of the aircraft matures, price will decrease to maintain the aircraft. F-15K and SG's costs over $100million each. If Canada or USA were to buy newly-built F-15E's w/ all the goodies, it'll cost in excess of $100million per plane.

 

[QuantumPion]

I thought the US won't sell the F22?

Yeah the main point of the F35 was to have a crappier, cheaper, lower-tech fighter to sell to everyone else (because it will still probably end up being better than what they have). The F22 is already a generation ahead of the F35 which isn't even done yet. But they costs like 3-4x as much.

 

[Imp]

I don't know why the hell we bother with anything but infantry and support to infantry.

Our army is about 80-120k strong including reserves and rear-echelon. Any REAL threat without the US of A leading the way and doing 95% of the work, and we'll be walked right over.

Last few times Canada's "Air Force" was deployed, less than 15 fighters were sent - we sent like 6 to Libya, and 15 (?) to Kosovo.

We had to buy 5 or 6 Chinooks from the US while in theatre in Afghanistan. Think we bought our tanks from Germany, sorry, leased them too because our circa-1970s ones didn't have A/C too.

The submarines are the absolute stupidest shit ever. Billions on second-hand diesel engine subs that had to be gutted and still don't work.

Dreams of grandeur...

 

[lothar]

Giving the fact that Russia is trying to assert itself at the North Pole, I think Canada needs all the military it can get to claim what is rightly theirs.
But hey...If Canada wants to sit back while Russia rolls all over them, who cares? That's their own business.

 

[Imp]

Giving the fact that Russia is trying to assert itself at the North Pole, I think Canada needs all the military it can get to claim what is rightly theirs.
But hey...If Canada wants to sit back while Russia rolls all over them, who cares? That's their own business.

Russia better watch it, we'll fight them back with our 4 subs, almost all in dry-dock being refitted and only one capable of firing torpedoes, or something like that. And we have a bunch of destroyers, some F-18s... Even if we conscripted every able-bodied adult from our 30 million strong population, I'm going to guess that Russia's 1 million strong army plus hoardes of conscripts would walk all over us.

Thank god for the United States...

Sorry, I love Canada's military and almost enlisted, still kind of want to, but... seriously.

 

[OlafSicky]

Giving the fact that Russia is trying to assert itself at the North Pole, I think Canada needs all the military it can get to claim what is rightly theirs.
But hey...If Canada wants to sit back while Russia rolls all over them, who cares? That's their own business.

Russian military is corrupt and filled with drunks and morons on starvation diets because they can't afford food. Their military might is a dream, they have no logistical capabilities. I guess they could invade Canada because of their superior navy but I doubt they could have any sort of significant foothold. Any bottom of the barrel F16 would be good enough for 10 of their current gen or even next gen planes. What Canada needs if quickly deploy able military, helicopters good AA and ships to patrol the coast,
and a secret contingent of suicide beavers:ninja: willing and able to take out the enemy.

 

[gevorg]

Russian military is corrupt and filled with drunks and morons on starvation diets because they can't afford food. Their military might is a dream, they have no logistical capabilities. I guess they could invade Canada because of their superior navy but I doubt they could have any sort of significant foothold. Any bottom of the barrel F16 would be good enough for 10 of their current gen or even next gen planes. What Canada needs if quickly deploy able military, helicopters good AA and ships to patrol the coast,
and a secret contingent of suicide beavers:ninja: willing and able to take out the enemy.

you're stuck in the 1990s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnnMNF-UKxE

 

[Pia]

I don't think moose have effective AA against whatever Canada has now, so no reason to get new planes.

 

[alent1234]

Russian military is corrupt and filled with drunks and morons on starvation diets because they can't afford food. Their military might is a dream, they have no logistical capabilities. I guess they could invade Canada because of their superior navy but I doubt they could have any sort of significant foothold. Any bottom of the barrel F16 would be good enough for 10 of their current gen or even next gen planes. What Canada needs if quickly deploy able military, helicopters good AA and ships to patrol the coast,
and a secret contingent of suicide beavers:ninja: willing and able to take out the enemy.

but they beat georgia a few years back. and after years of fighting they finally beat Chechnya

 

[ichy]

Aren't the F-22's like 3 times the price AND giant piles of junk? Like an entire fleet grounded kind of junk?

The F-22 is by far the most capable fighter in the world, although unfortunately it sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

The cost of these sorts of things is hard to figure out. Part of the reason the F-22 is so expensive is that you're amortizing it's huge R&D costs over a very small production run. The F-35 should theoretically be cheaper (one engine vs. two, smaller plane, etc etc) but first you have to spend tens of billions of dollars to develop the damned thing.

IMO the US should've never bothered with the JSF project. Buy more F-22s and upgraded versions of older fighters like the F-16 and F-15E. The electronic gadgetry that you put into planes is just as important if not more so than the actual airframe nowadays.

 

[unokitty]

"During World War II, expensive battleships were overwhelmed by swarms of cheap aircraft carrying cheap bombs or torpedos. In exactly the same way, the F-35 will be overwhelmed by cheap drones carrying cheap missiles, before or after it becomes operational."

From, As drones rise, a manned fighter falls.

Looks like Canada may be on to something.

Uno

 

[rudder]

I don't think the F-35 is worth it. Get F-22s or settle for F-15Es.

Save the money at get F-16's. The F-35 defense secrets have likley already been obtained by unfriendlies. Save the money on the plane and use it for jet fuel and get the pilots more stick time.