Is the M4/M16 outclassed on the modern battlefield?

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: maluckey
JOS,

I see where above that you mentioned the 870. To me, itt's the ultimate in crowd control! You don't even need to fire it. In one instance I just racked it and watched in amazement as all I could see was assholes and elbows sprinting off! Good fun

of course in les than a minute, the bark of AK's also caught my attention and the fun changed to fun of a different kind.

It's a nice thing to have when searching and yes, it does work wonders in crowd control. We are among the few that actually do carry shotguns in every platoon.

The only reason why the G3 is my favourite is because of the versatility, we have fairly simple 4x red point sights mounted on them, you can shoot the tail of a rat at 100m with that, it's also a great close combat rifle, smaller than most other rifles of the same caliber and even some of the 5.56 like the M4.

Depending on what mission we're on it's usually retreat, regroup, assessment of the situation and orders, search and destroy.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Isnt the .50 cal machine gun a WWI design? I dont put much weight into the age of the system provided it works.

That said I dont have any experience with these weapons and thus cant say whether or not the jamming issue is still there from Vietnam.

One thing though, how many marines fire their weapons from the hip? Guy seemed to have watched way too many war movies imo.

Oooo.... Check this out. Barrett .50 Cal

Definitely an upgrade from the WWI models.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: Genx87
Isnt the .50 cal machine gun a WWI design? I dont put much weight into the age of the system provided it works.

That said I dont have any experience with these weapons and thus cant say whether or not the jamming issue is still there from Vietnam.

One thing though, how many marines fire their weapons from the hip? Guy seemed to have watched way too many war movies imo.

Oooo.... Check this out. Barrett .50 Cal

Definitely an upgrade from the WWI models.

What would you use it for though, it's a small non fragmentation bullet that does not penetrate armor, compared to the 40mm it's worthless, you can take out ten men with one shot when using fragmentation and it will pierce most armor.

As if that wasn't enough, you'll have to fire 50 shots max and then wait for it to cool down.

It's really a POS gun in all areas, a simple 7.62 machine gun would be just as effective and you could fire several hundreds of rounds without having any waiting periods.

 

[Tookie123]

HK 416 in action. Looks awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...M&mode=related&search=

 

[maluckey]

Oooo.... Check this out. Barrett .50 Cal

It is very cool:thumbsup: and effective for it's intended use. Not very All-Around useful though

The M24A3 (8.6 x 70), and the M40 have flatter trajectory, slightly better cyclic rates and better barrel wear. Both are also sub 1 minute rifles out fo the box, with the M40 easily being a sub .5 minute rirle with match ammunition. Of course neither of them have the penetration power of the BMG round against armor.



Edited to correct my typically rotten typing and to metion that "Armor" also includes light Armored vehicles and level 3 man-armor.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

maluckey, you don't plink BMG's against real armor, you wipe them out with LAW's.

At least we do that.

Use guns for people and vehicals and enough explosive power to wipe out any armored vehicle you are shooting at, if you fail they usually have the firepower to wipe out an entire company.

Your experiences may differ from mine and this is interesting considering we are basically in the same shit.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
maluckey, you don't plink BMG's against real armor, you wipe them out with LAW's.

At least we do that.

Use guns for people and vehicals and enough explosive power to wipe out any armored vehicle you are shooting at, if you fail they usually have the firepower to wipe out an entire company.

Your experiences may differ from mine and this is interesting considering we are basically in the same shit.

I smacked them with TROUTs

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I like my G3 with the P226 as my sidearm, an 870 when needed and an L96A1.

The G3 is 7.62 while the M16 is 5.56.

If you're looking for newer and better guns then look no further than Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland.

fixed that for you

I strongly disagree, French weaponry is superiour to anything Germany or Switzerland has to offer for combat missions. Belgian weapons are of course the same Weaponry that is presented in France since they share factories. in the words of the French... Le Duh.

Pretty much all the best military small arms come out of FN, HK, or SIG. The French haven't designed and built anything of note since the FAMAS which isn't all that fantastic IMO.

I'll just go right ahead and disagree with you on that.

FN and HK is crap, complete and utter crap, Sig Sauer makes some nice pistols like the P226 which is ok in reliability.

The G3 is my choice even though it's heavier because both the weapon and the ammo is more reliable, if i'd have gone for a 5.56 carbine i'd look into the French arsenal.

This is my experience though, yours may differ, where have you been deployed and how much have you fired your weapon in a combat zone?

I'm curious if you have any firearms experience outside of Counterstrike. If you did you might know that the G3 is an HK designed weapon. Also, to my knowledge the UK doesn't actively field their G3 copies any more.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I like my G3 with the P226 as my sidearm, an 870 when needed and an L96A1.

The G3 is 7.62 while the M16 is 5.56.

If you're looking for newer and better guns then look no further than Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland.

fixed that for you

I strongly disagree, French weaponry is superiour to anything Germany or Switzerland has to offer for combat missions. Belgian weapons are of course the same Weaponry that is presented in France since they share factories. in the words of the French... Le Duh.

Pretty much all the best military small arms come out of FN, HK, or SIG. The French haven't designed and built anything of note since the FAMAS which isn't all that fantastic IMO.

I'll just go right ahead and disagree with you on that.

FN and HK is crap, complete and utter crap, Sig Sauer makes some nice pistols like the P226 which is ok in reliability.

The G3 is my choice even though it's heavier because both the weapon and the ammo is more reliable, if i'd have gone for a 5.56 carbine i'd look into the French arsenal.

This is my experience though, yours may differ, where have you been deployed and how much have you fired your weapon in a combat zone?

I'm curious if you have any firearms experience outside of Counterstrike. If you did you might know that the G3 is an HK designed weapon. Also, to my knowledge the UK doesn't actively field their G3 copies any more.

The G3 isn't really actively fielded more than the 870.

Both are in our arsenal.

I'm not going to go into a debate where i'll have no chance of winning because i cannot actually tell you anything more than i have already said.

I tried to tell you that your experience may differ as a nice way out but you had to fuck with me, you pathetic little piece of shit.

I'll ignore you from now on.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I like my G3 with the P226 as my sidearm, an 870 when needed and an L96A1.

The G3 is 7.62 while the M16 is 5.56.

If you're looking for newer and better guns then look no further than Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland.

fixed that for you

I strongly disagree, French weaponry is superiour to anything Germany or Switzerland has to offer for combat missions. Belgian weapons are of course the same Weaponry that is presented in France since they share factories. in the words of the French... Le Duh.

Pretty much all the best military small arms come out of FN, HK, or SIG. The French haven't designed and built anything of note since the FAMAS which isn't all that fantastic IMO.

I'll just go right ahead and disagree with you on that.

FN and HK is crap, complete and utter crap, Sig Sauer makes some nice pistols like the P226 which is ok in reliability.

The G3 is my choice even though it's heavier because both the weapon and the ammo is more reliable, if i'd have gone for a 5.56 carbine i'd look into the French arsenal.

This is my experience though, yours may differ, where have you been deployed and how much have you fired your weapon in a combat zone?

I'm curious if you have any firearms experience outside of Counterstrike. If you did you might know that the G3 is an HK designed weapon. Also, to my knowledge the UK doesn't actively field their G3 copies any more.

The G3 isn't really actively fielded more than the 870.

Both are in our arsenal.

I'm not going to go into a debate where i'll have no chance of winning because i cannot actually tell you anything more than i have already said.

I tried to tell you that your experience may differ as a nice way out but you had to fuck with me, you pathetic little piece of shit.

I'll ignore you from now on.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I like my G3 with the P226 as my sidearm, an 870 when needed and an L96A1.

The G3 is 7.62 while the M16 is 5.56.

If you're looking for newer and better guns then look no further than Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland.

fixed that for you

I strongly disagree, French weaponry is superiour to anything Germany or Switzerland has to offer for combat missions. Belgian weapons are of course the same Weaponry that is presented in France since they share factories. in the words of the French... Le Duh.

Pretty much all the best military small arms come out of FN, HK, or SIG. The French haven't designed and built anything of note since the FAMAS which isn't all that fantastic IMO.

I'll just go right ahead and disagree with you on that.

FN and HK is crap, complete and utter crap, Sig Sauer makes some nice pistols like the P226 which is ok in reliability.

The G3 is my choice even though it's heavier because both the weapon and the ammo is more reliable, if i'd have gone for a 5.56 carbine i'd look into the French arsenal.

This is my experience though, yours may differ, where have you been deployed and how much have you fired your weapon in a combat zone?

I'm curious if you have any firearms experience outside of Counterstrike. If you did you might know that the G3 is an HK designed weapon. Also, to my knowledge the UK doesn't actively field their G3 copies any more.

The G3 isn't really actively fielded more than the 870.

Both are in our arsenal.

I'm not going to go into a debate where i'll have no chance of winning because i cannot actually tell you anything more than i have already said.

I tried to tell you that your experience may differ as a nice way out but you had to fuck with me, you pathetic little piece of shit.

I'll ignore you from now on.

John of Sheffield doesn't actually know anything about guns. He doesn't even think anyone should have them. It is hilarious that he spent 3 posts expounding on how much he likes his G3 after saying that "HK sucks."

I love my G3, and my HK53, and my HK93, and my USP tactical, and my USP compact. HK rules. Wish I could get a UMP and a G36.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I like my G3 with the P226 as my sidearm, an 870 when needed and an L96A1.

The G3 is 7.62 while the M16 is 5.56.

If you're looking for newer and better guns then look no further than Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland.

fixed that for you

I strongly disagree, French weaponry is superiour to anything Germany or Switzerland has to offer for combat missions. Belgian weapons are of course the same Weaponry that is presented in France since they share factories. in the words of the French... Le Duh.

Pretty much all the best military small arms come out of FN, HK, or SIG. The French haven't designed and built anything of note since the FAMAS which isn't all that fantastic IMO.

I'll just go right ahead and disagree with you on that.

FN and HK is crap, complete and utter crap, Sig Sauer makes some nice pistols like the P226 which is ok in reliability.

The G3 is my choice even though it's heavier because both the weapon and the ammo is more reliable, if i'd have gone for a 5.56 carbine i'd look into the French arsenal.

This is my experience though, yours may differ, where have you been deployed and how much have you fired your weapon in a combat zone?

I'm curious if you have any firearms experience outside of Counterstrike. If you did you might know that the G3 is an HK designed weapon. Also, to my knowledge the UK doesn't actively field their G3 copies any more.

The G3 isn't really actively fielded more than the 870.

Both are in our arsenal.

I'm not going to go into a debate where i'll have no chance of winning because i cannot actually tell you anything more than i have already said.

I tried to tell you that your experience may differ as a nice way out but you had to fuck with me, you pathetic little piece of shit.

I'll ignore you from now on.

John of Sheffield doesn't actually know anything about guns. He doesn't even think anyone should have them. It is hilarious that he spent 3 posts expounding on how much he likes his G3 after saying that "HK sucks."

I love my G3, and my HK53, and my HK93, and my USP tactical, and my USP compact. HK rules. Wish I could get a UMP and a G36.

That's one of the reasons I engaged him. He clearly has zero idea what he is talking about and managed to make a fool of himself yet again.

I :heart: German and Belgian guns.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

As usual i stand by my words and don't back down because the nancy boys get their panties unsettled.

Get used to that, you'll see it a lot.

The G3 isn't a HK design, it's a Spanish design which you numbnuts would know if you knew anything about the G3, it has been made by HK though, none of ours are.

Nick, if someone insults me i'll insult them back, it's not really any more difficult than that.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
As usual i stand by my words and don't back down because the nancy boys get their panties unsettled.

Get used to that, you'll see it a lot.

The G3 isn't a HK design, it's a Spanish design which you numbnuts would know if you knew anything about the G3, it has been made by HK though, none of ours are.

Nick, if someone insults me i'll insult them back, it's not really any more difficult than that.

The CETME rifle was designed by German firearm engineers who went to work for Spain after WWII. The rifle itself was heavily modeled after the operation of the STG45.

The Spaniards didn't come up with it.

I even own one: Text

Also, guess who the UK licensed their G3 production from. Hint.....not the Spanish.

 

[jonks]

Am I the first to ask if this is a P&N thread? Sounds like a gun hobbyist forum. Shouldn't this be in the Hardware and Tech forum under 'offensive peripheral devices'?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
As usual i stand by my words and don't back down because the nancy boys get their panties unsettled.

Get used to that, you'll see it a lot.

The G3 isn't a HK design, it's a Spanish design which you numbnuts would know if you knew anything about the G3, it has been made by HK though, none of ours are.

Nick, if someone insults me i'll insult them back, it's not really any more difficult than that.

The CETME rifle was designed by German firearm engineers who went to work for Spain after WWII. The rifle itself was heavily modeled after the operation of the STG45.

The Spaniards didn't come up with it.

I even own one: Text

Also, guess who the UK licensed their G3 production from. Hint.....not the Spanish.

While all well and true i fail to see your point, you were wrong in your initial statement and yeah, it's not HK that supplies the G3 either, so you admit that you were wrong about that, that is great, you have gained a tad of respect from me for doing so.

Our G3's are not made anywhere but France, guess why i mentioned France in the very first post i made saying that they do make great weapons.

It's cool though, you couldn't possibly know that, but maybe when i give you a hint in the future you'll look into it instead of dismissing me?

Take care.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
As usual i stand by my words and don't back down because the nancy boys get their panties unsettled.

Get used to that, you'll see it a lot.

The G3 isn't a HK design, it's a Spanish design which you numbnuts would know if you knew anything about the G3, it has been made by HK though, none of ours are.

Nick, if someone insults me i'll insult them back, it's not really any more difficult than that.

The CETME rifle was designed by German firearm engineers who went to work for Spain after WWII. The rifle itself was heavily modeled after the operation of the STG45.

The Spaniards didn't come up with it.

I even own one: Text

Also, guess who the UK licensed their G3 production from. Hint.....not the Spanish.

While all well and true i fail to see your point, you were wrong in your initial statement and yeah, it's not HK that supplies the G3 either, so you admit that you were wrong about that, that is great, you have gained a tad of respect from me for doing so.

Our G3's are not made anywhere but France, guess why i mentioned France in the very first post i made saying that they do make great weapons.

It's cool though, you couldn't possibly know that, but maybe when i give you a hint in the future you'll look into it instead of dismissing me?

Take care.

Many countries licensed the G3 (which is originally a German designation BTW) from HK for domestic production. This includes the French and numerous other nations that made G3 clones. The G3 was a refinement of the CETME rifle (designed by Germans) which itself was developed off another German gun. Saying the Spanish made the G3 would be like the US shooting off V2 rockets after WWII and trying to act like we actually developed them.

As I said previously...the French haven't designed and built any remarkable firearm besides perhaps the FAMAS and certainly don't stand up to what routinely comes out of FN or HK.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
As usual i stand by my words and don't back down because the nancy boys get their panties unsettled.

Get used to that, you'll see it a lot.

The G3 isn't a HK design, it's a Spanish design which you numbnuts would know if you knew anything about the G3, it has been made by HK though, none of ours are.

Nick, if someone insults me i'll insult them back, it's not really any more difficult than that.

The CETME rifle was designed by German firearm engineers who went to work for Spain after WWII. The rifle itself was heavily modeled after the operation of the STG45.

The Spaniards didn't come up with it.

I even own one: Text

Also, guess who the UK licensed their G3 production from. Hint.....not the Spanish.

While all well and true i fail to see your point, you were wrong in your initial statement and yeah, it's not HK that supplies the G3 either, so you admit that you were wrong about that, that is great, you have gained a tad of respect from me for doing so.

Our G3's are not made anywhere but France, guess why i mentioned France in the very first post i made saying that they do make great weapons.

It's cool though, you couldn't possibly know that, but maybe when i give you a hint in the future you'll look into it instead of dismissing me?

Take care.

Many countries licensed the G3 (which is originally a German designation BTW) from HK for domestic production. This includes the French and numerous other nations that made G3 clones. The G3 was a refinement of the CETME rifle (designed by Germans) which itself was developed off another German gun. Saying the Spanish made the G3 would be like the US shooting off V2 rockets after WWII and trying to act like we actually developed them.

As I said previously...the French haven't designed and built any remarkable firearm besides perhaps the FAMAS and certainly don't stand up to what routinely comes out of FN or HK.

playing on your use of the word "remarkable", i will invoke the name of the infamous french machine gun used and despised by american troops during WWI - "chauchat".

 

[maluckey]

Am I the first to ask if this is a P&N thread? Sounds like a gun hobbyist forum. Shouldn't this be in the Hardware and Tech forum under 'offensive peripheral devices'?

Keep my Mother in-Law out of this!! :frown: