Is the GTX 970 a 256bit card or not? I bought it because it was 256 bit.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

kasakka

Senior member
Mar 16, 2013
334
1
81
Oh come on Keys. NV has a ton of great cards these days, and they have earned their dominant market share...but recommending a 970 to somebody with all the smoke around that card is a disservice. NV was deceptive about the memory and the RoP's, and the card didn't really thrive until it got some serious driver support. What's going to happen when that driver support dries up in 12-18 mos when the next gen comes out? At least tell the OP to hold out for 980 price drops (as I did), there is no reason to recommend 970 to anybody right now unless the price drops through the floor on it (say something like <= r9 290 prices).


As far as I'm concerned, the issues with the 970 VRAM have largely been fixed. I have only experienced ONE game (Shadow of Mordor, which is a known VRAM hog anyway) having issues with my 970 SLI and that got a lot less noticeable a few driver versions ago - which made the .5 GB section faster. Especially with a single 970 you will run into GPU performance limitations far before running into VRAM issues.

Unless the 980 sees drastic price drops it's still a bad buy. The 970 in most cases can get fairly similar performance but is a lot cheaper. Used 980s might be a good choice though.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
What do you mean? The GTX970 is a powerful card. A great card. There is absolutely no disservice whatsoever recommending one of them. Kepler is receiving performance improving drivers. One was just released. Nvidia surely have been more focused on Maxwell, but a new driver release means they aren't done with Kepler. And how long ago was Kepler released?
Also, today, everyone knows or will be told, at least in this forum, what the 970 actually has under the hood. Like we just did. 970 is a great card and unless you play BF4 cranked at 4K, you won't go over 3.5GB very often, if ever. Do you disagree?

I didn't say that 970 wasn't powerful, and in fact I think that many of its issues have been overblown. However, I also think that you're glossing over the driver issue. The 970 had a pretty severe dropoff in performance until driver fixes came out...but weren't those fixes just for specific games? Based upon their recent driver optimizations, in 12-18 months NV will stop optimizing games on gtx 970 and start focusing on the "new" generation. What happens then? GTX 980 is significantly faster, or even maybe some AMD cards would be better options.

Sure, the 980 is more expensive today, but wait a week or 2 at least and see what the market brings. I think that there's a reasonable chance that the 980 gets a very large price drop, potentially bringing it with $50-75 of the 970. If that doesn't happen, and 970 drops down to $200-250, then buy the 970 if you prefer NV. But if 970 holds over $300, and 980 goes down to $375, then it's hard not to recommend that. And we'll know all of it in just a couple of weeks, so why not encourage the OP to wait? Also, this "970 has issues" drama is all over the internet, when it comes to selling a 980 you'll get a significant premium over 970.
 

iiiankiii

Senior member
Apr 4, 2008
759
47
91
What do you mean? The GTX970 is a powerful card. A great card. There is absolutely no disservice whatsoever recommending one of them. Kepler is receiving performance improving drivers. One was just released. Nvidia surely have been more focused on Maxwell, but a new driver release means they aren't done with Kepler. And how long ago was Kepler released?
Also, today, everyone knows or will be told, at least in this forum, what the 970 actually has under the hood. Like we just did. 970 is a great card and unless you play BF4 cranked at 4K, you won't go over 3.5GB very often, if ever. Do you disagree?

Agreed. Unless you're using SLI and running 4k, you going to hit other bottlenecks before the VRAM buffer. 3.5GB is fine for 1080p for now. Of course, there are some exception. Some games do push beyond the 3.5GB without being bottlenecked by raw processing power. When it does, the performance will tank. Bottomline, I wouldn't recommend 4k gaming with GTX 970 SLI because of the 3.5GB.

BUT, the disservice was Nvidia not telling the public about the correct specs of the GTX 970 (less ROP and funky memory structure) in a timely manner (intentional or not, it's still negligence). People have the right to be a bit upset at that.

In the case of the OP, the GTX 970 is a fine card for 1080p and most 1440p games. Memory bus speed ain't that important.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
I didn't say that 970 wasn't powerful, and in fact I think that many of its issues have been overblown. However, I also think that you're glossing over the driver issue. The 970 had a pretty severe dropoff in performance until driver fixes came out...but weren't those fixes just for specific games? Based upon their recent driver optimizations, in 12-18 months NV will stop optimizing games on gtx 970 and start focusing on the "new" generation. What happens then? GTX 980 is significantly faster, or even maybe some AMD cards would be better options.

This is my concern. It's now a great card for current games with its updated drivers.

But since you can't disable use of the 0.5 GB, it's potentially a worse card than a 3.5 GB card would be for games coming out in 1-2 years when driver support shifts to a lower priority.

If you buy a new card every year you have nothing to worry about. I don't, so I'd buy a 960, 980 or 980ti but not a 970.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Agreed. Unless you're using SLI and running 4k, you going to hit other bottlenecks before the VRAM buffer. 3.5GB is fine for 1080p for now. Of course, there are some exception. Some games do push beyond the 3.5GB without being bottlenecked by raw processing power. When it does, the performance will tank. Bottomline, I wouldn't recommend 4k gaming with GTX 970 SLI because of the 3.5GB.

BUT, the disservice was Nvidia not telling the public about the correct specs of the GTX 970 (less ROP and funky memory structure) in a timely manner (intentional or not, it's still negligence). People have the right to be a bit upset at that.

In the case of the OP, the GTX 970 is a fine card for 1080p and most 1440p games. Memory bus speed ain't that important.

Agree with everything you said here.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
Personally I wouldn't get the gtx 970. Wouldn't even want to worry about the risk down the road. I'd just wait for fiji to drop and get the gtx 980 if you like nvidia. If you like amd get the 390x.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
Personally I wouldn't get the gtx 970. Wouldn't even want to worry about the risk down the road. I'd just wait for fiji to drop and get the gtx 980 if you like nvidia. If you like amd get the 390x.

the 970 is a good performer for the money and it's a lot cheaper than the 980, it's a solid choice, the competition from AMD like the 290X don't really offer all the same characteristics (power efficiency, maxwell 2-gameworks optimization), so for some people the 970 is a very good choice regardless,

consider it a 3.5GB card, most current games have a hard time reaching that, specially for what I think most 970s are used (1080-1440P), also if AMD is really going to release a Titan X competitor with 4GB of ram, you would think a much slower card like the 970 would be well served with 3.5GB? but we also have the rumors of all the 390s (290s rebrand) using 8GB, which makes no sense if Fury is limited to 4GB

I would consider the 970 a 224bits card effectively, even if it have 256bit physical, the best case scenario for the 970 as far as I know is ignoring the 32bit 512MB and working as 224bit 3.5GB max
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
Again the problem is not having only 3.5GB, it is that last 512 MB that is problematic. If a game engine (or the driver) doesn't specifically know about the card then it may use the entire block of memory without any special considerations. So you will either have to hope Nvidia is always on top of driver tweaks or every game is 970 aware. This does not sound like a good situation to be in going forward, why not eliminate the possibility and simply buy a 980 or 290x.

Now keep in mind some people don't notice or care about pauses/stuttering so it may not bother you. I personally am sensitive to it because one you see it you cannot unsee. BTW Nvidia has said themselves that the card was designed so the software engineers would "work around" the memory configuration so they are well aware of the limitations.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
I think there is a chance the 970 to 290X will become like the the 680 to 7970 once Pascal hits, if not from Maxwell unoptimizing then from the 3.5GB stuff to be sure.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,012
2,282
136
Again the problem is not having only 3.5GB, it is that last 512 MB that is problematic. If a game engine (or the driver) doesn't specifically know about the card then it may use the entire block of memory without any special considerations.
No more of a problem than it would be for a 3gb 780ti, in fact better due to the slightly more vram. The last .5gb segment is still faster than system ram. So anything that would hobble a 970 due to vram limitations would do the same for a 780ti. The very limited examples (mordor?) showing the 970 in trouble due to the vram may not necessarily apply in the same manner today with driver refinements since the problem came to light. They still may do, but if so, lets see some recent examples. I suspect that since this has been such a big issue, people/reviewers would still be falling over themselves trying to replicate the problem. Just amazed there has been virtually nothing on this in last few months since the issue was brought to light. In meantime, 970 chugs along performing very well in all recent games up to 1440p.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
No more of a problem than it would be for a 3gb 780ti, in fact better due to the slightly more vram. The last .5gb segment is still faster than system ram.
The use of heuristics to determine which resources to allocate to which memory segment, though the correct solution in this case, means that the real world performance impact is going to vary on a game-by-game basis. If NVIDIA&#8217;s heuristics and driver team do their job correctly, then the performance impact versus a theoretical single-segment 4GB card should only be a few percent. Even in cases where the entire 4GB space is filled with in-use resources, picking resources that don&#8217;t need to be accessed frequently can sufficiently hide the lack of bandwidth from the 512MB segment. This is after all just a permutation on basic caching principles.
And if Nvidia doesn't "do their job" which is code for the driver is not game aware then the game will potentially runs poorly.
The worst case scenario on the other hand would be to have the NVIDIA heuristics fail, or alternatively ending up with a workload where no great solution exists, and over 3.5GB of resources must be repeatedly and heavily accessed. In this case there is certainly the potential for performance to crumple, especially if accessing resources in the slow segment is a blocking action. And in this case the GTX 970 would still perform better than a true 3.5GB card since the slow segment is still much faster than system memory, but it&#8217;s nonetheless significantly slower than the 3.5GB segment as well.
The bolded is actually not true. The 512MB block is of course faster than system RAM, but the game engine treats system RAM and GPU RAM differently it won't treat the last memory block differently. This is exactly why the 970 stutters and pauses in situations where the 980 does not.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,012
2,282
136
The bolded is actually not true. The 512MB block is of course faster than system RAM, but the game engine treats system RAM and GPU RAM differently it won't treat the last memory block differently. This is exactly why the 970 stutters and pauses in situations where the 980 does not.
I dont believe that at all. Sure the game engine may differentiate between system ram and vram, but on driver side of things, the GPU should have plenty of room to handle memory usage regardless of what the game dictates to it. In some titles that go above 3.5gb it was very hard to push the 970 past that point (unless you use silly settings that may cripple it anyway regardless of vram). Which yes, may have been a sign that Nvidia did indeed anticipate some problem there. But that is not yet "exactly why the 970 stutters and pauses in situations where the 980 does not".

With some titles (ie Mordor, ACU) where it was difficult to pass 3.5gb, a later driver (347.52) seems to have slightly upped that limit and cured the stutter where it can pass it more easily with less of a problem. So seems plenty of room for refinements on driver side of things. Bottom line, no one knows for certain to what extent the 970's stuttering performance was from its 3.5 + .5gb design or the card running out of GPU power when pushed in conjunction with poor driver optimization for its unique design.

Still looking for an update to this. It remains a juicy story that should entice many sites or individuals to experiment further... so where are new benches, FCATs, new titles tested since? As the 780 had no problem with its 3gb pushed to the limits in Mordor, I dont think the 970 will either with its 3.5gb. It may have been a temporary problem early on that was largely resolved.. unless someone brings fresh evidence to the contrary.
 
Last edited:

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
I base my no recommendation of the 970 in part by what JHH said:
GTX 970 is a 4GB card. However, the upper 512MB of the additional 1GB is segmented and has reduced bandwidth. This is a good design because we were able to add an additional 1GB for GTX 970 and our software engineers can keep less frequently used data in the 512MB segment.
No way I am going to buy a card that relies on software to specifically get around a badly designed memory system. I also don't appreciate that JHH claims that Nvidia "invented a new memory architecture" this is simply not true they used the same die harvesting and memory structure on previous cards.

Either way I think enough info has been presented on both sides of the issue for people to make an informed decision.
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
I base my no recommendation of the 970 in part by what JHH said:



No way I am going to buy a card that relies on software to specifically get around a badly designed memory system. I also don't appreciate that JHH claims that Nvidia "invented a new memory architecture" this is simply not true they used the same die harvesting and memory structure on previous cards.



Either way I think enough info has been presented on both sides of the issue for people to make an informed decision.


Maybe it is due to the fact that it can still work while being sorta broken, maybe the new uarch lead to its flexibility?
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
What flexibility the die harvesting and segmented memory? That is not new at all some of the 6xx cards had it.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
No way I am going to buy a card that relies on software to specifically get around a badly designed memory system.

Why not? You have bought many cards that rely on software to do everything else. To say what you said above is quite hypocritical, even if you don't realize it. Software carries out all GPU functions. Tells the hardware what to do.
By your logic, you'll never buy another GPU from this moment forward.
Hope you like knitting.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Why not? You have bought many cards that rely on software to do everything else. To say what you said above is quite hypocritical, even if you don't realize it. Software carries out all GPU functions. Tells the hardware what to do.
By your logic, you'll never buy another GPU from this moment forward.
Hope you like knitting.

That's a bit of a strawman. Other cards in this GPU family don't need extra coding to avoid unsafe use of a bad area of their VRAM.

The 970 will continue to get the basic GPU family support for years, but how long will nvidia do the extra work specific to this one card? Once sales have stopped they have much less incentive to spend the extra developer time.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
That's a bit of a strawman.
He's just going to attack and throw insults my way because he's got nothing useful to counter with. As I said, there is enough info in this thread for people to make up their own minds about the 970.
 

JeffMD

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2002
2,026
19
81
That was a long time ago. The way things stand for drivers right now:

Stability
AMD >>> Nvidia

After the shiat storm that was witcher 3 and AMDs lack of specific drivers, your gonna spout this? I have had zero stability issues on my 970gtx, playing all the new games.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
You'll have plenty of time between pauses on a 970 to knit some nice things.

Are we supposed to take you seriously after comments like this? I really hope you don't think so. I don't even know if you said this with a straight face or were just kidding. And only a comment on the knitting because you didn't want to touch the rest of my post. Classic.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
I didn't take your comment seriously after the knitting nonsense. DaveSimmons addressed the other points perfectly go back and read his post again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |